Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[Reviresco]

Okay, I started a review thread for the mini-series here:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-P-O-I-L-E-R-S!!!

I know WE love it, but I think this might actually appeal to non-Namor fans.

[Reviresco]

I only wish we had more comics during the ten year gap that focused on Namor like this one comic did, I've only had to wait 6 years for a new series and had lots of old comics to fill my time with so I haven't felt the long wait was others did, and tbh I'm still catching up on comics! I don't know if you have seen this interview by Busiek yet?

Interview Link

That's the thing. We've gotten some Namor appearances, but with the exception of Zdarsky, nothing has really focused on Namor, and pushed the character. And even Zdarsky was more interested in Namor's relationship to Cap, I think.

No, I haven't! Going to go take a read now.

[Phoenixx9]

I'm so excited, I can't wait to read it!



He doesn't talk to them, but I think it was once said he could understand them on a lesser level? Like Namor is very good with animals, and so he is just like able to pick up on their cues, or if they are playing into his slight telepathic abilities then he might get emotions out of them. I don't have specific issues for my thoughts right now. However I do recall that Namor knew when a sea creature wasn't real, in Agents of Atlas 2009 iirc Namor knew the giant murder fish was a mental illusion and not a sea creature. Also in the comics its been shown he knows how to wrangle giaganto, and basically to me I feel Namor is just much better at dealing with sea creatures than people. However recently in the 2018 Avengers you see him command sharks. :/ which was used to attack stingray, so I didn't like that. But you do see him use a Kraken on the Roxxon ship too. Unsure if he had the horn at the time since it wasn't shown. I often feel the horn is used for bigger more deadly sea monsters.

Sadly, it depends on who is writing him. There really isn't much consistency.

Yes, he's interacted with sea animals without the Horn of Proteus. The Horn seems to awake kaiju, and not have much to do with regular sea life, IIRC. And it seems to be more like the Pied Piper's pipe, rather than something that allows direct communication.

We've seen Namor seemingly talk to some mammals, like dolphins and whales.

We've seen Namor appear to be empathic to fish and rays, understanding basic 'emotions' like fear. Or gain a bit of co-operation.

We've also seen Namor having zero influence on sea life, like when Llyra sent leeches (???) after him. Or, of course, Orka attacking him with killer whales.

Thank you both.

I wonder if Namor's limited "TP" would work on humans? I have not seen this used/happen, but with Namor's often forceful personality, he probably never thought to try to subtly influence people to help him! But I wonder if that is a power? Or do you think it is only a power with aquatic animals (not land or air ones) and with sea monsters? That would be okay with me too as it is a cool power/talent, but just wondering about the others.

[Reviresco]

Thank you both.

I wonder if Namor's limited "TP" would work on humans? I have not seen this used/happen, but with Namor's often forceful personality, he probably never thought to try to subtly influence people to help him! But I wonder if that is a power? Or do you think it is only a power with aquatic animals (not land or air ones) and with sea monsters? That would be okay with me too as it is a cool power/talent, but just wondering about the others.

IIRC in the Golden Age, the Atlanteans spoke to each other via telepathy.

Namor is supposed to have some mental powers. He's supposed to be resistant to telepathic control. I'm trying to remember the story where that came up. I'm thinking it was the Defenders. Remember how he was the first one to throw off Nebulon's illusion?

[ImperiusWrecked]

Thank you both.

I wonder if Namor's limited "TP" would work on humans? I have not seen this used/happen, but with Namor's often forceful personality, he probably never thought to try to subtly influence people to help him! But I wonder if that is a power? Or do you think it is only a power with aquatic animals (not land or air ones) and with sea monsters? That would be okay with me too as it is a cool power/talent, but just wondering about the others.

IIRC in the Golden Age, the Atlanteans spoke to each other via telepathy.

Namor is supposed to have some mental powers. He's supposed to be resistant to telepathic control. I'm trying to remember the story where that came up. I'm thinking it was the Defenders. Remember how he was the first one to throw off Nebulon's illusion?

Rev is right, the Altanteans used Telepathy as a means of communicating with each other in the golden age but it hasn't been used since. Also I do think Namor's telepathic powers mostly pertain to him have very strong mental defenses which are also in combination with his strong will. Namor has in the past:
- Fought off the full power of the Purple Man, also it took Doom WEEKS of wearing Namor down with the crytal he gave him to wear. Doom targeted Namor first because he knew Namor was the one being with a strong enough will to fight the purple man's control (which is why that dumb Aquaman vs Namor fan vid which had Namor losing because Aquaman used his telepathy to hold Namor in place had me rolling my eyes.)
- Kept Emma Frost out of his head in places he did not wish her to see
- Constantly is the first one to break out of mental defense holds such as one time in Defenders that I'm thinking off but can't recall the issue exactly.
- Also you asked about land creatures, Namor did show he had a way of getting the Griffin to like him, which could possibly be some of his telepathy if you wanted to think of it that way?
- Namor constantly is pretty much aware of when things seem to not be as they are in his head and fights back against them.

That's the thing. We've gotten some Namor appearances, but with the exception of Zdarsky, nothing has really focused on Namor, and pushed the character. And even Zdarsky was more interested in Namor's relationship to Cap, I think.

No, I haven't! Going to go take a read now.

Let me know what you think of the interview. I agree that Zdarsky focused too much on Cap and Namor, and it really took away from the whole Invaders feel. Honestly took away from the Namor feel as well. I wish some things had been done differently, especially with the Torches (I'm sorry it's been a year but I still can't stand Iron Torch, I'm not an Iron Man fan and hate when there are "Iron" variants or whatever)

Okay, I started a review thread for the mini-series here:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-P-O-I-L-E-R-S!!!

I know WE love it, but I think this might actually appeal to non-Namor fans.

Heading over there now!

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'll be working on comic icons from the issue later today! I will post some here when it's done, the art is just so pretty!

[Reviresco]

I'll be working on comic icons from the issue later today! I will post some here when it's done, the art is just so pretty!

Great! Can't wait to see what you make! I had started a Swift Tide gif a few weeks ago, but couldn't get the size down to CBR standards.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'm not super great with gifs like others are but if I have time I will take a turn at one, what dimensions does CBR take?

Kurt Busiek talks Swift Riders and the different people of Atlantis on twitter:

I saw some folks online wondering why, in NAMOR: KING IN BLACK, the Swift Riders are ethnically diverse when they’re all from the same city.
Aside from plenty of cities being diverse, the answer beyond that is simple:
They’re not all from the same city.
Atlantis is the name of the capital city of the Atlantean Empire. It’s also the name of the empire.
Two of the Swift Riders are from the city of Atlantis, Kharsa and Sycorax.
Garra the Breaker is one of the nomadic Chasm Folk.
The Mountain is from Deviant Lemuria.
Swift Mercy is from somewhere in the Atlantean Empire, but we haven’t established where.
Still, a subset of the question is “how come you have green and red and purple people when in the Sixties everyone was pale blue but sub-mariners?”
The answer is also “same reason almost all New Yorkers in comics in the 40s-60s were white, but we don’t do that any more."
New York was far more diverse than what we saw in comics, in Woody Allen movies and in FRIENDS. So nowadays we show it more accurately, and figure the old portrayals were limited.
The same can be true of Atlantis, even if it’s fictional.
The way I see it, the empire of Atlantis _and_ the city of Atlantis were always more diverse than what we saw in the Golden and Silver Age, but you got a limited portrayal because hey, those were the times.
Today, we don’t need to say “here’s why diversity is cropping up,” we just say, “We’re showing more of it than you saw before, now. But the undersea civilizations were always varied — the oceans are bigger than the land areas, so there’s more room for variety, not less.”

Secrets behind the comics revealed.

[Reviresco]

Okay, I read Captain Marvel 24. And I smell a rat. Clearly Ove is spinning a story. Or Enchantress is spinning one on him. Anyone else notice that Ove's mom looks like Namora when she's Atlantis? And why the heck would there be a rebellion against a super successful Atlantis???

Kid Ove did look cute with his little stuffed dolphin.

[Kurt Busiek]

Garra the Breaker is one of the nomadic Chasm Folk.

She's also, ethnically, Lemurian -- not Deviant Lemuria, but the Lemuria Llyra was from.

kdb

[ImperiusWrecked]

She's also, ethnically, Lemurian -- not Deviant Lemuria, but the Lemuria Llyra was from.

kdb

Oh I was wondering if she was! Thanks for clearing that up. (Also I've always said Llyra was definitely one of the worst (aka best at being bad) villains Namor ever had, her crimes against Namor personally were the most deep cutting.)

Okay, I read Captain Marvel 24. And I smell a rat. Clearly Ove is spinning a story. Or Enchantress is spinning one on him. Anyone else notice that Ove's mom looks like Namora when she's Atlantis? And why the heck would there be a rebellion against a super successful Atlantis???

Kid Ove did look cute with his little stuffed dolphin.

I personally disliked how Namor is portrayed as a "non loving husband"??? Like what? He wouldn't have married Amora unless he loved her, unless she was somehow using magic on him? I'm not sure of Amora's motives but I've always liked her. Ove is definitely being shows as the bad guy in this series, which I expected. I was wondering if that was deliberate when I saw Amora's silhouette in the comic, because I thought we have finally put the Namora/Namor stuff way behind us. (Please writers never bring it up again). Still out of all of Namor's AU kids, Ove seems to be the most fleshed out and not a mere copy of Namor.

Still he was a very cute princeling!

[Reviresco]

I personally disliked how Namor is portrayed as a "non loving husband"??? Like what? He wouldn't have married Amora unless he loved her, unless she was somehow using magic on him? I'm not sure of Amora's motives but I've always liked her. Ove is definitely being shows as the bad guy in this series, which I expected. I was wondering if that was deliberate when I saw Amora's silhouette in the comic, because I thought we have finally put the Namora/Namor stuff way behind us. (Please writers never bring it up again). Still out of all of Namor's AU kids, Ove seems to be the most fleshed out and not a mere copy of Namor.

Still he was a very cute princeling!

Well, "non-loving husband" doesn't sound like Namor to me either, in most circumstances. However, I see that as another clue that either Ove or the Enchantress is lying. This isn't really a portrayal of Namor, but Ove presenting his extremely biased POV of what may, or may not, have actually happened. Plus, Ove is obviously trying to manipulate Captain Marvel, so that could tailor the STORY he's telling her.

Even in that first panel, you can see Ove's mom is wearing Namora's costume. And we don't get to see her face, or more precisely, her ears. ;p

Also, WHY are all these "rebelling Atlanteans" white? Why isn't that assassin, or are what we can see of the crowd, blue?

[Phoenixx9]

IIRC in the Golden Age, the Atlanteans spoke to each other via telepathy.

Namor is supposed to have some mental powers. He's supposed to be resistant to telepathic control. I'm trying to remember the story where that came up. I'm thinking it was the Defenders. Remember how he was the first one to throw off Nebulon's illusion?

Rev is right, the Altanteans used Telepathy as a means of communicating with each other in the golden age but it hasn't been used since. Also I do think Namor's telepathic powers mostly pertain to him have very strong mental defenses which are also in combination with his strong will. Namor has in the past:
- Fought off the full power of the Purple Man, also it took Doom WEEKS of wearing Namor down with the crytal he gave him to wear. Doom targeted Namor first because he knew Namor was the one being with a strong enough will to fight the purple man's control (which is why that dumb Aquaman vs Namor fan vid which had Namor losing because Aquaman used his telepathy to hold Namor in place had me rolling my eyes.)
- Kept Emma Frost out of his head in places he did not wish her to see
- Constantly is the first one to break out of mental defense holds such as one time in Defenders that I'm thinking off but can't recall the issue exactly.
- Also you asked about land creatures, Namor did show he had a way of getting the Griffin to like him, which could possibly be some of his telepathy if you wanted to think of it that way?
- Namor constantly is pretty much aware of when things seem to not be as they are in his head and fights back against them.

Again, thank you both! I always felt like Namor had some TP resistance or mental strength that was never mentioned in any Handbook entry.

[Astral Disaster]

Okay, I read Captain Marvel 24. And I smell a rat. Clearly Ove is spinning a story. Or Enchantress is spinning one on him. Anyone else notice that Ove's mom looks like Namora when she's Atlantis? And why the heck would there be a rebellion against a super successful Atlantis???

Kid Ove did look cute with his little stuffed dolphin.

As a sorceress Amora has routinely used her magic to disguise herself, so she could have done so in this case for whatever scheme she was planning. The other option, going by the one page and having not read the issue, is that there was no scheme or deceit, Namor was aware of who she was, and the rebellion was due to him marrying an outsider and the perception Asgard would have too much influence over the affairs of Atlantis.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Rev, will you be starting a new Namor Appreciation thread for 2021? I will be mostly offline in the coming weeks but more active in the New Year. I'll still be checking in as soon as the next issue of KiB: Namor comes out.