Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor pin up art by americaninjax based on an idea by notlasers

[Reviresco]

Oh my.

Gorgeous sexy art. Though ... I love the saying, I'm not sure I want to see Namor in a baseball cap. LOL!

[Phoenixx9]

Oh my.

Gorgeous sexy art. Though ... I love the saying, I'm not sure I want to see Namor in a baseball cap. LOL!

Yeah I know....but read the hat...LOL!

[Reviresco]

Yeah I know....but read the hat...LOL!

I did! I love it! But I'm not a fan of baseball caps. Though ... there's not much else you could put that message on, with Namor, is there? LOL!

[Reviresco]

Well, I am obsessed with the Phoenix, but hey--it is part of my character!

But seriously, yes, for Namor, they need to focus on Namor and all of his many abilities, problems, kingdom, etc. I hated that all of these other "pretenders" got the Phoenix Power. Namor does not need that.

In addition, Namor has such a rich history and a multitude of ties to the MU. These writers need to use some imagination and use all of these great points to weave terrific stories.

THIS right here!

Is this going to advance Namor as a character? Or is this just yet another trashing of the character to boost some other character / group? Are Namor fans going to get anything good from this? Anything that restores the character to his original awesomeness? Are we going to get a MU affecting event that will fix the damage done here? Will we get a solo??? Or are we going to have spend yet another EIGHT plus years defending the character, and showing how OOC these actions are? Or having gone through this YET again, has it warped the character into this mess of a villain?

I've loved this character since 1972. And the Namor I've read and loved all these decades wasn't a victim or some weak willed, crazy, supporting character with zero agency. This is one of the few characters who resisted the freaking Serpent Crown! The Puppet Master couldn't control him. He was the first to see through illusions.

And the kicker is that Namor's world is the one of the most unique in the MU. It's unexplored and what is explored is weird and amazing. It's also the most ancient civilization on the planet, drenched in magic and legends. It's ripe for political intrigue and high adventure. So what do we get? Some kitchy Davy Jones bar scene out of a bad pirate movie, where Namor is taking political advice from a bartender???? Ugh.

I am so so so tired of Marvel trashing and completely bungling such a great original character.

[Reviresco]

It was honestly a matter of a time though. His whole run is based off the premise of the Avengers BCE thing he introduced. So The Phoenix was going to show up eventually in some form or another during AaronÂ’s tenure on the book similar to how the Starbrand appeared last arc. IÂ’m expecting to get more BCE related stuff in future arcs as well.

This is what I mean. I don't care about the Avengers BCE. I think it's a lame premise / retcon to pump up his pet characters. So I REALLY hate Namor being used to help do this.

I honestly didnÂ’t expect to see The Phoenix like this so IÂ’ll give Aaron points on that on top of the fact that despite Namor getting duped into going into War with the Avengers heÂ’s doing it on his own terms and not getting duped into forming an alliance with people he doesnÂ’t care for to begin with. I was curious to how an interaction with him and Hyperion would go because I definitely donÂ’t see Namor being keen on that, so I thought the Phoenix fit here cause like Namor said he doesnÂ’t have the power on his own to take on The Avengers

But that's not true. Namor DOES have power of his own to take on the Avengers. Aaron himself wrote Namor taking out the Avengers. Namor practically drowned the planet back in the 1940s with Atlantean tech, and just last year, we saw Atlantis still has this ability. So it's not like Atlantis couldn't deal with the surface world. We just have some modern writers ignoring what's established or / and jobbing Namor and the Atlanteans repeatedly.

As for Namor getting "duped" into fighting on the Avengers ... I've already posted how stupid I thought that was. Especially after last year's Invaders. WHY? Why? After all that Namor and Cap went through, WHY would Namor think that was a good idea????

And the final straw, is that Aaron probably is going to have Wolverine save the day and take on the Phoenix, since he's already had Phoenix Wolverine show up, hasn't he?

The idea that Namor "has the Phoenix phone" and can summon it at any time is ridiculous to me. Hopefully, it won't affect what Hickman and Ewing have planned for him in X-Men and Hulk.

I seriously doubt Hickman has anything planned for Namor. Not seeing Ewing doing much with Namor either. Though what would make the most sense is for a redux of Avengers 3, with Namor and Hulk taking out Roxxon and their supporters, the Avengers.

It would make Namor op as hell but the way I read it was that Namor having a past connection to the Phoenix Force is the reason why thereÂ’s some residual at the very least connection there to contact it. On top of the fact it has interest in Namor so itÂ’s of both their choosing

It IS the past possession of the Phoenix that would allow him to do this. However, that 'ember' Namor mentioned is also something Namor has repeatedly stated he hated. It was a violation. Also, Namor knows, that was 1/5th of the Phoenix. It makes no sense to think Namor wants to take on all of the Phoenix.

[Reviresco]

I dont know that it does flush it away. It puts him under the thrall of another manipulator character, but it doesnt contradict anything we've seen in Invaders. He's still angry, he's still a defender of the environment and he's still willing to go as far as needs be to do it.

It does flush Invaders, because all the positive things that happened in that series to restore Namor are being completely tossed for this Phoenix Namor redux. I mean, seriously. After Namor learns he's spent decades fighting the influence of an implant from Charles Xavier, he turns around and decides he needs to throw himself under the influence of the Phoenix??? Cause that worked out so well for him last time he got possessed by the Phoenix. Really???


I found Invaders and the stuff in Avengers not matching up in many places. For one thing, Defenders of the Deep didn't show up at all in the Invaders, despite Namor and Machan taking on the surface world. The relationship between Namor and Cap, which wasn't restored entirely, at least was on better footing. So, now Namor is just tossing that away? Because of some bartender??? Likewise, WHY isn't Cap and the Avengers doing anything about Roxxon? Especially after they violated Atlantis to help Roxxon previously and then learned??? remembered what scumbags Roxxon was in War of the Realms?

[Reviresco]

2.) I Love Marvel's Snapshots: Sub-Mariner, I posted about it on the Twitter since there's too many comic images for me to post here due to the limit. Seriously I was super worried they would make Betty different/mild mannered but they didn't, she was the angry spitfire I love, leaping right into the action when she could. Also Marvel acknowledging that Namor had/has PTSd from the war was good to see because he does have issues and he didn't leave the war the same person he was when he entered it. As a Betty/Namor fan I am heartbroken knowing just what happens later in their lives and seeing them so happy for a time. Also we get more info on how long Atlanteans live, which I don't think has ever been clear before. Seriously this book is a fave now.

YES!! Thank god for Snapshots. If I didn't have this gem of a book today, I probably would have just given up on Marvel today.

And I agree. I don't know where those reviews were getting mild mannered Betty Dean. She was her usual ... passionate and outspoken self. I love her. I wish a period book would sell. I'd totally buy a Namor and Betty adventure book, like the old Atlas books.

I was surprised by Tha-Korr's age. I think most the guides I've seen have said something like 150 years for Atlantean life spans. Of course, even that dooms their relationship.

I can't believe they went with the Shark! LOL! The guy that stole Namor's swimming trunks!

Did you catch the Everett's Tavern? I loved the nod, but I'm not sure a bar was the best choice. Even if it may have been the most true. I'm definitely going to read this several times as I'm sure there were other cool connections.

[Thor-El]

Well, I read both new Namor stories yesterday and enjoyed them. I have to say I'm intrigued by what Aaron is doing with Namor. At last we finally get an explanation of Namor's creepy eyes. This can end up with Namor rejoining the Avengers and finally making peace for good with Tchala, maybe I'm being too optimistic but only time will tell.

For Snapshots even though I have my reservations with Namor's portrayal in it I loved to see Betty Dean's portrayal and some insight into her family. She also had a sister Namor helped out on a golden age story we discussed some time ago in the Readathon thread that was absent from the family reunion. It was also hilarious they used the guy that stole Namor's trunks as the main villain. I just thought Namor should have been able to dispatch this lowlife easily without the need of the All Winners Squad, I mean it just makes Namor look like a very inept hero when a full group of superheroes is necessary to keep him from causing chaos. I can believe it necessary with a major threat like The Sentry or Thanos that he would need the backup, the Namor that served with the Invaders and the All Winners should have been able to have a fight and protect civilians without the need of his teammates to babysit him.

[Mormegil]

I've been following a reading order/podcast called My Marvelous Year where they take a look at what they consider to be the 10 most important stories (not issues) for each year in marvel and we're up to 1982.

The podcast has a march madness bracket going on for favorite characters and I'm the only Namor fan around.

The poll is open to anyone, you don't have to be a patron to vote, although i think you have to make a free account.

Its Namor v Reed today and Namor is just barely winning. If he wins here he'll go up against Dr. Strange and then Cap. If you have time go vote for Namor!

Namor vs Reed

[Reviresco]

I've been following a reading order/podcast called My Marvelous Year where they take a look at what they consider to be the 10 most important stories (not issues) for each year in marvel and we're up to 1982.

The podcast has a march madness bracket going on for favorite characters and I'm the only Namor fan around.

The poll is open to anyone, you don't have to be a patron to vote, although i think you have to make a free account.

Its Namor v Reed today and Namor is just barely winning. If he wins here he'll go up against Dr. Strange and then Cap. If you have time go vote for Namor!

Namor vs Reed

I tried to vote, but I don't see a submit button. I logged in with my Google account, though and didn't create an account, so maybe that's it?

It looks like a cool patreon.

[Reviresco]

Well, I read both new Namor stories yesterday and enjoyed them. I have to say I'm intrigued by what Aaron is doing with Namor. At last we finally get an explanation of Namor's creepy eyes. This can end up with Namor rejoining the Avengers and finally making peace for good with Tchala, maybe I'm being too optimistic but only time will tell.

I missed that. What was the explanation for Namor's entirely blacked out eyes?

I have to say, Thor-El, I think you are beyond optimistic if you think post Phoenix Namor 2 that T'challa and Namor are going to make peace. ;p I think it is far more likely Aaron will prop up T'challa by having him kill of Namor. And I just don't care for Aaron's dialog or handling of Namor. I complain about Hickman's breaking of Namor as a character without returning him to the toy box restored, BUT, Hickman wrote a smart Namor with a cutting wit, and great speeches. However, if you enjoyed Aaron's Avengers, I'm glad for you.

For Snapshots even though I have my reservations with Namor's portrayal in it I loved to see Betty Dean's portrayal and some insight into her family. She also had a sister Namor helped out on a golden age story we discussed some time ago in the Readathon thread that was absent from the family reunion. It was also hilarious they used the guy that stole Namor's trunks as the main villain. I just thought Namor should have been able to dispatch this lowlife easily without the need of the All Winners Squad, I mean it just makes Namor look like a very inept hero when a full group of superheroes is necessary to keep him from causing chaos. I can believe it necessary with a major threat like The Sentry or Thanos that he would need the backup, the Namor that served with the Invaders and the All Winners should have been able to have a fight and protect civilians without the need of his teammates to babysit him.

Namor didn't need the All Winners Squad to take out the Shark. It was Betty who called them in to save the park and civilians. And Namor's disregard for his surroundings and the people, was actually the point of the story. The PSTD and rage about the German concentration camps were affecting his decisions and actions.

I clearly need to re-read those Golden Age stories. I didn't recall Betty Dean's family either.

[Mormegil]

I tried to vote, but I don't see a submit button. I logged in with my Google account, though and didn't create an account, so maybe that's it?

It looks like a cool patreon.

Thank you for trying. You just click on the box and it works. Not sure if you need a Patreon account or not.

Give the podcast a try if you do those. One of the hosts runs Comic Book Herald. They are pretty entertaining and its interesting hearing what they have to say about the issues even if you didn't read them.

[Thor-El]

I missed that. What was the explanation for Namor's entirely blacked out eyes?

I have to say, Thor-El, I think you are beyond optimistic if you think post Phoenix Namor 2 that T'challa and Namor are going to make peace. ;p I think it is far more likely Aaron will prop up T'challa by having him kill of Namor. And I just don't care for Aaron's dialog or handling of Namor. I complain about Hickman's breaking of Namor as a character without returning him to the toy box restored, BUT, Hickman wrote a smart Namor with a cutting wit, and great speeches. However, if you enjoyed Aaron's Avengers, I'm glad for you.

Well, I didn't enjoy when he had Namor almost kill his friend Stingray and I was pretty vocal about it. I also didn't enjoy the new costume and look which I think debuted in his Avengers if I remember well. But the power up and him being able to singlehandedly defeat a group of the most powerful Avengers I did enjoy. I also am enjoying that he is using Roxxon & Mephisto, two of my favorite villains in the Marvel Universe. Plus he has the Squadron Supreme as a villainous group as IMO should be. All those elements I like. Only time will tell if I will really like the way Aaron handles Namor, I'm only giving him the benefit of the doubt because I think we are slowly getting some clues and Mephisto is a master manipulator and the Phoenix force also will cloud your judgement. In a way is a continuation of the Professor X/ Machlan mind screwing that everyone seem to be doing with Namor lately but at least Namor is not seen as a little kid that everyone gives a speech to and reprimands like I noticed happened in the last Invaders.

About the black eyes, to me was kind of a big deal visually in the last pages how they lightened up when he called the Phoenix Force so it seemed that some way the connection with that force is what is causing the weird eyes. I could be misinterpreting this though.

didn't need the All Winners Squad to take out the Shark. It was Betty who called them in to save the park and civilians. And Namor's disregard for his surroundings and the people, was actually the point of the story. The PSTD and rage about the German concentration camps were affecting his decisions and actions.

I know Namor didn't need them to take out the Shark but that they needed to save the civilians because Namor was being so careless. My point being that for a young brass inexperienced Namor this would fly but for a superhero that had already served in WW2 it made him seem too careless. I guess the PTSD might be a reason to excuse him since he saw the horrors he describes in the story up close and those memories were still very fresh. [/QUOTE]

I clearly need to re-read those Golden Age stories. I didn't recall Betty Dean's family either.

That's the story from Marvel Mystery Comics #28 where her sister's husband, who had killed a man in a fight and was on the run with her was mixed up with a crook named Falkon that Namor was after. The crook ends up being killed by Namor at the end of the story but Namor lets Peggy's sister husband escape at her request so perhaps she was still on the run with him.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...adathon/page28

[ImperiusWrecked]

I've been following a reading order/podcast called My Marvelous Year where they take a look at what they consider to be the 10 most important stories (not issues) for each year in marvel and we're up to 1982.

The podcast has a march madness bracket going on for favorite characters and I'm the only Namor fan around.

The poll is open to anyone, you don't have to be a patron to vote, although i think you have to make a free account.

Its Namor v Reed today and Namor is just barely winning. If he wins here he'll go up against Dr. Strange and then Cap. If you have time go vote for Namor!

Namor vs Reed

I just voted and it looks like Namor has pulled ahead in the vote! Thanks for the link!

YES!! Thank god for Snapshots. If I didn't have this gem of a book today, I probably would have just given up on Marvel today.

And I agree. I don't know where those reviews were getting mild mannered Betty Dean. She was her usual ... passionate and outspoken self. I love her. I wish a period book would sell. I'd totally buy a Namor and Betty adventure book, like the old Atlas books.

I was surprised by Tha-Korr's age. I think most the guides I've seen have said something like 150 years for Atlantean life spans. Of course, even that dooms their relationship.

I can't believe they went with the Shark! LOL! The guy that stole Namor's swimming trunks!

Did you catch the Everett's Tavern? I loved the nod, but I'm not sure a bar was the best choice. Even if it may have been the most true. I'm definitely going to read this several times as I'm sure there were other cool connections.

I literally was like: OMFG THE SHARK. Like when they ripped off the shark suit, at first I thought it was someone they made up for the story but they really went old school with the villain! I did see that and I agree, it was like a bittersweet nod to the fact that Everett did have alchol issues. Still I don't think they creators meant to do any more than just have his name as a tribute. LOL first we had the Fish Truck in Invaders, and the Diner in HULK, and now this. I am glad when people remember Everett because I feel he doesn't get the same recognition as Stan or Jack.

Honestly I NEED Marvel to give us a book solely filled with things like Atlantean facts, how long they live, different notable Atlanteans, the day to day lives of normal citizens and their culture. I want to know more about Empress Ritha who was the only female ruler of seas, or was she the only sole female ruler. I need pages with like a family tree showing us all of Namor's family and royal members of court. More history about Atlantis and their gods and the great cataclysm that isn't three or four different stories by different authors. We need a single comprehensive history and why Atlanteans have such a dislike for clones. I feel there's so much potential there.

But I would totally buy a Atlas Era Namor book, or just any book that focuses on Namor only!

I missed that. What was the explanation for Namor's entirely blacked out eyes?

I have to say, Thor-El, I think you are beyond optimistic if you think post Phoenix Namor 2 that T'challa and Namor are going to make peace. ;p I think it is far more likely Aaron will prop up T'challa by having him kill of Namor. And I just don't care for Aaron's dialog or handling of Namor. I complain about Hickman's breaking of Namor as a character without returning him to the toy box restored, BUT, Hickman wrote a smart Namor with a cutting wit, and great speeches. However, if you enjoyed Aaron's Avengers, I'm glad for you.


Namor didn't need the All Winners Squad to take out the Shark. It was Betty who called them in to save the park and civilians. And Namor's disregard for his surroundings and the people, was actually the point of the story. The PSTD and rage about the German concentration camps were affecting his decisions and actions.

I clearly need to re-read those Golden Age stories. I didn't recall Betty Dean's family either.

It was implied that Namor's eyes turned black because of the power he stole from Hydro-Man. It was shown in issue one of Invaders iirc because his eyes were normal but then turned Black when they used the power.

The reason why I cut Hickman a bit more slack than others is because he wrote a Namor who under a great deal of stress and reacting to a world that might have died at any moment. He was struggling. But also Hickman escalated the Wakanda Vs Atlantis stuff and we are still dealing with that fall out, which is why I don't want Namor to be near Black Panther or the Phoenix for the sake of his character development. Not sure how Aaron will play this out but I refuse to believe Namor, who HATED being made a pawn of the Phoenix and still suffers from the trauma of being a host would ever willingly call the Phoenix to come back with open arms. If there's one thing I know about Namor, it's that he hates being a pawn or under the influence of another person. It is always "his way or not at all". He can see comprise at times but no way would he ever put himself in someone else's power.