Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[ImperiusWrecked]

I finally got my copy of The Art of John Buscema. The book is mostly an illustrated interview and very slim but I managed to learn several things about Buscema I didn't know. For once he wanted to be a boxer and he started training to be one until he realized he could earn more money drawing. He always loved boxing through his life. Another thing is he liked drawing his characters huge like bodybuilders, and that's one of the reasons he enjoyed Conan so much. He disliked drawing superheroes but he mentions Thor as one he didn't mind to draw, Thor was huge and had the historical theme he also mentions he likes drawing with the vikings etc.

I believe if he had left to his creativity in order to enjoy drawing Namor we would have gotten a bulkier Namor and a lot of historical Greco Roman Atlantis which would have been fine by me!

and this discussion reminds me that we are exactly two months from the publication of this comic, which I'm really curious about.

Congrats on your new acquisition Thor-El! I'm still reserved on the Serpent Crown arc, imo Marvel loves to use Atlantean artifacts and stuff while cutting Namor out of the process so I hope we get more than a one time cameo if/when Namor shows in that book. I should really catch up, I've fallen behind on my readings.

[ImperiusWrecked]

What would you guys say is the Sub-Mariner’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

Attuma, Tiger Shark, Llyra, Llyron, Orka, Krang, Byrrah, Dr Dorcas, Tyrak, Doctor Doom

For me a Namor Rogue has to have: An impact in Namor's books, recurring role, impact on the character.

Llyra, Tiger Shark, Attuma, Krang, Byrrah, Roxxon. I chose them because they are the most recurring and long standing Rogues Namor has.

I want to throw in Suma-Ket and Artys-Gran but they haven't been seen in ages. Same for Dr. Dorcas and Dr. Hydro, both characters have not been used in some time so they are more like reserve Rogues. Destiny is more of a Plot Villain to me, because he is used to explain why/how Namor lost his memory but he's dead so I'm not counting on him to return and there really isn't any point for him to do so. Doctor Doom is more of a frenemy than a Rogue.

I do not consider Black Panther to be a Namor Rogue because Black Panther has no huge roles in any of Namor's comics, any major interactions/fights that Black Panther and Namor have has always been in Black Panther or team books. The impact on Namor's character has been Namor in the wrong/being blamed for stuff so its more like Namor is a Black Panther Rogue even though it makes no sense other than Marvel wanting to pit them against each other.

Boy do I miss when heroes actually talked to one another, instead punching each other because of author-inserted shock value. The Wakanda-Atlantis conflict should have never existed. It should have never escalated, and it's not a good look for either of the parties. Namor is a king. He may be hotheaded, but a king no less. No good king seeks out war like a bloodthirsty hound.

Atlantis and Wakanda have more in common than they do in opposition, both Nations are isolated and made it hard for the outsiders to find them, both have highly advanced tech, both have dealt with outsiders trying to use/destroy them. They really should be Kings who are allies.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree with you IW.....Wakanda and Atlantis should have treaties, diplomatic relations, etc. This is what real nations do to avoid misunderstandings that can lead to unnecessary hostilities.

Boy do I miss when heroes actually talked to one another, instead punching each other because of author-inserted shock value. The Wakanda-Atlantis conflict should have never existed. It should have never escalated, and it's not a good look for either of the parties. Namor is a king. He may be hotheaded, but a king no less. No good king seeks out war like a bloodthirsty hound.

I really miss it too. A few writers are doing that... but I have a small pull list these days (esp now that there are no new comics to buy ) Namor has the experience and the maturity to deal with affairs of state. He's been around since before WWII.

[K7P5V]

What would you guys say is the Sub-Mariner’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

Attuma, Tiger Shark, Llyra, Llyron, Orka, Krang, Byrrah, Dr Dorcas, Tyrak, Doctor Doom

Great list, but don't forget...

Headhunter





Desmond Marrs





Master Khan

[DrNewGod]

Boy do I miss when heroes actually talked to one another, instead punching each other because of author-inserted shock value. The Wakanda-Atlantis conflict should have never existed. It should have never escalated, and it's not a good look for either of the parties. Namor is a king. He may be hotheaded, but a king no less. No good king seeks out war like a bloodthirsty hound.

Uhhhh, not fair. Heroes misunderstanding and punching it out (even when they already know each other) is a cliche for a reason.

[Thor-El]

I think one thing that Doom regrets is that he really ruined that relationship with Namor all by himself. Doom had encountered him during two of Namor's bouts of amnesia and both times they ended up in an alliance again (Sub-Mariner 47-49 & Namor My favorite one is the Gerry Conway story in Sub-Mariner 47-49 when Namor was forced to help Doom acquire the Cosmic Cube.



I think they are long overdue for another encounter. But I can understand that the relationship between Namor and Cap goes back quite a ways and their alliance occured at a crucial time in history. Cap tries to be keep Namor on the side of justice and that's something that should endure. I really didn't like that build up of animosity between Namor and Black Panther and that should be remedied by the reboot in the aftermath of Secret Wars IMO.

And now you make me want to read those wonderful silver age issues I have been saving for after I finish the Golden Age. I need to start getting my reading up to date. Love those Gene Colan panels you have posted there! Agree 100% on your vision of Cap as the friend that always steers you in the right direction. I see Doom as a "friend" that only wants to use you to serve his purposes. I always like when Namor wakes up and finally they both go at each other's throats.

[Thor-El]

And it the end it was Namor and T'Challa coming to a meeting of the minds instead of war and devastation

Love this art and the way the artist draws the Atlanteans. I haven't read this story but I have these books wishlisted in Comixology

[Thor-El]

Atlantis and Wakanda have more in common than they do in opposition, both Nations are isolated and made it hard for the outsiders to find them, both have highly advanced tech, both have dealt with outsiders trying to use/destroy them. They really should be Kings who are allies.

Exactly, for all those reasons makes more sense they are allies. If not Namor is only going to be used as a villain and end up loosing every time he goes against Black Panther or be terribly wrong while Panther is totally right about whatever is they are arguing, at least most of the times, because Black Panther is a hugely popular character right now.

[XPac]

Boy do I miss when heroes actually talked to one another, instead punching each other because of author-inserted shock value. The Wakanda-Atlantis conflict should have never existed. It should have never escalated, and it's not a good look for either of the parties. Namor is a king. He may be hotheaded, but a king no less. No good king seeks out war like a bloodthirsty hound.

Arguably the only reason the Atlantis/Wakanda conflict existed was because Namor was possessed by the PHoenix. There were outside influences at work there. And that's typically the case when Namor decides to attack the surface world in general. Not that Namor is a sweet heart under normal circumstances... but AvX can probalby be looked at more as an outlyer in regards to Namors diplomacy.

[Iron Maiden]

Arguably the only reason the Atlantis/Wakanda conflict existed was because Namor was possessed by the PHoenix. There were outside influences at work there. And that's typically the case when Namor decides to attack the surface world in general. Not that Namor is a sweet heart under normal circumstances... but AvX can probalby be looked at more as an outlyer in regards to Namors diplomacy.

This is true and I don't think Marvel and the writers telling the story didn't put that point across hard enough. I can't remember which comic it was in (pretty sure I have it screen capped) but Namor's problem was that he was too proud to admit that the Phoenix Force took control of him.

[Reviresco]

Just checking in and will try to catch up tonight or tomorrow. Everything is cool, thankfully, I've just been real busy and trying to get used to working again. LOL!

Hope everyone is doing well and staying safe!

[XPac]

This is true and I don't think Marvel and the writers telling the story didn't put that point across hard enough. I can't remember which comic it was in (pretty sure I have it screen capped) but Namor's problem was that he was too proud to admit that the Phoenix Force took control of him.

I think it was implied (though not outright stated) when he talked to cope in Consequences.

avx-zone-008v8fd3.jpg

But yeah... I think Namor would sooner admit to being a mass murder than being under the control of an outside force.

[DrNewGod]

Arguably the only reason the Atlantis/Wakanda conflict existed was because Namor was possessed by the PHoenix. There were outside influences at work there. And that's typically the case when Namor decides to attack the surface world in general. Not that Namor is a sweet heart under normal circumstances... but AvX can probalby be looked at more as an outlyer in regards to Namors diplomacy.

Actually, tension between Atlantis and Wakanda goes back at least 40 years. It's understandable because they were both Nations Apart from the rest of the world, superior to most of those around them and subject to suspicious hostility. They'd have little more reason to trust one another than anyone else on earth.

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[ImperiusWrecked]

Today is Bill's Everett's 103rd birthday!
Bill Blake Everett [May 18, 1917 - February 27, 1973]

John Arcudi on Twitter has posted some of Bill's arts and there is this satire of Jack Kirby's art I've never seen before!

Just checking in and will try to catch up tonight or tomorrow. Everything is cool, thankfully, I've just been real busy and trying to get used to working again. LOL!

Hope everyone is doing well and staying safe!

Ah! I'm glad you are doing well Rev! I was getting concerned. Your presence is always greatly missed.

[Subby1939]

This is true and I don't think Marvel and the writers telling the story didn't put that point across hard enough. I can't remember which comic it was in (pretty sure I have it screen capped) but Namor's problem was that he was too proud to admit that the Phoenix Force took control of him.

Well he’s about to be possessed by the Phoenix Force again in current Avengers run so let’s see what happens now .....