Young Avengers Appreciation 2020

[Digifiend]

Tbh it’s weird that a lot of characters who are dating didn’t have their dates: Rhodey (Carol), Sky (Johnny), Sharon? (Cap), Some random chick Tony would bring, Moondragon (Phyla), Groot, Gamora, Taina Miranda (Robbie), also surprised Nadia, Scott, Blue Marvel, Monica, Voodoo (who’s still with Wanda I assume?) aren’t there

If Cassie brought Scott and Nadia along, then a new question comes up - where are Janet, GIRL, and the Champions. The line had to be drawn somewhere.

[Drops Of Venus]

The second wedding was beautiful and I have almost no complaints. ALMOST!

spoilers:

I'm glad they ended up giving them a jewish wedding, AND also an alien wedding, which is not something I was expecting. I mean, only Billy and Teddy would need FOUR different people to officiate their wedding, but I love that about them. Billy being acknowledged as their ''Merlin'' was nice and a clever way to make the Arthurian parallels come full circle. THEIR LAST NAMES ARE OFFICIALLY KAPLAN-ALTMAN NOW, TO WHICH I SAY FUCK YEAH! It's what I've always wanted for them. That spread with all the guests was so much fun! Loved seeing the Kaplans and Wanda/Viz there. It's a pity neither side of the family had any lines. I noticed AU Phyla-Vell was there too, but also no lines. It was nice seeing the New Avengers folks together again. Did anyone notice the coloring mistake on Tommy's suit in that page, btw? I thought for a second they had finally given him a redesign, but he appeared more clearly later on with his green suit, so it was probably just a mistake. LOL Tony and Steve talking about the early YA days was a nice throwback. Jessica Jones should've been there to say she always believed in them. Loki should've been there too. He was the one Young Avenger that was left out. It was so good to see Teddy doing something about Kl'rt, FINALLY! I would've been really pissed if he really just let him go when he actually had the opportunity to make him pay for his crimes. He should've been locked up in a cell just like Gla-Ree was, but I guess Marvel wanted to keep him viable for future stories, so.... meh. At least Teddy got to send a clear message about not tolerating war criminals, which is really important to me.

end of spoilers

I'm so conflicted about that ending....

spoilers:

On one hand, yeah.... I like that there is already a new story planned for Teddy, but it was really disappointing to see the carpet being pulled from under him like that. I really hope this doesn't mean his empire will literally end already, because that is going to be so fucking anti-climatic. They didn't even give the new status quo a chance to breathe yet to be thinking about tearing it all down already. Hold your horses, Marvel! Not to mention that the whole thing about how R'Klll was right is... not a good message to send? Like, are you seriously telling me the crazy, evil, murderous, dictator villain was right all along instead of the hero of your event? Come on. It CAN'T end like this, right??? As for what this new story will be, I couldn't help but notice the ''X'' on Abigail Brand's suit, indicating that perhaps this will be X-Men related. We know Ewing has been having several meetings with the X-Office, so I think it's safe to theorize this is all connected. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the idea of Teddy being a regular in an X-Book. It's just not his thing. I would much prefer if this was a S.W.O.R.D. like book maybe just disguised as an X-Men book for commercial reasons (cashing in on a successful franchise doesn't hurt anyone). But if it's really just another book for the DOX line, then I prefer if Teddy just appear in a guest capacity and they save him for something more relevant to his character, like, you know, the goddamn Young Avengers book we've been begging for!! Speaking of the YA, I wonder what the hell will be going on with them during King In Black and why they couldn't be there for Teddy. It BETTER be a good explanation. And it better come at the form of at least a mini-series tie-in to this cursed event. If you're gonna force me to care about it, at least give me some good Young Avengers content out of it!

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Though I have come to the conclusion Billy's brothers no longer exist.

end of spoilers

I like to think they were there... just off-panel.

Also X-Factor today had Prodigy saying and I quote "Fuck Speedsters" I wonder if Leah's planting seeds him and Tommy had a falling out....

Tommy's character development being done off-panel is so on-brand for him, so I wouldn't be shocked. I don't expect a single good Speed thing to come out of X-Factor, to be brutally honest. A new YA book is the only way we're getting relevant content of him again.

I see Fuse and Alloy are being treated like they're Young Avengers, when they actually don't know Wiccan and Hulkling (and therefore had no reason to be at the wedding). Could that be a hint that there'll be a team consisting of Hawkeye, Stinger, Speed, America, Patriot, Fuse and Alloy?

Could be, but I thought it was really just a case of them being there as plus-ones, and they were grouped with the Young Avengers because they wouldn't really have anywhere else to be.

Always glad to see Toni Ho, White Tiger, Power Man and Max Brashear, I'd be happy with any of them joining a Young Avengers relaunch

SAME (well, except for Max; I would be lying if I said I care about him, LOL). I'm still on my Toni Ho as Iron Lady agenda!

Did everyone notice Heinberg, Cheung, Mckelvie and Gillen in the party spread???? hahahha BRILLIANT!!

I definitely noticed Allan and Jim being there again (it seems like, in-universe, they are good friends with Billy and Teddy and not just some randoms from Las Vegas, which is pretty amusing), but not Kieron and Jamie. I remember seeing some faces I didn't recognize on that page, though. Maybe it was them. I'm gonna have to take a look at it again.

[Waking Replica]

Now that I've sat with the issue and that ending, I'm feeling a bit miffed, especially with all these December solicits trickling in that seem to be KiB related. We couldn't even get a month with the new status quo before Edgy McEdge-rson came running in with his all-powerful god-killer villain screwing it up. *Menacingly side-eyes the spider/venom office for inconveniencing my gay ass for their event*

spoilers:

Normally, I wouldn't care, but since its obvious now Teddy has to deal with that crap, it's annoying that the Venom/Knull/Symbiote stuff seems to literally be mimicking what the Cotati were just doing by invading the Earth. Especially since its looking like the Alliance gets turned into fodder for the Avengers or Venom or whoever, to save. It's bad enough some people felt there weren't too many stakes for Empyre, KiB will make it seem even worse on that front and most likely be less queer-friendly. With Billy and the rest of YA missing in that flashforward, I'm holding on to hope that Al is the one that is writing them, lest we get some ooc crap that they hightailed it out of there without him, or worse...... And if this does tie into some X-stuff, I'm praying Hickman's Wanda-hating ass doesn't shift that crap to Billy...

end of spoilers

All in all, at the end of the day, love Al for taking care of them, but Cates is on thin ice at the moment

[President Togekiss]

I mean, that would be an interesting read though, as long as they don't character assassinate anyone. I loved the twins interactions with Magneto in the Children's Crusade and House of M (the newer minisseries, not the 2005 one). Personally, If they don't make a new YA book soon, I think Speed should probably join an X-book or another, just like Quicksilver does every once in a while. The young Quicksilver worked well in the X-men movies, so I think that would be sucessful.
As for Bill and Ted, I agree that a "cosmic" book would be the best fit for them overall. Something adventurous and more light-hearted, for a change.

[Journey]

I mean, that would be an interesting read though, as long as they don't character assassinate anyone. I loved the twins interactions with Magneto in the Children's Crusade and House of M (the newer minisseries, not the 2005 one). Personally, If they don't make a new YA book soon, I think Speed should probably join an X-book or another, just like Quicksilver does every once in a while. The young Quicksilver worked well in the X-men movies, so I think that would be sucessful.
As for Bill and Ted, I agree that a "cosmic" book would be the best fit for them overall. Something adventurous and more light-hearted, for a change.

I actually agree with statement that Tommy if he's still a mutant would flourish as an X character. Pietro was at his best in the X-Books Tommy would be the same and I think he wouldn't let the Wanda stuff get to him. Billy on the other hand shouldn't be anywhere near them it's a mental breakdown waiting to happen Logan called him "Wanda Jr" for a reason he doesn't need that mess.

[Beetle]

Toni and Ava are both part of Captain America's Daughters of Liberty. Power Man is a Champion.

How much longer is Coates going to be on Captain America?
And the Champions are probably going to get a cast shakeup after Outlawed

SAME (well, except for Max; I would be lying if I said I care about him, LOL). I'm still on my Toni Ho as Iron Lady agenda!

I like Max, he's got a nice backstory with the whole former supervillain/mad scientist schtick and his complicated relationship with his father and his desire to see his brother.
I also like how unapologetic and brash he is. He has his own set of ethics and it's pretty grey. It helps differentiate him from other super geniuses, and let's face it most of the fun AIMvengers machines came from his and Roberto's flair for the dramatic.

His Dr. Positron costume is pretty cool too, like a more science-y version of Dr. Fate

[HipHopAvenger]

How much longer is Coates going to be on Captain America?
And the Champions are probably going to get a cast shakeup after Outlawed



I like Max, he's got a nice backstory with the whole former supervillain/mad scientist schtick and his complicated relationship with his father and his desire to see his brother.
I also like how unapologetic and brash he is. He has his own set of ethics and it's pretty grey. It helps differentiate him from other super geniuses, and let's face it most of the fun AIMvengers machines came from his and Roberto's flair for the dramatic.

His Dr. Positron costume is pretty cool too, like a more science-y version of Dr. Fate

How about another New Avengers book with Max, Toni, Aikku, America, Eli, Kate, Tommy, Cassie, Ava, Angela, Melissa, Doreen, Fuse & Alloy

[President Togekiss]

I specially think the Tommy/Magneto dynamic would be interesting because, unlike Quicksilver, who dispises Magneto, he and Tommy actually get along well. I think X-Force would be the best spot for out fast boi, seeing as he is more fond of destruction than his friends.

[Waking Replica]

Ehhh, until we get concrete answers on their mutant status, I'd be very weary of Tommy on an x-team. That could easily go from "omg so cute! He gets to thrive and enjoy Krakoa with his maybe-boyfriend who's on a scooby-doo mutant team!" to "maybe-boyfriend has to investigate Tommy's death and they can't ressurect him because of his uncertain mutant status!"

I'm willing to bet the x-side would gladly use him as angst fuel for David and Mags given their relationships with him (retcon or not). Granted, that's like, extreme worst case scenario, but still.

Billy on the other hand shouldn't be anywhere near them it's a mental breakdown waiting to happen Logan called him "Wanda Jr" for a reason he doesn't need that mess.

I agree Journey, the farther Billy is from Krakoa, the better. They don't just hate one of his moms' ass, but they don't like precogs and he's basically one if he wants to be. Not to mention Franklin basically fulfills any sort of niche Billy could've had as the resident reality warping god, and you know that last name of his would easily put him on higher billing than Billy, getting him more stories while Billy awaits the command to go HoM for no apparent reason.

And I know this all makes me sound like an x-hater, but I do like a lot of the characters, I promise lol! I just like the YA a whole lot more and prioritize them.

[Journey]

Ehhh, until we get concrete answers on their mutant status, I'd be very weary of Tommy on an x-team. That could easily go from "omg so cute! He gets to thrive and enjoy Krakoa with his maybe-boyfriend who's on a scooby-doo mutant team!" to "maybe-boyfriend has to investigate Tommy's death and they can't ressurect him because of his uncertain mutant status!"

I'm willing to bet the x-side would gladly use him as angst fuel for David and Mags given their relationships with him (retcon or not). Granted, that's like, extreme worst case scenario, but still.



I agree Journey, the farther Billy is from Krakoa, the better. They don't just hate one of his moms' ass, but they don't like precogs and he's basically one if he wants to be. Not to mention Franklin basically fulfills any sort of niche Billy could've had as the resident reality warping god, and you know that last name of his would easily put him on higher billing than Billy, getting him more stories while Billy awaits the command to go HoM for no apparent reason.

And I know this all makes me sound like an x-hater, but I do like a lot of the characters, I promise lol! I just like the YA a whole lot more and prioritize them.

I agree with all this though I do still think Tommy would flourish with the X-Men at least for a while but he could flourish with the Avengers too if any writer ever gave him a shot, he's so unappreciated.

I love the X people too I love Krakoa I love that the X-Men are flourishing right now I just love Billy more therefore he must stay away, precognition being another reason why doesn't need Moira on his ass that being said if Ewing does use him in his X book I will of course read it cause it makes no sense for him to be nowhere in site while Teddy is almost half dead so I am invested. And yes the false God Franklin can have Billy's would be spot eventhough he is a false God and the Demiurge is superior his universes remain in tact while Franklin's are dust in the wind, his powers are only growing while Franky boy is at his limit and only weakening no shade of course.......

[President Togekiss]

Agreed. I don't want Speed to exist just to be a tool for other characters stories arcs. That said, the uncertain status could be a cool plot point. I just want this character to stop being wallpaper. I hate how Marvel creates these awsome, interesting characters and then just puts them in wide-shots for years and years. Speed is pretty much the only one who hasn't got to appear in another series since YA was cancelled. At this point, even him showing up in a Gwenpool book would make me happy hehe.

[President Togekiss]

I agree with all this though I do still think Tommy would flourish with the X-Men at least for a while but he could flourish with the Avengers too if any writer ever gave him a shot, he's so unappreciated.

I love the X people too I love Krakoa I love that the X-Men are flourishing right now I just love Billy more therefore he must stay away, precognition being another reason why doesn't need Moira on his ass that being said if Ewing does use him in his X book I will of course read it cause it makes no sense for him to be nowhere in site while Teddy is almost half dead so I am invested. And yes the false God Franklin can have Billy's would be spot eventhough he is a false God and the Demiurge is superior his universes remain in tact while Franklin's are dust in the wind, his powers are only growing while Franky boy is at his limit and only weakening no shade of course.......

I think it would be interesting to see Franklin and Billy interacting, seeing as they basically have the same god power set, but have VERY different ways of using it (Billy does magic from afar, Franklin likes to punch things really hard), and Franklin actually has a connection to the twins (If I'm not mistaken, it was during a fight with Franklin that Mephisto lost the pieces of his sould that would become the original twin sons of the Scarlet Witch). It could be a team-up against Mephisto.

[Drops Of Venus]

Something I forgot to mention:

spoilers:

I HATED HOW EXCELSIOR WAS DESTROYED! Like, we finally had something that was uniquely Teddy's, made him stand out, be more powerful, added more to his mythology... so of course they had to take THAT away from him just to show us how badass this next big threat is. So annoying. They better fix this damn sword and give Teddy a triumphant moment with it again or I'm gonna be so pissed.

end of spoilers

I definitely noticed Allan and Jim being there again (it seems like, in-universe, they are good friends with Billy and Teddy and not just some randoms from Las Vegas, which is pretty amusing), but not Kieron and Jamie. I remember seeing some faces I didn't recognize on that page, though. Maybe it was them. I'm gonna have to take a look at it again.

About this... someone pointed this out on Twitter, and it looks like the creative team of Empyre was on that page too, portrayed as Kree/Skrull soldiers: https://twitter.com/bc_leecomics/sta...78772915380224

I knew all those people looked oddly familiar. Like I was supposed to know who they were, but I wasn't really sure why.

Now that I've sat with the issue and that ending, I'm feeling a bit miffed, especially with all these December solicits trickling in that seem to be KiB related. We couldn't even get a month with the new status quo before Edgy McEdge-rson came running in with his all-powerful god-killer villain screwing it up. *Menacingly side-eyes the spider/venom office for inconveniencing my gay ass for their event*

spoilers:

Normally, I wouldn't care, but since its obvious now Teddy has to deal with that crap, it's annoying that the Venom/Knull/Symbiote stuff seems to literally be mimicking what the Cotati were just doing by invading the Earth. Especially since its looking like the Alliance gets turned into fodder for the Avengers or Venom or whoever, to save. It's bad enough some people felt there weren't too many stakes for Empyre, KiB will make it seem even worse on that front and most likely be less queer-friendly. With Billy and the rest of YA missing in that flashforward, I'm holding on to hope that Al is the one that is writing them, lest we get some ooc crap that they hightailed it out of there without him, or worse...... And if this does tie into some X-stuff, I'm praying Hickman's Wanda-hating ass doesn't shift that crap to Billy...

end of spoilers

All in all, at the end of the day, love Al for taking care of them, but Cates is on thin ice at the moment

Yeah, my fear is just them falling on the hands of writers/editors who just don't care about them as much as Ewing/the Avengers office and they end up messing them up. I'm usually against gatekeeping, but when I think about the possibilities...... maybe some characters should be kept away from some creative teams. LOL

I do wonder whose idea it was to do that at the end of Empyre, though... Ewing literally said he wanted to give fans a good kind of twist in this story that made people feel happy instead of depressed, so I wonder if it was fully his decision to write a surprise ending like that. Best case scenario: maybe he did it because he knew there was good things to come for the characters. Worst case scenario: editorial mandated that Empyre's ending should tie-in to the KIB stuff to showcase how bad things were gonna be. Ugh.

Ehhh, until we get concrete answers on their mutant status, I'd be very weary of Tommy on an x-team. That could easily go from "omg so cute! He gets to thrive and enjoy Krakoa with his maybe-boyfriend who's on a scooby-doo mutant team!" to "maybe-boyfriend has to investigate Tommy's death and they can't ressurect him because of his uncertain mutant status!"

Honestly, even if they are 100% confirmed to be mutants, I'd still be weary of them being with the X-Men and Krakoa right now with their new status quo. Death is meaningless to the X-Men now, which means writers have free pass to kill off characters in any way they want just to be edgy, and I don't like that. I heard there was a pretty gruesome death in the recent X-Factor issue done for shock value, and I just keep thinking... I don't want that shit being done to my faves. I don't care if you're gonna shrug it off the next issue because they can be brought back. I just don't think death should be banalized like that for characters, specially queer characters. AND specially queer characters with a history of mental illness who literally tried to commit suicide once (Billy Kaplan-Altman, I AM looking at you). The possibility of something like that being done to them so casually because writers want to kill for fun just really rubs me off the wrong way.

And I know this all makes me sound like an x-hater, but I do like a lot of the characters, I promise lol! I just like the YA a whole lot more and prioritize them.

Same. I like the X-Men enough to know exactly why I want my favorite non-X-Men characters to stay the fuck away from them.

And yes the false God Franklin can have Billy's would be spot eventhough he is a false God and the Demiurge is superior his universes remain in tact while Franklin's are dust in the wind, his powers are only growing while Franky boy is at his limit and only weakening no shade of course.......

I love how you drag Franklin and then go ''no shade''. LMAO

Agreed. I don't want Speed to exist just to be a tool for other characters stories arcs. That said, the uncertain status could be a cool plot point. I just want this character to stop being wallpaper. I hate how Marvel creates these awsome, interesting characters and then just puts them in wide-shots for years and years. Speed is pretty much the only one who hasn't got to appear in another series since YA was cancelled. At this point, even him showing up in a Gwenpool book would make me happy hehe.

I mean, Gwenpool is a pretty perfect example that being a mutant and going to Krakoa doesn't really mean much. I still don't get what was the point of retconning her into being a mutant when they clearly don't have a proper role for her on that corner of the Marvel Universe.

[Digifiend]

So that's why there was Kree and Skrulls with beards! I thought that was odd, as both races are always depicted as clean shaven.

As for Gwenpool - she just showed up in X-Factor, which has the same creative team as the mini that ended with her going to Krakoa.

[Beetle]

Eli sure was chugging down those drinks

I like that Cassie went giant for the Vegas wedding but spent the Space wedding shrunken and in costume.