Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[ImperiusWrecked]

I had missed this Tomorrow's magazine discussed here lately and I have most of the ones centered around Namor. I ended up buying it to read the entire article. I thought the author's tone is a big dismissive of Namor as a character. I mean from the title "Perennial Punching Bag" it doesn't sounds too hopeful. The magazine is mostly dedicated to Aquaman, Namor is even absent from the cover, just a mention on a lower banner. One thing from the article that caught my attention was the author's correctly complaining about the lack on consistent creative team that has plagued Namor in most of his publishing history. Besides Everett, Stan Lee, Roy Thomas and John Byrne he has been plagued with missing a stellar creative team. And even though Lee and Thomas are strong writers they had a constant switcheroo of pencilers during their tenure. I also blame the acquisition of the Conan rights very close to the Sub-mariner solo title launch for snatching John Buscema off the book when I'm sure Big John Buscema could have kept the popularity of the book very high.

I feel what you mean Thor-El, I personally think the author wasn't being dismissive of Namor, he gave quite a lot of back story and thoughts to the character, but the writer is also basically saying what we all say: Namor has become the punching bag of the Marvel Universe and has been so for quite some time. This happens to other strong characters too, like Thor and others. Where writers try to make a name for their writing run by having their hero or villain beat up the powerhouse characters. So its a very frustrating to see how much Namor is used as a punching bag. I do wonder what Namor's comics would be like today if Marvel hadn't shelved him for so long in between comic runs or as you mentioned, had Buscema longer.

I hope Rev comes to check on the board soon, because I would really like to hear their thoughts about this article too.

He's not alone ...too many people losing their **%#! minds these days

Namor always says what we want to say, even if its in hand gestures XD

[Thor-El]

I feel what you mean Thor-El, I personally think the author wasn't being dismissive of Namor, he gave quite a lot of back story and thoughts to the character, but the writer is also basically saying what we all say: Namor has become the punching bag of the Marvel Universe and has been so for quite some time. This happens to other strong characters too, like Thor and others. Where writers try to make a name for their writing run by having their hero or villain beat up the powerhouse characters. So its a very frustrating to see how much Namor is used as a punching bag. I do wonder what Namor's comics would be like today if Marvel hadn't shelved him for so long in between comic runs or as you mentioned, had Buscema longer.

I finally got my copy of The Art of John Buscema. The book is mostly an illustrated interview and very slim but I managed to learn several things about Buscema I didn't know. For once he wanted to be a boxer and he started training to be one until he realized he could earn more money drawing. He always loved boxing through his life. Another thing is he liked drawing his characters huge like bodybuilders, and that's one of the reasons he enjoyed Conan so much. He disliked drawing superheroes but he mentions Thor as one he didn't mind to draw, Thor was huge and had the historical theme he also mentions he likes drawing with the vikings etc.

I believe if he had left to his creativity in order to enjoy drawing Namor we would have gotten a bulkier Namor and a lot of historical Greco Roman Atlantis which would have been fine by me!





and this discussion reminds me that we are exactly two months from the publication of this comic, which I'm really curious about.

[Doombot]

[Thor-El]

I've seen this before. Liked it so much I've had it as part of my Namor youtube playlist for awhile.

[Electricmastro]

What would you guys say is the Sub-Mariner’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

Attuma, Tiger Shark, Llyra, Llyron, Orka, Krang, Byrrah, Dr Dorcas, Tyrak, Doctor Doom

[Subby1939]

Black Panther
Destiny
Tiger Shark
Orka
Krang
Attuma

These are my top picks . Dr Doom I consider an ally of Namor because they are both of royal lineage .

[XPac]

Black Panther
Destiny
Tiger Shark
Orka
Krang
Attuma

These are my top picks . Dr Doom I consider an ally of Namor because they are both of royal lineage .

I wouldnt consider T'Challa a part of his rogues gallery. They have certainly had their share of conflict... but similar to Doom they have history of being on the same page as well. Rivals at times yes... but MOST of the time they're on the same side. Right now not being one of those times.

[Thor-El]

What would you guys say is the Sub-Mariner’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

Attuma, Tiger Shark, Llyra, Llyron, Orka, Krang, Byrrah, Dr Dorcas, Tyrak, Doctor Doom

Attuma
Krang
Byrrah
Llyra
Llyron
Tiger Shark
Orka
Dr. Dorcas
Tyrak
Destiny
Hyperion
Roxxon


I don't think Dr. Doom can be counted as enemy because sometimes they are allies. Same thing with Black Panther, they have been allies in the past and will probably be again.

[Doombot]

Attuma
TigerShark
Llyra
Suma-Ket (and Scotus who is still out there somewhere)
Tyrak
Dr Dorcas (is he dead?)
Roxxon is for sure a good pick
Probably whoever is on the throne of Lemuria
Ghaur and Deviant Lemuria
Orka
Byrrah (again, he's dead, right?)
Dr Doom is absolutely an antagonist. A great one for Namor at that. They may have some sort of weird bromance occasionally, but both have 100% tried to kill the other many times.

I wouldn't at all add T'challa, because 1) I hate it, and 2) he's another hero, more akin to Reed, just a hero he does not particularly like. At least anymore.

[Thor-El]

Attuma
TigerShark
Llyra
Suma-Ket (and Scotus who is still out there somewhere)
Tyrak
Dr Dorcas (is he dead?)
Roxxon is for sure a good pick
Probably whoever is on the throne of Lemuria
Ghaur and Deviant Lemuria
Orka
Byrrah (again, he's dead, right?)
Dr Doom is absolutely an antagonist. A great one for Namor at that. They may have some sort of weird bromance occasionally, but both have 100% tried to kill the other many times.

I wouldn't at all add T'challa, because 1) I hate it, and 2) he's another hero, more akin to Reed, just a hero he does not particularly like. At least anymore.

I can agree with that cause as much as I hate to see Black Panther and Namor at each other's throat I love seeing Namor and Dr. Doom trying to kill each other.

[Iron Maiden]

I can agree with that cause as much as I hate to see Black Panther and Namor at each other's throat I love seeing Namor and Dr. Doom trying to kill each other.

I think one thing that Doom regrets is that he really ruined that relationship with Namor all by himself. Doom had encountered him during two of Namor's bouts of amnesia and both times they ended up in an alliance again (Sub-Mariner 47-49 & Namor My favorite one is the Gerry Conway story in Sub-Mariner 47-49 when Namor was forced to help Doom acquire the Cosmic Cube.



I think they are long overdue for another encounter. But I can understand that the relationship between Namor and Cap goes back quite a ways and their alliance occured at a crucial time in history. Cap tries to be keep Namor on the side of justice and that's something that should endure. I really didn't like that build up of animosity between Namor and Black Panther and that should be remedied by the reboot in the aftermath of Secret Wars IMO.

[Subby1939]

I consider Black Panther an enemy, my opinion

[Iron Maiden]

I consider Black Panther an enemy, my opinion

Not always. Lately, IMO TPTB at Marvel have gone too far in making Namor & Atlantis the aggressor in their relations with T'Challa & Wakanda. I guess I am getting nostalgic for Priest's Strum und Drang arc in his Black Panther series. Namor and T'Challa were able to avoid a conflict that could have dragged in Genosha, Latveria, Lemuria, Wakanda and Atlantis. I really enjoyed the intelligent way Priest handled the multi-nation crisis. There were more pages of discussion than superhero fisticuffs

[Iron Maiden]

And it the end it was Namor and T'Challa coming to a meeting of the minds instead of war and devastation

[Blind Wedjat]

Boy do I miss when heroes actually talked to one another, instead punching each other because of author-inserted shock value. The Wakanda-Atlantis conflict should have never existed. It should have never escalated, and it's not a good look for either of the parties. Namor is a king. He may be hotheaded, but a king no less. No good king seeks out war like a bloodthirsty hound.