Champions Appreciation 2020

[Digifiend]

His first one, #19, did, at least. Must've been released after #21 because the cover would otherwise be a spoiler for that issue. #19 was Amka's debut issue, she became Snowguard and joined the team in #21.

[Grimm911]

That's good to hear. I don't think any of Zub's issues got a second printing, so it looks like this relaunch might have had more of an impact .

Zub's run had 2nd printings with issues #19-22

[Venom Melendez]

Was Amadeus Cho among the ones captured?

[Frontier]

Was Amadeus Cho among the ones captured?

I'm 90% certain he wasn't.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, the current status of the Champions are that Falcon registered with the older Falcon as his mentor and has left the team, Locust and Snowguard were captured in Outlawed #1, Bombshell and Wasp were captured in Champions #1, Starling got captured after #1 but before #2 (as I said, probably in an unreleased issue of Miles Morales), Viv is on the run faking the dead, and most of the others have dispersed, with Kamala, Miles, Sam and now Riri travelling as a group. We know their next move will be to seek out Cyclops. Amadeus has more than likely gone to Pan to be with the Agents of Atlas - it appears that Atlantis Attacks takes place after Outlawed, considering it leads directly into King in Black. That's kind of a sanctuary for Ammy, as Kamala's Law isn't enforceable outside the US (which makes you wonder why Amka, a Canadian, wasn't just deported).

[jackolover]

Good points, skyvolt2000, and what I was alluding to before, jackolover, was that adult actions in politics, government, and business have been destroying the present and future quality of life for the same children they claim to want to protect, starting with these three examples off the top of my head:

1. skyrocketing debt on account of exorbitant college payment loans and interest on those loans that renders many if not most young people unable to acquire a home of their own,
2. climate change wracking and ravaging the planet that future generations will be stuck with while the adults responsible for much if not most of the pollution behind climate change will be (long) dead,
3. the increasing threat of a mass shooting in an American school due to the easy availability of high-capacity firearms despite the general public's demand that something be done to prevent such tools from ending up in the hands of unstable people.

Because of those and other factors that have had a deleterious effect on the quality of life most youths growing up today will have as adults, if not even before that, I believe most of the adults working to restrict the Champions and other young heroes "for their own good" don't have the moral authority anymore to dictate to them what "good" means.

I can see why Champions is a very current issue to the school children observing and internalising their predicament into the future. The tension between the teens in CWII and the adult superheroes rings true as a realisation what adults cause in future generations. Of course adults are foisted with the responsibility of structuring a plan for teens, but there comes a time adults have to be held accountable. There used to a program back in the 1960’s and 70’s of students being invited into council meetings for their input, and it was abandoned. I have a feeling teens nowadays wouldn’t abandon that kind of forum that quickly anymore, considering that teen from Scandinavia and climate change.

Your example of student loans having a detrimental effect on their future rings true in my country as well. That debt hangs around their neck for decades before they come out from under it.

[jackolover]

To be honest, I've always felt like the team needed to get off their high horse about the adult heroes in Civil War II. It was never going to really fly for them to keep bringing that up as a motivation for the team in my opinion.

There is the consequences argument to, “How would you it, if not what the adults do”? It’s what I have been looking at with Kamala Khan in Ms Marvel, because she has now been confronted with a collateral damage issue from her standpoint and I wonder how Kamala is going to view adult superheroes now? Does she maintain her superiority of morals, or does Kamala understand that intervention does hold some negative consequences? This is the argument I am interested in when a young adult grows into an adult. Yes, it’s nice to hold idealistic views, but it takes a while to get to where Captain America is. Where do you draw the line between overwhelming threat, and intervention with consequences? “Incursions” was one of those absurd examples of this question.

[jackolover]

You might actually like Outlawed, then, because Eve Ewing so far seems to be making it clear throughout the actual plotting and characterization in this that the world --- whether in real-life terms or Marvel Universe terms --- is far more complex than simply "one side good, other side bad." The main failure of both Civil Wars was that despite both sides going to extremes in certain ways, one side was written out as far worse and far less morally defensible compared to the other, though ironically, it was the "more wrong" side that triumphed in both cases, only for that triumph to turn into a pyrrhic victory as it played into the hands of even worse villains who exploited the ill will generated by the conflict for their own gain. At least here, she seems to be making the case that just because someone has genuine conviction and raises a good argument, that doesn't automatically make them right or give them the right to ignore the arguments and viewpoints of their opponents.

I never looked at both CW’s as Pyrrhic victories in that sense before, but I’ll give you another example which may be a bit confronting in today’s battle in COVID-19.

We in Victoria, Australia, were so fearful of Lockdown in our Second Wave that we thought our society would collapse. Lose our jobs, companies default, economy go into meltdown. But it didn’t. And you know what we learnt from all that experience of holding our nerve till we got C-19 under control? None of what we feared happened. We were all fine (except for a few emotional scares). But what we learnt was, we can have a Lockdown now, and not fear the worst will happen. It won’t. We couldn’t adhere to the Pandemic Plan we had in our state, but had to apply extreme restrictions, but it worked. This was an example of an adult response we didn’t like and hated, but it’s effect was what was important. No new cases in 15 days.

[jackolover]

Personally, I can see both sides, but at this point, I would still put more blame on the adults, heroes and civilians, in general because they're the ones who are supposed to "know better" than those "naive kids" and yet they make the same damn mistakes over and over and over again, ignoring or neglecting the future impact of those mistakes on the younger generations that will end up inheriting and having to fix the mess those adults will have left behind. That's what I think Eve Ewing is addressing here, while also adding the nuance that Kamala might not necessarily have the best perspective on how to confront and fix the mistakes of the older generations.

I may have described my COVID-19 example too simplistically, because the consequences of the Lockdown was also 800 dead from a failed hotel security system. Be that as it may, under that sobering reality, the final result still holds.

If this is an argument of adults vs teens the people assigned to direct a response to an incident still falls to adults, not children. I don’t know how we can dilute that reality.

[Huntsman Spider]

I can see why Champions is a very current issue to the school children observing and internalising their predicament into the future. The tension between the teens in CWII and the adult superheroes rings true as a realisation what adults cause in future generations. Of course adults are foisted with the responsibility of structuring a plan for teens, but there comes a time adults have to be held accountable. There used to a program back in the 1960’s and 70’s of students being invited into council meetings for their input, and it was abandoned. I have a feeling teens nowadays wouldn’t abandon that kind of forum that quickly anymore, considering that teen from Scandinavia and climate change.

Your example of student loans having a detrimental effect on their future rings true in my country as well. That debt hangs around their neck for decades before they come out from under it.

There is the consequences argument to, “How would you it, if not what the adults do”? It’s what I have been looking at with Kamala Khan in Ms Marvel, because she has now been confronted with a collateral damage issue from her standpoint and I wonder how Kamala is going to view adult superheroes now? Does she maintain her superiority of morals, or does Kamala understand that intervention does hold some negative consequences? This is the argument I am interested in when a young adult grows into an adult. Yes, it’s nice to hold idealistic views, but it takes a while to get to where Captain America is. Where do you draw the line between overwhelming threat, and intervention with consequences? “Incursions” was one of those absurd examples of this question.

I never looked at both CW’s as Pyrrhic victories in that sense before, but I’ll give you another example which may be a bit confronting in today’s battle in COVID-19.

We in Victoria, Australia, were so fearful of Lockdown in our Second Wave that we thought our society would collapse. Lose our jobs, companies default, economy go into meltdown. But it didn’t. And you know what we learnt from all that experience of holding our nerve till we got C-19 under control? None of what we feared happened. We were all fine (except for a few emotional scares). But what we learnt was, we can have a Lockdown now, and not fear the worst will happen. It won’t. We couldn’t adhere to the Pandemic Plan we had in our state, but had to apply extreme restrictions, but it worked. This was an example of an adult response we didn’t like and hated, but it’s effect was what was important. No new cases in 15 days.

I may have described my COVID-19 example too simplistically, because the consequences of the Lockdown was also 800 dead from a failed hotel security system. Be that as it may, under that sobering reality, the final result still holds.

If this is an argument of adults vs teens the people assigned to direct a response to an incident still falls to adults, not children. I don’t know how we can dilute that reality.

Thanks for your responses. You raise some good and interesting points as well.

[Will Evans]

Was Snow guard in today’s Marvel Voices issue?

[Lonewolf36]

Was Snow guard in today’s Marvel Voices issue?

No appearance of Snowguard.

[Digifiend]

Damn it. There appears to be a mistake in the February solicitations, issue 4 is there again, instead of issue 5. Issue 4 was solicited for January.

Also, no Power Pack. Looks like Outlawed has been suspended for some reason. And Miles is facing a brown fist with a gold wristband in his King in Black tie-in - it seems that Knull brainwashed Kamala.

[Frontier]

Damn it. There appears to be a mistake in the February solicitations, issue 4 is there again, instead of issue 5. Issue 4 was solicited for January.

Also, no Power Pack. Looks like Outlawed has been suspended for some reason. And Miles is facing a brown fist with a gold wristband in his King in Black tie-in - it seems that Knull brainwashed Kamala.

Weird it would take a month off.

[Will Evans]

I guess there trying to get the Knull Event out. And put Outlawed on hold.