Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[Iron Maiden]

Speaking of a ... more sympathetic view of Namor the environmentalist. I found this coolness on twitter.







https://twitter.com/SEA_SEIS/status/...864216064?s=20

It's a seismometer that has been sitting on the floor of the North Atlantic off the coast of Ireland, taking readings! It's part of "SEA-SEIS: Structure, Evolution and Seismicity of the Irish offshore. A research project that deployed broadband OBSs across a vast area in the North Atlantic." They were all named by Italian and Irish school kids the research project had video links / classes with. Obviously they have some cool school kids in Ireland.


Here's a map of where Namor the Seismometer was stationed.

This is so amazing! What a great name. And I see Namor's seismometer is near one named Ligea, one of the three sirens that tried to tempt Ulysses. They typically lured sailors to their deaths.

[Electricmastro]

Sure, blame Namor. ;p

The Grand Design books aren't in continuity. They are kind of an artist's head canon. A way for them to slot everything into their interpretation of Marvel's continuity. The Namor panels are not the only ones that are not correct.

Although, one of these Grand Designs, IIRC, had a nice Superman homage with Namor, which is entirely appropriate, since the Ultraman of the Deep was created as an answer to DC's Superman.

Well regardless of his own story being canon or not, the interesting thing for me is the point of Namor flooding New York, which not only has been shown as far back as Human Torch #5b, but has also been reinforced in much later stories such as Marvels and The Marvels Project. I definitely think that Namor’s attitude in general shouldn’t be ignored regardless how canon or whatever you want to call the progression of events in the Marvel Universe play out, because I think that no matter what, I’m sure it’s understandable enough to say that he has still had a big effect on it.

[Reviresco]

Well regardless of his own story being canon or not, the interesting thing for me is the point of Namor flooding New York, which not only has been shown as far back as Human Torch #5b, but has also been reinforced in much later stories such as Marvels and The Marvels Project. I definitely think that Namor’s attitude in general shouldn’t be ignored regardless how canon or whatever you want to call the progression of events in the Marvel Universe play out, because I think that no matter what, I’m sure it’s understandable enough to say that he has still had a big effect on it.

Actually, Human Torch 5b is the first time it was ever shown, and it wasn't just NYC it was the entire world. And my own personal view is that it should have stayed back in it's crazy, over the top, cracktastic Golden Age Timely Comics era. It made zero sense even in that era, but in the more 'realistic' era of Marvel Comics, it's even worse. If Namor could flood out Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy and Hirohito's Japan in Human Torch 5b -- which he did -- then why did they even fight WWII? Why would the US NOT treat Atlantis as a worse enemy than the Japanese, considering both were surprise attacks on the US?

Nor was the event exactly reinforced by Marvels and The Marvels Project -- it was instead added back to the Marvel Comics era. Remember, Golden Age stories aren't canon until they get told / referenced in Marvel Comics era stories -- they are comic book stories from the 1940s in the MU. Marvels was the first place time this Golden Age story was ever mentioned. Neither Stan Lee or Roy Thomas or John Byrne or any other writer referred to the incident in any retelling of Namor's history, from his introduction in FF 4. And then The Marvels Project messed things up even further, by adding in Cap and saying there were mass causalities -- neither of which was in the original Golden Age story or in Marvels.

You are right about Timely era young Namor's attitude and the large effect he's had on the Marvel Comics era, and comics themselves, even though many, including Marvel itself, don't realize it / refuse to acknowledge it. Even without the flood, Marvels does, as well the title of First Mutant -- which gets no end of argument from a large segment of comic fans. They show the birth of superheros for the public was Namor and the Torch.

The character itself, and Bill Everett, have had a large effect on comics, Marvel in particular, which again, is rarely acknowledged. The most major being, the first anti-hero -- one which Wolverine and Punisher directly descend from.

[Reviresco]

This is so amazing! What a great name. And I see Namor's seismometer is near one named Ligea, one of the three sirens that tried to tempt Ulysses. They typically lured sailors to their deaths.

I agree! I love it when real life marine stuff references Namor. Also, I generally love marine / oceanography stuff.


I didn't remember that about Ligea, but another great name, from one of the Italian schools, I'm betting.

[DrNewGod]

[B]NAMOR WEEK 2020

DAY 2 Team Up Pick your favorite Namor Team Up, since he’s been on so many teams there’s lots to choose from: Defenders, Invaders, Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men, Cabal, or do a team up you would like to see happen!

The Invaders are a close second for me, but unquestionably, The Defenders. They just suit Namor's "I'm not part of your surface-dweller's system" vibe.

Image.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

I agree! I love it when real life marine stuff references Namor. Also, I generally love marine / oceanography stuff.


I didn't remember that about Ligea, but another great name, from one of the Italian schools, I'm betting.

Yes, I would guess that might be right. At first when I saw the name I confused it with the Vincent Price movie Tomb of Ligeia, one of those films that are very loosely based on an Edgar Allen Poe piece. But then I noticed the spelling is different.


As for the team of the week, I'm all for another SVTU. But next would be Invaders since they go back to WWII days

[Devaishwarya]

Jae Lee is my favourite Namor artist doing my favourite Namor run.
Namor by Jae Lee 01.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

Jae Lee has such a memorable style but it has changed over the years though. He later revisted the character of Namor in the mini series Fantastic Four 1234


This is one of my favorite Namor moments, when he is repelled by the fact that Doom views Namor to be on par with the Mole Man.








The only thing I didn't like was Morrison revisiting the Namor / Sue pairing.

[Electricmastro]

Actually, Human Torch 5b is the first time it was ever shown, and it wasn't just NYC it was the entire world. And my own personal view is that it should have stayed back in it's crazy, over the top, cracktastic Golden Age Timely Comics era. It made zero sense even in that era, but in the more 'realistic' era of Marvel Comics, it's even worse. If Namor could flood out Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy and Hirohito's Japan in Human Torch 5b -- which he did -- then why did they even fight WWII? Why would the US NOT treat Atlantis as a worse enemy than the Japanese, considering both were surprise attacks on the US?

Nor was the event exactly reinforced by Marvels and The Marvels Project -- it was instead added back to the Marvel Comics era. Remember, Golden Age stories aren't canon until they get told / referenced in Marvel Comics era stories -- they are comic book stories from the 1940s in the MU. Marvels was the first place time this Golden Age story was ever mentioned. Neither Stan Lee or Roy Thomas or John Byrne or any other writer referred to the incident in any retelling of Namor's history, from his introduction in FF 4. And then The Marvels Project messed things up even further, by adding in Cap and saying there were mass causalities -- neither of which was in the original Golden Age story or in Marvels.

You are right about Timely era young Namor's attitude and the large effect he's had on the Marvel Comics era, and comics themselves, even though many, including Marvel itself, don't realize it / refuse to acknowledge it. Even without the flood, Marvels does, as well the title of First Mutant -- which gets no end of argument from a large segment of comic fans. They show the birth of superheros for the public was Namor and the Torch.

The character itself, and Bill Everett, have had a large effect on comics, Marvel in particular, which again, is rarely acknowledged. The most major being, the first anti-hero -- one which Wolverine and Punisher directly descend from.

And the main point being that mutants like Namor, as well as Magneto, have helped fueled the fear towards mutants in the Marvel Universe, not that it justifies atrocities, but could potentially serve as a basis for a nuanced , and perhaps productive, analysis considering how mutants are said to reflect real life minorities (Professor X being a reflection of Martin Luther King for example). The way Marvel has gone about it tends to gear towards the extreme though.

[Doombot]

How exactly did Namor flood NY (or the world), I don't really remember if it was ever explained. For that matter, how did Namor flood tiny, land-locked Wakanda? Was there an explanation for that ridiculousness?

[Reviresco]

How exactly did Namor flood NY (or the world), I don't really remember if it was ever explained. For that matter, how did Namor flood tiny, land-locked Wakanda? Was there an explanation for that ridiculousness?

IIRC, in the Golden Age, and I guess Marvels, Namor used Atlantean technology. Which should also mean that the Atlanteans have had the tech to defend themselves / conquer the world since 1940. Of course, that has been ignored. Repeatedly.

Phoenix Namor flooded Wakanda in AvX with the Phoenix force, using the water from Lake Wakanda. Of course, now that I think about it, since the world flooding in the Golden Age Human Torch 5b was put into continuity, that may have been the second time Namor flooded Wakanda. I'll have to check the issue. I remember Ka-Zar having to load up an ark full of animals in Africa, in that issue.

[Electricmastro]

IIRC, in the Golden Age, and I guess Marvels, Namor used Atlantean technology. Which should also mean that the Atlanteans have had the tech to defend themselves / conquer the world since 1940. Of course, that has been ignored. Repeatedly.

Phoenix Namor flooded Wakanda in AvX with the Phoenix force, using the water from Lake Wakanda. Of course, now that I think about it, since the world flooding in the Golden Age Human Torch 5b was put into continuity, that may have been the second time Namor flooded Wakanda. I'll have to check the issue. I remember Ka-Zar having to load up an ark full of animals in Africa, in that issue.

As well as attempting to use Giganto to destroy New York.





A bonus image while I’m at it.

[Reviresco]

As well as attempting to use Giganto to destroy New York.

Except Namor is not attempting to destroy NYC on those pages from FF #149.

Now if you are talking about FF #4, let's remember that Namor woke Giganto, because the surface world had destroyed, not attempted to destroy, Atlantis with atomic testing.

[Electricmastro]

Except Namor is not attempting to destroy NYC on those pages from FF #149.

And I repeat, not the point.

Now if you are talking about FF #4, let's remember that Namor woke Giganto

Very much the point.

[Doombot]

What a great splash page that is.