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  1. #541
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I covered that back on 7th October.


    Well well, look who's in a new mobile game!
    Yeah, I was disappointed she didn't get any lines because it would've been nice to see her with an official VA.

  2. #542
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    With Brawn being with/essentially leading the Agents of Atlas, I kinda wonder how that's meant to translate to the events here?

  3. #543
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Amadeus can commute as long as Pinpoint is around. He probably doesn't want to let the Champions down, but can simply flee to Pan if need be. Come to think of it, can't the entire team just go to Asia? Kamala's Law only applies in the USA, so they'd be safe in another country. That's probably why they're teaming up with the Marauders in issue 4, CRADLE can't touch them once they reach international waters (they do still need to go back and rescue the captured kids, but this would buy them time). Kamala has family in Pakistan and Amadeus probably has relatives in South Korea.
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  4. #544
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    I figured when they mentioned that SHIELD Agent Greg Pak created was part of CRADLE that he'd be part of the AoA Outlawed tie-in.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Amadeus can commute as long as Pinpoint is around. He probably doesn't want to let the Champions down, but can simply flee to Pan if need be. Come to think of it, can't the entire team just go to Asia? Kamala's Law only applies in the USA, so they'd be safe in another country. That's probably why they're teaming up with the Marauders in issue 4, CRADLE can't touch them once they reach international waters (they do still need to go back and rescue the captured kids, but this would buy them time). Kamala has family in Pakistan and Amadeus probably has relatives in South Korea.
    It'd be harder for most of them to just up and leave their families behind, though.

  6. #546
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    For the ones who don't have secret identities, home isn't safe anyway because CRADLE can come knocking on the door - it happened to Moon Girl, who had to hide and then run away. It's almost certainly the reason she doesn't have Devil Dinosaur with her - the big red t-rex would give her location away.
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  7. #547
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm911 View Post
    I could see it happening but that raises two questions to ponder about. After the mediocre event of Civil War II do you think readers are willing to give a potential CWIII an actual chance no matter the creative team behind it? (most Likely Eve Ewing and an different top artist.) Or are we just too burnt out on hero versus hero / hero versus government to want to see it again?

    Also two more reviews are now up

    https://graphicpolicy.com/2020/10/05...w-champions-1/

    https://weirdsciencemarvelcomics.com...ions-1-review/
    I think the CW1 arguments are too tired to continue, but the Champions started their particular mission because of CW11 about adults doing it wrong. This, I think is a different argument we want to have. I’m all for teenage idealism, and the Champions taking a stand makes sense in the 616 MU because it seems evident to me that all major Events are caused by adult super heroes or teams. Everyone of them. So this argument is very topical for me, firstly, because it’s a fresh perspective on teenage heroes owning responsibility, and second, teen heroes actually calling out adult superheroes for their irresponsibility in the 616.

    I’ve often said, teenaged heroes have to grow up, and Miles Morales ponders in Champions #1 (out a couple of weeks ago) about would he still feel the stance he feels now, when he’s older? This is the issue I’m looking at Eve Ewing arguments, for how this teen perspective reacts to adult laws confronting their freedom, and we get some this issue, when kids mention their finance stream has been cut, they lost their clubhouse, and now, after VivVisions betrayal, they are going to be confronted by dissension in their ranks, and maybe fights break out between them. I want pressure put on teen heroes, so we can see where their loyalties lie, and how they can stick to their mission. Maybe Steve Rogers just comes along and gives them a pep talk and it’s all sweet and back on track, but that is a cop-out to me. Don’t include Rogers in the debate, because he has too strong an influence on everything. I want the Champions to figure it out for themselves, and if it means they suffer for that, so be it. But I want the Champions to face their mission statement and come out the other side.
    Last edited by jackolover; 10-29-2020 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #548
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    "Heroes vs. heroes," yes, but considering how thoroughly corrupt the U.S. government (at least) in-universe has been for years/decades, especially in its attempts to subjugate and/or flat-out eliminate superpowered heroes/vigilantes, I would say we've been overdue for a "heroes vs. government" story. The question by now is why anyone would still think any of these people are acting in good faith anymore and not just trying to stifle what they see as a threat to their own interests, especially given Ms. Marvel calling out the hypocrisy of them claiming they're doing it "to protect the children" even though their own actions in so many other areas have done more to destroy those children's current and future quality of life.
    I’m not thoroughly attuned to that final argument Huntsman - “destroy those children’s current and future quality of life”. Can you elaborate that part for me please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I kind of get the feeling that what's happening in Champions and Daredevil will be self-contained and resolved within its own books, not really leading to any massive crossover event. I just feel like it's too much to try to do another Civil War-like event. I find it weird enough that Marvel greenlit this new story for Daredevil when they're ALREADY doing something similar in Champions. I don't think we need a third book about the same subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The Daredevil story is actually directly connected to Outlawed. Kamala's Law is mentioned, and Fisk wants to extend it to all vigilantes. Of course, he only has jurisdiction over New York.
    I like this even more, especially as I hold the opinion that superheroes are connected to all big Events happening in the MU, so somebody has to connect the dots, and maybe bring it to the notice of adult superheroes so they can short-circuit that connection. Or at least understand big Events have to exist just like Sentry has to exist with Void, his alter-ego. I want that resolved.
    Last edited by jackolover; 10-29-2020 at 06:12 PM.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I’m not thoroughly attuned to that final argument Huntsman - “destroy those children’s current and future quality of life”. Can you elaborate that part for me please?
    You have grown adults running into schools and homes looking for teen heroes.

    As we saw in Miles's book-Ganke, the girl who likes Miles and Judge got arrested. Juvenile laws vary by state.

    The girl who likes Miles is related to Rhino.
    Who KNOWS who Judge is related to and what his real name is.
    Power Man 2 is the son of a criminal-what happens if that gets out?

    In Tim Drake's Robin run-we saw kids who LOOKED like him get murder in an attempt to find him.
    In Steel's book his ID got public and it cost him his granny.
    In New Warriors-Rage lost his Granny.

    How many dead black males could you have in New York if someone (not even a villain) went looking for boys who looked like Rayshaun Lucas?
    And in Rayshaun's case-his black skin attracts bigots, racist and others who would love to kill a black male.

    CRADLE opens up a larger can of worms than it solves.

  10. #550
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZuLuLu View Post
    Exactly, there is nothing wrong with these kids having some adult supervision, but the question becomes are they ever allowed to do superhero acts when they are not being directly supervised. Are the adult superheroes liable for actions of their mentees when they are not with them?
    It was always about trusting teen superheroes. The New Avengers went out of their way to curtail the Young Avengers when the YA appeared and did stuff. It took to Children’s Crusade till Steve Rogers relented and accepted the YA were qualified to act independently. But adult superheroes question this status all the time, being unable to trust a teens choice-making in dangerous situations. After CW11, the Avengers never confronted the Champions for breaking away from conventional adult morality, so I’m thinking there is a pride by the Avengers for the Champions?

  11. #551
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    You have grown adults running into schools and homes looking for teen heroes.

    As we saw in Miles's book-Ganke, the girl who likes Miles and Judge got arrested. Juvenile laws vary by state.

    The girl who likes Miles is related to Rhino.
    Who KNOWS who Judge is related to and what his real name is.
    Power Man 2 is the son of a criminal-what happens if that gets out?

    In Tim Drake's Robin run-we saw kids who LOOKED like him get murder in an attempt to find him.
    In Steel's book his ID got public and it cost him his granny.
    In New Warriors-Rage lost his Granny.

    How many dead black males could you have in New York if someone (not even a villain) went looking for boys who looked like Rayshaun Lucas?
    And in Rayshaun's case-his black skin attracts bigots, racist and others who would love to kill a black male.

    CRADLE opens up a larger can of worms than it solves.
    Nice skyvolt. It notifies me on a lot of examples I wasn’t aware of. Connections of teens to criminals, overzealous searches for a profiling subject, and deaths around characters. I’d hate to see Marvel do a scene of racism towards arresting, say, Miles as a civilian. I’d like to stick to the teens versus adults. In my state in Australia, a headmaster refused students dressing up for muck-up day after their final exams, to accusations of anti-diversification for not allowing gender-swaps of clothes. Rage surrounds these kinds of strict rules by adults that don’t make any sense, so I can see why teens are cynical of adult authority.

  12. #552
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    You have grown adults running into schools and homes looking for teen heroes.

    As we saw in Miles's book-Ganke, the girl who likes Miles and Judge got arrested. Juvenile laws vary by state.

    The girl who likes Miles is related to Rhino.
    Barbara is not related to Rhino. Her cousin and his niece were both among the same group of kidnapped kids that Miles, Captain America and Rhino rescued in Miles Morales: Spider-Man #3.
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  13. #553
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I’m not thoroughly attuned to that final argument Huntsman - “destroy those children’s current and future quality of life”. Can you elaborate that part for me please?





    I like this even more, especially as I hold the opinion that superheroes are connected to all big Events happening in the MU, so somebody has to connect the dots, and maybe bring it to the notice of adult superheroes so they can short-circuit that connection. Or at least understand big Events have to exist just like Sentry has to exist with Void, his alter-ego. I want that resolved.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    You have grown adults running into schools and homes looking for teen heroes.

    As we saw in Miles's book-Ganke, the girl who likes Miles and Judge got arrested. Juvenile laws vary by state.

    The girl who likes Miles is related to Rhino.
    Who KNOWS who Judge is related to and what his real name is.
    Power Man 2 is the son of a criminal-what happens if that gets out?

    In Tim Drake's Robin run-we saw kids who LOOKED like him get murder in an attempt to find him.
    In Steel's book his ID got public and it cost him his granny.
    In New Warriors-Rage lost his Granny.

    How many dead black males could you have in New York if someone (not even a villain) went looking for boys who looked like Rayshaun Lucas?
    And in Rayshaun's case-his black skin attracts bigots, racist and others who would love to kill a black male.

    CRADLE opens up a larger can of worms than it solves.
    Good points, skyvolt2000, and what I was alluding to before, jackolover, was that adult actions in politics, government, and business have been destroying the present and future quality of life for the same children they claim to want to protect, starting with these three examples off the top of my head:

    1. skyrocketing debt on account of exorbitant college payment loans and interest on those loans that renders many if not most young people unable to acquire a home of their own,
    2. climate change wracking and ravaging the planet that future generations will be stuck with while the adults responsible for much if not most of the pollution behind climate change will be (long) dead,
    3. the increasing threat of a mass shooting in an American school due to the easy availability of high-capacity firearms despite the general public's demand that something be done to prevent such tools from ending up in the hands of unstable people.

    Because of those and other factors that have had a deleterious effect on the quality of life most youths growing up today will have as adults, if not even before that, I believe most of the adults working to restrict the Champions and other young heroes "for their own good" don't have the moral authority anymore to dictate to them what "good" means.
    Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 10-29-2020 at 08:14 PM.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    You have grown adults running into schools and homes looking for teen heroes.

    As we saw in Miles's book-Ganke, the girl who likes Miles and Judge got arrested. Juvenile laws vary by state.

    The girl who likes Miles is related to Rhino.
    Who KNOWS who Judge is related to and what his real name is.
    Power Man 2 is the son of a criminal-what happens if that gets out?

    In Tim Drake's Robin run-we saw kids who LOOKED like him get murder in an attempt to find him.
    In Steel's book his ID got public and it cost him his granny.
    In New Warriors-Rage lost his Granny.

    How many dead black males could you have in New York if someone (not even a villain) went looking for boys who looked like Rayshaun Lucas?
    And in Rayshaun's case-his black skin attracts bigots, racist and others who would love to kill a black male.

    CRADLE opens up a larger can of worms than it solves.
    These sound like pretty good arguments to not let teenagers be superheroes if this is what it results in.

  15. #555

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