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  1. #586
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Well said, the plot is more nefarious than Wave knows about and trusting the Sirenas is a mistake imo.


    Also a fan posted this Namor Art Commission by Adam Gorham, artist of New Mutants.

    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post

    As for the Sirenas you have to think of them as two groups because there was the Sirenas with the Queen who hated Atlantis and created Alontech that was turning people into water breather to make them warriors against Atlantis (Sea Hunter was their first and Wave was the most recent) then the Queen was mad because Sea Hunter and her lover the Sirena Carina fell in love and were leaving. Then a splinter group of Sirenas who worked with Sea Hunter, Carina (sirena scientist) and the city of Pan is the one that Wave joined because they told her Atlantis was always killing their people. Wave imo is inexperienced, the Sea Hunter and Carina saved her from the Queen and I think she feels she is indebted to them or sees herself as their protector? (The info here were in Aero #4-5 iirc)
    I do want to mention that this is how it appears on initial reading, however, I recently reread those issues over again, and the 'splinter group' and the Queen, who didn't die, say and react to multiple things that suggest this was all a ruse to get Wave on their side. Specifically all their weaponry and experiments are very clearly aimed at overthrowing Atlantis.

    Also despite their few mentions of how Atlantis slighted them, they repeatedly seem far more focused on taking over all of the oceans.

  3. #588
    Amazing Member batsheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Hello, Ario! Good to see you again. I was happy to see you were doing this series and getting another chance at drawing our beloved sea prince. Hopefully his fate will better than in Secret Wars House of M. ;p Your work seems a lot more detailed now, but that's to be expected, given it's been years since that book. Loving the Sirenas also, and the murals in Namora and the Sirena's 'stories' were fantastic!

    And thank you for posting that splash page. It's wonderful to see Namor closer to proper attire, i.e. shirtless. Now if he could just lose the tights in the upcoming battle, and fight in his green speedo -- with a shave -- I will be in Atlantean heaven. LOL!
    Oh you remember me! Thank you.. it's nice to see that you guys are enjoying the book. And yes, I think my previous attempt at drawing Namor was far from good, so now I tried my best to do him justice. My current Namor is very different with the one I did years ago, and part of it is because now I read this thread, I learn how I supposed to potray and draw him. You guys are his loyal fans and passionately talking and discussing about Namor, and so I get more knowledge about the sea prince and I try my best to respect that. I may have no control on the story, but I can at least try my best to draw Namor correctly.

    Now back to the drawing board.. drawing the sea prince again!

  4. #589
    Amazing Member batsheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Ahhhh I love it! That splash page alone was worth the comic
    Thank you so much!!

  5. #590
    Mighty Member Thor-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batsheva View Post
    Oh you remember me! Thank you.. it's nice to see that you guys are enjoying the book. And yes, I think my previous attempt at drawing Namor was far from good, so now I tried my best to do him justice. My current Namor is very different with the one I did years ago, and part of it is because now I read this thread, I learn how I supposed to potray and draw him. You guys are his loyal fans and passionately talking and discussing about Namor, and so I get more knowledge about the sea prince and I try my best to respect that. I may have no control on the story, but I can at least try my best to draw Namor correctly.

    Now back to the drawing board.. drawing the sea prince again!
    Thanks for visiting this thread. I also echo Reviresco's yearning for Namor's classic look. Its rare when a comic book professional comes and expresses interest in listening at a character's fandom. I was already impressed with your artwork but this has cemented my admiration making me 100% a fan. Your Namor is one of the best I have seen in awhile and the book is beautifully drawn.

  6. #591
    Amazing Member batsheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El View Post
    Thanks for visiting this thread. I also echo Reviresco's yearning for Namor's classic look. Its rare when a comic book professional comes and expresses interest in listening at a character's fandom. I was already impressed with your artwork but this has cemented my admiration making me 100% a fan. Your Namor is one of the best I have seen in awhile and the book is beautifully drawn.
    Thank you so much, Thor-El! Well, I am also a fan, so I get it when I read or see something that is not potrayed correctly, it's kind of bugging me. I am more than happy to read what you think about the way I draw Namor and enjoyed the book! Thank you!

  7. #592
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    How was Namor and Atlantis’ showing in this mini? Should I pick it up?

    I’m slowly getting caught up, and I’m almost to War of the Realms, but hopefully I’ll be up to this mini in a couple weeks.
    Top 10 Marvels
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  8. #593
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Also a fan posted this Namor Art Commission by Adam Gorham, artist of New Mutants.

    Wow. I could cut bread on those muscles!

    Nicely done! I like the bracers also -- they look like crustacean shells.
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  9. #594
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    How was Namor and Atlantis’ showing in this mini? Should I pick it up?

    I’m slowly getting caught up, and I’m almost to War of the Realms, but hopefully I’ll be up to this mini in a couple weeks.

    Well.... the usual happens with Atantis.

    It's Pak writing Namor, so it's a more sympathetic and nuanced Namor. I find it a little confusing, not having read the build up in previous mini-series, but only for the motivation of some of the characters.

    If you are interested in Namor or the Agents of Atlas (both new and old) then you should definitely pick it up.
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  10. #595
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batsheva View Post
    Oh you remember me! Thank you.. it's nice to see that you guys are enjoying the book. And yes, I think my previous attempt at drawing Namor was far from good, so now I tried my best to do him justice. My current Namor is very different with the one I did years ago, and part of it is because now I read this thread, I learn how I supposed to potray and draw him. You guys are his loyal fans and passionately talking and discussing about Namor, and so I get more knowledge about the sea prince and I try my best to respect that. I may have no control on the story, but I can at least try my best to draw Namor correctly.

    Now back to the drawing board.. drawing the sea prince again!
    Of course! Secret Wars House of M caused some conversation here, and there are still fans of that particular Alternate Universe. Don't be so hard on your past work. I know I, and others, enjoyed that Namor. Of course, it's good to grow your skills over the years, as you obviously have. Thrilled if our posts helped with your new portrayal of Namor.

    Looking forward to next issue!
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  11. #596
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    It's weird that the thread was deleted and replaced with one by Brian Cronin. CBR stopped creating news threads once Jonah sold the site to another party. Maybe they're going to start that up again?
    Was it deleted? I did see the Cronin one go up and thought it was unusual. Like you said, we used to have news articles prompt forum threads all the time and that was cool and I miss it. Had some interesting conversations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    No, you're not alone. He and Doom both share that quality IMO.
    Well, think about it. Would you really want to have a ruling monarch who wasn't confident in their abilities? ;p
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  12. #597
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Pak isn't pulling any punches with Namor, spoilers:
    there is a small portion of the comic where Namor was ambushed by the sirenas and Wave and he was captured and dehydrated. I think that was to allow the OG Agents of Atlas, New AoA and the sirenas a chance to talk and see where everyone was going to ally themsleves, but Namor got out of it easily with that last splash page
    end of spoilers
    I was a little annoyed at that, but at least there was some explanation spoilers:
    biodisrupters
    end of spoilers, but if they have those and they are that effective, then they should have no problem fighting anyone, including Atlanteans.

    I'm guessing that the hydrokinesis has something to do with that last page. Hard to keep someone spoilers:
    dehydrated
    end of spoilers if they are using that, eh?

    Also of note, we don't see Namor with black eyes in this when he's using hydrokinesis, do we?



    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Writers definitely don't give Namor enough credit and do boil him down to "Mad Sea King" when he's so much more, but Pak highlights here that Namor is more ruthless to protect his people, Namora even said "It's his duty and his pleasure"

    Which leads me to once again state that since he was young and showed Tha-korr how strong he could be Namor was groomed to be the first line of defense for Atlanteans, it's what he grew up with, learning how to command armies and be a ruler. So I feel that writers should totally highlight how smart he is more. Namor isn't like super genius smart like other characters, but he's expertise lies with things that would help benefit Atlantis. So I guess you could say he's Street (Sea) Smart. lol. Also he knows alot about languages, diplomacy and everything even if he does tend to punch first XD
    Exactly. And I know it doesn't count, but remember, in the Golden Age, Namor was something of a Tony Stark inventor. He invented the flying Blitz Buggy with basically nothing. He was always inventing new Atlantean ships and stuff for them. But we had a little of that in the Silver Age. I remember Magneto wandering into Namor's lab in an FF issue.




    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    As for the Sirenas you have to think of them as two groups because there was the Sirenas with the Queen who hated Atlantis and created Alontech that was turning people into water breather to make them warriors against Atlantis (Sea Hunter was their first and Wave was the most recent) then the Queen was mad because Sea Hunter and her lover the Sirena Carina fell in love and were leaving. Then a splinter group of Sirenas who worked with Sea Hunter, Carina (sirena scientist) and the city of Pan is the one that Wave joined because they told her Atlantis was always killing their people. Wave imo is inexperienced, the Sea Hunter and Carina saved her from the Queen and I think she feels she is indebted to them or sees herself as their protector? (The info here were in Aero #4-5 iirc)
    Apparently, both groups hate Atlantis.

    Did Wave SEE Atlanteans killing the Sirenas? She SAW the Sirenas doing bad things. She SAW the Sirenas booby trap the dragon, kill Atlanteans, and blow up the peace talks. She HEARD how differently the Atlanteans and the Sirenas see their conflict. I don't think inexperience explains why she's siding with the attacking Sirenas.



    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    So basically there's lots of conflicting interest and while I wish there is more focus on the Lemurians, I am glad at least there's some world expanding going on because we do need more ocean characters and it never made sense to me that there isn't hundreds of different groups of people in the seas like on the surface. As for the dragon, nothing is really explained before we know about the dragon in New Agents of Atlas, we only know that the dragon was stolen before hand in a plot with Ares's son.
    Aaaaah! Something else I have to hunt down, then. But we didn't actually SEE the dragon attacking people?

    I agree, of course. There's a literal world of potential that Marvel is ignoring by not exploring with Namor. Instead we get Weirdworld or endless future Old Man Loganverse or The End stories -- none of which have the durability, or epicness, of a 3000 - 5000 year old flood story. And don't get me started on the great unknown of the oceans or the environmental angle. I just don't understand Marvel editorial.



    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    Okay to explain how and why this situation makes sense I gotta explain Pan and it's ruler Nyugyen.

    Pan is a tourist trap city created with portal technology. So it's a pocket dimension city connected to multiple cities across the planet. So one could use Pan to travel from New york to the Philippines in about 5 minutes. The whole city is very New Corporate 'Apple life' evil.
    Okay, but the Sirenas don't appear to be using the portals. They are going back into the water. Plus, this is new tech, right? So it doesn't explain why the Sirenas, who live in the Pacific, have a historic and ongoing conflict with the Atlanteans who live in the Atlantic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    • Hunting Dragons
    • Interring Refugees
    • Framing and Bribing Heroes


    Things that you know are bad, but they also conveniently spin or make into untenable situations. "We're not Hunting dragons, We're protecting them from Dragon Attacks."; "We're not interring refugees, we're providing asylum."; We're not bribing Heroes, we're offering them a well deserved salary." Pan is very set on turning a profit and making itself legally untouchable.

    As for the dragon attack, they've said it was captured because it was attacking shorelines, however no actual damage was ever shown, and the only time it attacked anything was Atlantis, and only after it was mind controlled by Sirenas technology. Prior to that, it was an unknown hostage of the city of Pan.
    Ah, okay. That's what I was wondering. Ikeda's claim was news to me.

    And Pan isn't looking so good either on that list.



    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    As for the Sirenas, they're very obviously evil, but due to a couple of gambits, they made Wave and Aero(much less so) believe they were good guys. Essentially they were behind a tech corp (Alontech) that was experimenting on multiple humans to created a hydrokinetic warrior as well as multiple other weapons. So out right they'd proven to be willing to kidnap and experiment on people for weaponry, however when Aero and Wave meet them for the first time, they play a gambit where it seems like they're in a civil war to stop the 'evil side' of their nation.

    So from the Wave's point of view she helped a peaceful people overthrow a ruthless dictator and is now helping them fight a ruthless tyrant in Namor. Aero however was always skeptical of how 'convenient' all the moving parts of the whole scenario was.
    Except, Wave has no direct experience of this "ruthless tyrant," and the "peaceful" side of the Sirenas have done nothing but fight and destroy Cho's attempt at peace, so I'm not sure how she can view them as peaceful.



    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    I do want to mention that this is how it appears on initial reading, however, I recently reread those issues over again, and the 'splinter group' and the Queen, who didn't die, say and react to multiple things that suggest this was all a ruse to get Wave on their side. Specifically all their weaponry and experiments are very clearly aimed at overthrowing Atlantis.

    Also despite their few mentions of how Atlantis slighted them, they repeatedly seem far more focused on taking over all of the oceans.
    Well, I didn't pick up on that, but I've been meaning to re-read those back ups. I'm with Aero on this one. Things with the Sirenas feel shady.
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  13. #598
    Amazing Member batsheva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Of course! Secret Wars House of M caused some conversation here, and there are still fans of that particular Alternate Universe. Don't be so hard on your past work. I know I, and others, enjoyed that Namor. Of course, it's good to grow your skills over the years, as you obviously have. Thrilled if our posts helped with your new portrayal of Namor.

    Looking forward to next issue!
    Thank you so much, Reviresco.
    Well, I do appreciate and always be grateful for the editors to trust me with such title, and at that time, I did all my best. But as you said, as time goes by, I try to improve not only in drawing but also in spending more time to find out about the characters more. Not just the surface, but what's beneath the skin. And I can learn so much about Namor from here. Also Greg wrote fantastic stories and from his script I get Namor's character. He's a very good writer that we can understand the characters just by reading the script. But yeah, I need to learn more and I want to potray Namor justice, so this thread has helped me to know him better.

  14. #599
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I think the Morrison FF1234 story was an AU story -- it was Marvel Knights. I'm not sure where it would fit in continuity.
    OMG! Does this mean every story under the Marvel Knights imprint takes place in AU? Or is FF1234 an exception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    And, as you've mentioned, Namor had a few additional abilities. I think there was some mention of Namor having some sort of biometric abilities that he used against Sue? I'd have to go read it again.
    IIRC, the implication was that Namor was able to short-circuit Sue's force fields using his bio-electric aura.

    I also liked that Namor wasn't above using a bit of psychological warfare, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I do remember Namor saying something about his control / influence on the hurricane.
    I also remember this. Great quote, Reviresco.
    Last edited by K7P5V; 03-20-2020 at 10:46 PM.

  15. #600
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    OMG! Does this mean every story under the Marvel Knights imprint takes place in AU? Or is FF1234 an exception?
    I wouldn't say all of Marvel Knights was AU. But there are definitely conflicts with continuity. The MK FF books, for example, were running concurrently with the regular FF series and they didn't match up. I already pointed out the Triton change in the Inhumans series.

    Of course, there are other MK titles that were pretty much adopted into continuity wholesale.



    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    IIRC, the implication was that Namor was able to short-circuit Sue's force fields using his bio-electric aura.

    I also liked that Namor wasn't above using a bit of psychological warfare, as well.



    I also remember this. Great quote, Reviresco.
    That was it! I thought that was an interesting take on Namor's often ignored bio-electric abilities.

    I actually enjoyed Namor alot in FF1234. I thought Morrison wrote his dialog almost poetic... and sensual.
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