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  1. #1666
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Now, if Ove is a son of Namor and Enchantress, he could be even stronger than Thor and Hercules. Ove also seems to carry a trident and so would have a weapon with which to counter Mjolnir and Mace.
    I doubt Ove would be more powerful than Thor or Hercules, as they are gods of strength, more powerful than other gods that are their peers and family.

    Namor does already have a weapon that is a counter to Thor's Mjolnir, the Trident of Neptune. He just never uses the damn thing. This is a divine weapon of great power which can even control the sea. Writers have been completely asleep on this for decades. (Why would Namor need HyrdoMan's powers if he already possessed the Trident of Neptune for instance) I mean, it's barely ever even drawn the same by artists because they have no idea of the importance and power of the weapon, it's just a gold trident to them. Imagine if artists drew Mjolnir differently on every cover and every new story arc.
    Last edited by Doombot; 11-22-2020 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #1667
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I never heard Namor referred to as a demi-god, not by Marvel, Namor or any Atlantean.

    When fighting both Thor and Hercules, they would mention their godhood. Namor never mentioned anything about his and they seemed to deem him as a mortal, albeit an aquatic one.

    That is why I always Marveled at how well Namor always held his own when fighting them!
    Namor claims several times in the comics that his royal blood is descended from Neptune, so technically that would make him some sort of demi god, not to mention he is favored by Cleito and Neptune. Marvel just never cares to follow up on anything and keep his status as humanmutant/atlantean hybrid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I've mentioned before in the thread how I feel Namor is like a demi-god, as he is more akin to the actual mythic Achilles, Hercules or Perseus (where I also believe the winged feet were inspired from) and while neither of his parents were divine, his mother's bloodline is and the nature of his hybrid birth gave him his powers. It's very mythic is it's feel, and will always be far more interesting than Namor just being another mutant. (which I completely disregard in my own headcannon)
    If you have ever read Fire and Water: Bill Everett, The Sub-Mariner, and the Birth of Marvel Comics, Bill talks briefly about his inspiration for the wings. Marvel needs to lean into the mysticism of Atlantis/Neptune and other sea based deities and more sea myths from around the world imo.

    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  3. #1668
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I doubt Ove would be more powerful than Thor or Hercules, as they are gods of strength, more powerful than other gods that are their peers and family.

    Namor does already have a weapon that is a counter to Thor's Mjolnir, the Trident of Neptune. He just never uses the damn thing. This is a divine weapon of great power which can even control the sea. Writers have been completely asleep on this for decades. (Why would Namor need HyrdoMan's powers if he already possessed the Trident of Neptune for instance) I mean, it's barely ever even drawn the same by artists because they have no idea of the importance and power of the weapon, it's just a gold trident to them. Imagine if artists drew Mjolnir differently on every cover and every new story arc.
    There was a whole arc about the Trident of Neptune in the 60s and while I like the different looks of tridents, and seeing different artists interpretations (who says Namor can't have more than one?) lol. But I agree that there needs to be some kind of consistency through out and honestly the more you dissect the Zdarsky run of Invaders you can find more issues with how he portrays Namor especially with the water power thing. As you said Namor's trident is a mystical weapon that is mainly used for stabbing people and not the powers it wields.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  4. #1669
    Mighty Member Thor-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I never heard Namor referred to as a demi-god, not by Marvel, Namor or any Atlantean.

    When fighting both Thor and Hercules, they would mention their godhood. Namor never mentioned anything about his and they seemed to deem him as a mortal, albeit an aquatic one.

    That is why I always Marveled at how well Namor always held his own when fighting them!
    I agree, Namor is not a demigod. A demigod is a child of an union of a god with a human, in the case of Hercules, Zeus with a mortal. Princess Fen is not a demigod just a normal Atlantean (Homo-mermanus) princess. Everett even hints at Fen having human blood herself in the golden age. Namor as a mutant is established early in the silver age, as early as his first appearance in the X-Men when Pietro and Wanda were part of Magneto's brotherhood. So no, not demigod, at all, just a very powerful mutant.

    About the trident, I dislike having all the different designs and no consistency. There is a great design used by John Buscema in Sub-mariner #1, that's the one everyone should be drawing.
    Last edited by Thor-El; 11-23-2020 at 09:38 AM.

  5. #1670
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El View Post
    I agree, Namor is not a demigod. A demigod is a child of an union of a god with a human, in the case of Hercules, Zeus with a mortal. Princess Fen is not a demigod just a normal Atlantean (Homo-mermanus) princess. Everett even hints at Fen having human blood herself in the golden age. Namor as a mutant is established early in the silver age, as early as his first appearance in the X-Men when Pietro and Wanda were part of Magneto's brotherhood. So no, not demigod, at all, just a very powerful mutant.

    About the trident, I dislike having all the different designs and no consistency. There is a great design used by John Buscema in Sub-mariner #1, that's the one everyone should be drawing.
    Thank you for the backup info, because I am not as well-versed with Namor's original stories as you and Rev and a few others. But I knew from all of my readings, yeah, Namor is no demi-god. But that is okay--he does not have to be! It always made me think of how great and powerful Namor was to have held his own with the likes of Thor and Hercules!

    I also agree with you Thor-El that there should be a standard Trident look, perhaps with only minor fluctuations between artists. But the overall design should remain the same. The only time it should ever appear totally different is if there are different Tridents being used, like if Namora or Namorita needed one for some reason. Their Tridents could look different from Namor's Trident.

  6. #1671
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Namor claims several times in the comics that his royal blood is descended from Neptune, so technically that would make him some sort of demi god, not to mention he is favored by Cleito and Neptune. Marvel just never cares to follow up on anything and keep his status as humanmutant/atlantean hybrid.

    If you have ever read Fire and Water: Bill Everett, The Sub-Mariner, and the Birth of Marvel Comics, Bill talks briefly about his inspiration for the wings. Marvel needs to lean into the mysticism of Atlantis/Neptune and other sea based deities and more sea myths from around the world imo.
    It sort of makes Namor a semi-demi-god, or a demi-demi-god lol

    Mercury/Hermes and Perseus both have the Talaria or winged sandals, though often Mercury is depicted as Namor, with the wings right out of his ankles.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    There was a whole arc about the Trident of Neptune in the 60s and while I like the different looks of tridents, and seeing different artists interpretations (who says Namor can't have more than one?) lol. But I agree that there needs to be some kind of consistency through out and honestly the more you dissect the Zdarsky run of Invaders you can find more issues with how he portrays Namor especially with the water power thing. As you said Namor's trident is a mystical weapon that is mainly used for stabbing people and not the powers it wields.
    Yeah that's the giant gingerbread cookie looking trident, an awful design better left in those old stories. I wish the terrible pointy crown and red fur cape were left behind like that trident has been. Sure, Namor can have more than one trident, but only one is the symbol of his power as king and that's the Trident of Neptune. And the only Trident of Neptune that matters (to me) is the Buscema version, seen on Sub-Mariner #1.

  7. #1672
    Mighty Member Thor-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Thank you for the backup info, because I am not as well-versed with Namor's original stories as you and Rev and a few others. But I knew from all of my readings, yeah, Namor is no demi-god. But that is okay--he does not have to be! It always made me think of how great and powerful Namor was to have held his own with the likes of Thor and Hercules!

    I also agree with you Thor-El that there should be a standard Trident look, perhaps with only minor fluctuations between artists. But the overall design should remain the same. The only time it should ever appear totally different is if there are different Tridents being used, like if Namora or Namorita needed one for some reason. Their Tridents could look different from Namor's Trident.
    Exactly, I will never forget Hercules marveling at how brave Namor was throwing himself at an uber strong berserker Hulk with no Banner brain, in the middle of the desert almost power depleted. Namor has often excelled at taking on opponents apparently well above his power level. I think what he lacks in raw strength he makes up in bravery. And sometimes that is enough to shift the odds in his favor.


  8. #1673
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El View Post
    Exactly, I will never forget Hercules marveling at how brave Namor was throwing himself at an uber strong berserker Hulk with no Banner brain, in the middle of the desert almost power depleted. Namor has often excelled at taking on opponents apparently well above his power level. I think what he lacks in raw strength he makes up in bravery. And sometimes that is enough to shift the odds in his favor.

    A most excellent example.

    Hercules and Namor have fought many times and I never remember Hercules with a clean win. Namor has the strength but he may have to call upon it more or harder than Herc does to get up to his peak strength level.

  9. #1674
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Doombot please keep invoking Namor's Trident because the Art Gods have heard you and this beautiful piece of work just showed up today.

    Art by Mike McKone
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #1675
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    It sort of makes Namor a semi-demi-god, or a demi-demi-god lol

    Mercury/Hermes and Perseus both have the Talaria or winged sandals, though often Mercury is depicted as Namor, with the wings right out of his ankles.



    Yeah that's the giant gingerbread cookie looking trident, an awful design better left in those old stories. I wish the terrible pointy crown and red fur cape were left behind like that trident has been. Sure, Namor can have more than one trident, but only one is the symbol of his power as king and that's the Trident of Neptune. And the only Trident of Neptune that matters (to me) is the Buscema version, seen on Sub-Mariner #1.
    I do agree that there is only one trident that is like THE trident, I just wish Marvel cared enough to point that out as well. I can't really blame the artists because to be honest when was the last time anyone ever saw the actual trident in the comics? I will have to check back to see when was the last time it was used, but it has seem to have fallen out of collective memory except for us fans. Maybe someday we will get a die hard Namor fan as an artist who goes the extra mile and shows us stuff like his Trident.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  11. #1676
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Doombot please keep invoking Namor's Trident because the Art Gods have heard you and this beautiful piece of work just showed up today.

    Art by Mike McKone
    Well, there you go! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I do agree that there is only one trident that is like THE trident, I just wish Marvel cared enough to point that out as well. I can't really blame the artists because to be honest when was the last time anyone ever saw the actual trident in the comics? I will have to check back to see when was the last time it was used, but it has seem to have fallen out of collective memory except for us fans. Maybe someday we will get a die hard Namor fan as an artist who goes the extra mile and shows us stuff like his Trident.
    It was used recently, I just can't remember which book or artist. It was also used by Funko for their Namor pop figure, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

  12. #1677
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Well, there you go! lol

    It was used recently, I just can't remember which book or artist. It was also used by Funko for their Namor pop figure, which I was pleasantly surprised by.
    Oh yes! I have two of those funkos, lol. I think the Invaders cover with Namor and Professor X might have it on there as well? Anyways. I think that the Trident and the other Atlantean artifacts are always being forgotten unless its being used by other series, the serpent crown thing originated in Namor's book, yet there is a whole series about conan and the crown.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  13. #1678
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Oh yes! I have two of those funkos, lol. I think the Invaders cover with Namor and Professor X might have it on there as well? Anyways. I think that the Trident and the other Atlantean artifacts are always being forgotten unless its being used by other series, the serpent crown thing originated in Namor's book, yet there is a whole series about conan and the crown.
    It's pretty heartbreaking. Poor Namor and his world, always a bridesmaid never a rightful king of Atlantis.

  14. #1679
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Some artists doing the Trident justice:

    Alan Davis:


    Steve Epting:


    Bob Budiansky:


  15. #1680
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    This guy made a replica Trident for himself.

    https://www.gsprops.net/namor


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