Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[Spiderfang]

Anybody have any good Clone Saga Namor stories or images ('94-96 period)?

[Woozie]

I'd suggest trusting none of the Atlantis Attacks covers. They're basically all lies. I'd say Pak does a really good job portraying Namor.

[Reviresco]

I miss the "IMPERIUS REX" in the thread title. I keep scrolling past the thread looking for it lol.

This is exactly what I said repeatedly when I asked the mods to change it back, before they made it a "rule" this year!

[Reviresco]

Anybody have any good Clone Saga Namor stories or images ('94-96 period)?

I didn't think Namor was in any of the Clone Saga stuff. I'll have to double check.

That time period would be at the end or after Namor's solo ended, so it would be the "pony tail" period. In his own book, that would be Geoff Isherwood's art. After his book ended, I think Namor joined the FF, which would be Paul Ryan art. Is that what you are looking for?

There was a Marvel -Team Up issue in the 90s with Spider-Man, but I'm thinking it was Peter Parker. Plus, the art was ... less than good, IMO.

[Thor-El]

But he's already Obadiah Stane.

If Laura Haddock and Chris Evans can play multiple characters in the MCU why not him?

Discovered All Star Squadron as a kid waiting for a flight in New Delhi. Some dude was selling a bunch of comics at the airport. Ended up buying 6-8 issues and I've loved Golden Age heroes ever since.

I owe my love for the Golden Age to Bill Everett and the Sub-mariner. Always found it fun but delving heavily into Sub-mariner history and reading those old Marvel Comics really cemented my love for it. Before that it was Roy Thomas and his work on Invaders and All Star Squadron that was really my introduction but the real thing is just so awesome!!!

[Thor-El]

ALL of Marvel's editorial decisions are not wholly Brevroot's decisions. For example, I realize I may have implied that Brevroot was the guy responsible for us not getting a Dr Strange ongoing for all those years, and that isn't the case at all. He wasn't in 'power' for all those years, for one thing. What I meant was that he was repeating the company line, when asked about a Dr. Strange book. WHY Marvel "believed" that ... well I have my own theories about that, but mostly, they just weren't interested in doing a magic / Doctor Strange book.

I assume there's a fair amount of Namor in Tom's info blogs, because there's a fair amount of Namor in Marvel's history. At least Tom acknowledges that, unlike some other folks.

As for Brevroot getting Namor ... well, I don't think he gets certain aspects of Namor, that's for sure. The whole business of putting pants on Namor ... well, no. For some reason, he doesn't seem to understand that there's a large part of Namor's fanbase that likes the swimming trunks. But that sort of ... censure, has been going on since the black suit costume from the 1970s.


Alex Ross does have some pull at Marvel -- WHEN he wants to exercise it. That's why we got his Invaders trilogy. Of course, I wish he had done a Namor mini-series, but he choose to focus on Jim Hammond, instead. And we did just (the last couple of years) get an editorial shift at Marvel. But I'm not so sure that has worked out good for Namor. At this point, I think we really only have two things to pin our hopes on for a change in Marvel's attitude toward Namor.

1) A movie or TV show

2) What we've always had to rely on, a writer with enough pull who loves Namor and wants to write him.

Sad but true.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Atlantis Attacks today was good in that I really feel that Pak does know Namor well as a character, and I wish he could get an ongoing Namor solo to write. Spoilers for the issue: spoilers:

Wave got to meet Namora and Venus who took her to Atlantis and she was warmly welcomed by Namor and the Atlanteans because she had fought the Serinas before. Namor was willing to trust the humans but that did not end well for him or Atlantis. So Namor does get his dragon back but its been controlled to attack atlantis (atlantis getting wrecked again was bound to happen so i was prepared for it but insert: why must it always be destroyed rant here.) And we get the continuation of the opening scenes of the first comic where Namor fights Cho. And then we find that the creator of Pan is working with the Serinas as a cliff hanger.

end of spoilers Overall, Namor isn't being shown as the bad guy here and that's what I feel is important of course we are only two issues in so far and the cover with Wave on the throne does make me curious about how that comes about.

I have asked Pak who this Vizier is, if he is Vashti, because I would like to know if this is just another throwaway one shot atlantean character or Vashti, but I'm waiting to see if he replies!

[ImperiusWrecked]

ALL of Marvel's editorial decisions are not wholly Brevroot's decisions. For example, I realize I may have implied that Brevroot was the guy responsible for us not getting a Dr Strange ongoing for all those years, and that isn't the case at all. He wasn't in 'power' for all those years, for one thing. What I meant was that he was repeating the company line, when asked about a Dr. Strange book. WHY Marvel "believed" that ... well I have my own theories about that, but mostly, they just weren't interested in doing a magic / Doctor Strange book.

I assume there's a fair amount of Namor in Tom's info blogs, because there's a fair amount of Namor in Marvel's history. At least Tom acknowledges that, unlike some other folks.

As for Brevroot getting Namor ... well, I don't think he gets certain aspects of Namor, that's for sure. The whole business of putting pants on Namor ... well, no. For some reason, he doesn't seem to understand that there's a large part of Namor's fanbase that likes the swimming trunks. But that sort of ... censure, has been going on since the black suit costume from the 1970s.


Alex Ross does have some pull at Marvel -- WHEN he wants to exercise it. That's why we got his Invaders trilogy. Of course, I wish he had done a Namor mini-series, but he choose to focus on Jim Hammond, instead. And we did just (the last couple of years) get an editorial shift at Marvel. But I'm not so sure that has worked out good for Namor. At this point, I think we really only have two things to pin our hopes on for a change in Marvel's attitude toward Namor.

1) A movie or TV show

2) What we've always had to rely on, a writer with enough pull who loves Namor and wants to write him.

That's the only way we ever Namor in anything, and the thing is over the years I have seen many writers or others wanting to write a Namor solo but its the Powers that Be who won't do it. I recall there was this art of Namor with Avengers characters for a discarded Namor solo idea. Honestly even with a writer with pull we might not even get anything, Zdarsky had some pull and his Daredevil series was a huge hit over the last year but Marvel still didn't renew any more Invaders, which as we all know in the first place should have been a Namor ongoing solo but Chip was shot down for the solo. *sighs* I really hope we get a Namor solo someday soon. I'm still pretty salty that Marvel totally ignored his 80th year. >

[ImperiusWrecked]

I always wondered why this series was never done. Art by Alan Weiss

[Woozie]

Question.

Is Namor still a hydromancer?

[Reviresco]

Question.

Is Namor still a hydromancer?

No one has answered that question, and many others (WTF is going on with his black eyes???). However, given it was Atlantean tech / magic plus Hydro Man that gave Namor this power, it's clearly can be done again, if he doesn't have that power.

[Thor-El]

Atlantis Attacks today was good in that I really feel that Pak does know Namor well as a character, and I wish he could get an ongoing Namor solo to write. Spoilers for the issue: spoilers:

Wave got to meet Namora and Venus who took her to Atlantis and she was warmly welcomed by Namor and the Atlanteans because she had fought the Serinas before. Namor was willing to trust the humans but that did not end well for him or Atlantis. So Namor does get his dragon back but its been controlled to attack atlantis (atlantis getting wrecked again was bound to happen so i was prepared for it but insert: why must it always be destroyed rant here.) And we get the continuation of the opening scenes of the first comic where Namor fights Cho. And then we find that the creator of Pan is working with the Serinas as a cliff hanger.

end of spoilers Overall, Namor isn't being shown as the bad guy here and that's what I feel is important of course we are only two issues in so far and the cover with Wave on the throne does make me curious about how that comes about.

I have asked Pak who this Vizier is, if he is Vashti, because I would like to know if this is just another throwaway one shot atlantean character or Vashti, but I'm waiting to see if he replies!

This looks pretty good, now you mention Lord Vashti and get me all interested in this series!

[Woozie]

No one has answered that question, and many others (WTF is going on with his black eyes???). However, given it was Atlantean tech / magic plus Hydro Man that gave Namor this power, it's clearly can be done again, if he doesn't have that power.

Okay, if he is, that explains some Aero plot points that makes the build up to this make a lot more sense. And I think i now know why Wave is on those covers in that capacity now.

[Reviresco]

Okay, if he is, that explains some Aero plot points that makes the build up to this make a lot more sense. And I think i now know why Wave is on those covers in that capacity now.

I haven't been reading Aero, so I don't know what plot points you are referring to.

As for Wave being on the Atlantean throne ... IF that is what Pak is planning, I will be MOST unhappy. TBH, I'm somewhat mystified about this, because it smacks of the 'white savior' trope, and I'd have thought Pak, of all people, would have been sensitive to that sort of stuff.

[Woozie]

I haven't been reading Aero, so I don't know what plot points you are referring to.

As for Wave being on the Atlantean throne ... IF that is what Pak is planning, I will be MOST unhappy. TBH, I'm somewhat mystified about this, because it smacks of the 'white savior' trope, and I'd have thought Pak, of all people, would have been sensitive to that sort of stuff.

Alright allow me to explain

spoilers:

In Aero, they revealed the origins of Wave. She's a scientific experiment created by the Sirenas. In the story itself, it's framed like a complete accident by a relatively peaceful race of sea creatures separate from Namor's rule. However if you go back to it after this latest issue, a lot of points re-contexualize and it becomes incredibly obvious that they created Wave as a super weapon counter to Namor. This latest issue of Atlantis Attacks does a lot to change the perspective brought about in a lot of previous Pak stories that seemed like they weren't actually going anywhere. Basically Atlantis attacks is taking a lot of story beats from previous pak stories to create a scenario where the Agents of Atlas are being used as pawns by the real villains in an attempt to take out Namor. So I don't think Wave taking down Namor is real. Well, I think it's real, but not in the way Marvel wants the fans to think it's real. The villains intend to use Wave to take down Namor, but I'm certain they're not actually going to get their wish.

end of spoilers