Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[Doombot]

At the risk of disagreeing with you ;p ... I think we do agree on far more than we don't. And you are definitely a great contributor here, as you ask so many thoughtful questions and bring up some great points.

My reply was mostly tongue-in-check. I know we all agree on more than we disagree, but sometimes I think my responses/criticisms come off more aggressive than they are intended.

YES! See? We all agree on that.


A valid question. There's various reasons why I want Dorma back.

She's a strong character who gave Namor, and everyone else around her, a difficult time. I mean, look at the wringer she put Krang through! I love Namor and Emma together, because they both can be so snarky. Dorma was somewhat similar, but more ... lethal. And she has the added advantage of NOT being unobtainable. Unlike Emma or Sue, Namor wouldn't be a victim of romantic triangle plot device.


I don't necessarily want Namor and Dorma to immediately return to their old status quo, i.e. married. In fact, I would love to see her be a giant monkey wrench in Namor's love life / political marriage. That's a story I'd like to see Marvel address. Atlantis needs a queen, and an heir. It's long past time for Namor to address that, whether he marries for love or not.

I don't think it takes away from Namor's character by resurrecting Dorma. The writers already sort of did that, or more precisely, Byrne did that, by having Namor move on and marry Marrina.

Having Namor marry Marrina doesn't undo anything that happened between him and Dorma or the effect of her death. I'm not implying Dorma should stay dead simply because I wish Namor to be forever gloomy and mourning for her. Characters are a sum of their experiences, and how they deal with them, taking that away from Namor (and Llyra) ultimately makes them more shallow characters.

Expected behavior from a Doombot. Its part of his master's plan to make Namor wear granny panties and keep him away from his beloved Dorma.

Oh lord, don't start me on your love of bikini briefs again...

Sincerely, I know your name, but probably didn't notice how often you post and where. It is selective on my part, because I tend to be like/follow "the big 3". But certain writers appreciate characters the way I do, so I tend to glom on them more. CJ Striker, ?/sic, with Wanda. Crimz and other admirers of Sue or the FF.

Yesterday I tried to bop through the pages of this forum looking for your posts to see what I might like or think about, but I only randomly hit every 9 or 10 pages so I didn't seem to come across anything.

No worries, I don't post here a ton, I just pop up to cause trouble once in a while. Regarding your question about what I'd like to see or how to steer and Namor, I did make a large post about my ideas for fixing Namor, last year I think. I could always repost it.

[Oberon]

Looking at the images posted of Tales to Astonish which I had read a few as a kid, but my allowance didn't allow that all the time. A year or so later when Namor finally had his total own series, meant buying him for sure, plus I guess my allowance got better?

But why doesn't Marvel do this again; have two stories with different characters, and undertake it as 'a serial', true serial literature or what ever. Those silver age stories often built slowly they were never just two 'half' issues.

So Namor, and maybe someone else who hasn't had luck holding a series, Inhumans ?

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor having his own damn series is the crux of our situation and honestly it's really frustrating and sad to see how Marvel never has faith in their oldest and most enduring character.

Hah! I've been around here a long time. I don't post that often, just when I can and I usually end up disagreeing with the "Big 3" in the group, ImperiusWrecked, Reviresco and Thor-El. Though I may disagree, there's zero ill-will, and I enjoy having discussions here.

lol, and its great when you pop in. I look forward to talks on this thread because unlike places like twitter where I feel I am constantly defending the character when some anti Namor fan comes along, here there is good discussions and interesting view points.

A cover for Atlantis Attacks #5. Not sure how I feel about this. Or if this is only a variant that has nothing to do with the series? Doesn't sound exactly like that... More here:

Carlo Pagulayan does do a nice Namor, though.

I can't believe I have to wait another two months for the next issue, longest 5 issue mini series ever, lol

Speaking of John Byrne. He has been working on his original story for the ending of the Phoenix Saga that was changed by Shooter's editorial. this as a fan fiction of his. So far the story is fantastic and the last couple pages have a Namor guest star. Its like going back to his X-Men, really great work!

http://m.byrnerobotics.com/forum/for...asp?FID=6&PN=1

Oh now this is cool, I love Ororo and wish she and Namor did have more page time together.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'll have to plug the fantastic work at the MARVEL A DAY Project https://twitter.com/MarvelADayProj I'm finally reading the Sub-mariner Silver Age in order. They have just started with Tales to Astonish Namor's first solo series. I'm having a great time following along with these folks at night and rewatching the 60s cartoons whenever they hit a particular story. My birthday is tomorrow so I'll probably make the family watch a 60s Marvel cartoon with me. Introduce my daughter and her boyfriend to the wonders of Marvel's Atlantis or Kirby's Thor.

OMG you are finally in the silver age Thor-El? I love this era so much, keep us updating on your thoughts!

Ah yes. Those horribly inaccurate power grids.

Yes, that was stated in Black Panther book.

I'm not sure it was stated on panel, but if you look at various things he's done, he's superhumanly fast. In the older comics, it was repeatedly stated that superheroes were constantly underestimating how fast Namor was.


Create whirlpools.
Spin fast enough to drill through the earth.
Out swim torpedoes.
Catch missiles.


Then consider, that's underwater. A much denser atmosphere that actually slows down movement. Out of the water, he should be even faster.

Yes, I keep trying to find units of measurements to see just how fast Namor is even though its useless because some writer will come along and say X character is the fastest swimmer in the world. :/ But I think Namor is right up there along with Marvel Speedsters Northstar and Quicksilver in terms of his speed.

[Mormegil]

I bought the Sub-mariner paperback masterwork vol. 1 to hold me over until the epic collection comes out. I've been slowly rereading these. Gene Colan might be my favorite silver age artist.

[Reviresco]

I bought the Sub-mariner paperback masterwork vol. 1 to hold me over until the epic collection comes out. I've been slowly rereading these. Gene Colan might be my favorite silver age artist.

Practically the same thing, at least for the first half of the Epic. I'm glad they are starting with the first volume for this series, but I hope we get the missing 1990s issues, real soon. Surprisingly, with the publication of the Byrne / Jae Lee omnibus, amongst other things, we are pretty close to having most of Namor's books in a collected issue. We're just missing 15 - 20 issues between the end of the Harras run and the beginning of Atlantis Rising. Oh, and the 1980s and the Tsunami mini-series. At least I don't think the Tsunami series was collected, was it?

And yes! Gene Colan is underrated, IMO. His Dracula, Daredevil and Doctor Strange are perfection! I do love his Namor work, but I wish he had another inker than Colletta for those early Tales to Astonish issues -- not enough darks. Especially when you compare them to his later Subby work, like the Doctor Doom arc in 47 -49. So, gorgeous!

[Reviresco]

Yes, I keep trying to find units of measurements to see just how fast Namor is even though its useless because some writer will come along and say X character is the fastest swimmer in the world. :/ But I think Namor is right up there along with Marvel Speedsters Northstar and Quicksilver in terms of his speed.

Oh, you mean, like Ka-Zar?

Yep, STILL salty!

I don't think Namor is right up there with Northstar or Quicksilver, since super speed IS their thing. I don't like it when other superheroes ... infringe on another character's unique powers, i.e. the Ka-Zar and Conan underwater adventures. However, Namor should be as fast as most any other non-speedester superhero out there, if not faster, because air is less dense than water. And we know he's one of the fastest beings underwater.

Of course, writers -- and battle board fans -- seem to forget this. Just as they forget, Namor has to be one of the best flyers out there also. Flying in air has the same 3D spatial awareness requirment that swimming in the depths has -- minus, again the density of water.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Oh, you mean, like Ka-Zar?

Yep, STILL salty!

I don't think Namor is right up there with Northstar or Quicksilver, since super speed IS their thing. I don't like it when other superheroes ... infringe on another character's unique powers, i.e. the Ka-Zar and Conan underwater adventures. However, Namor should be as fast as most any other non-speedester superhero out there, if not faster, because air is less dense than water. And we know he's one of the fastest beings underwater.

Of course, writers -- and battle board fans -- seem to forget this. Just as they forget, Namor has to be one of the best flyers out there also. Flying in air has the same 3D spatial awareness requirement that swimming in the depths has -- minus, again the density of water.

Of course you are right, Namor isn't a super speedster above water but I feel under water he would be? Like if Northstar or Quicksilver were under water they would not be as fast as Namor because he knows how to move in water better than they do. (LOL, I am always salty about Kazar too) Also I wish Marvel creators would take into consideration the differences that happen for Atlanteans when they go above water, like besides the obvious that they can move faster than humans bc there is no water to slow them down and that they are stronger but other stuff too. Like I think Atlanteans should have special goggles for when they come above water to protect their eyes since the sunlight is unfiltered. One of my fave panels is Vashti saying how bright it is above the sea.

[DrNewGod]

...Something else I would like to ask the board: I was recently in discussion with some Namor fans about Namor's speed, we were talking about one of those power grid levels for characters and how low they made Namor in some areas. So exactly how fast is Namor? I don't think it was ever written down in the books how fast he swam underwater but I recall the Black Panther (2009) issue 1, I believe it was, said, Namor was as fast as the Quinjet. What do you all think?

I don't know if Namor's top speed has ever been canonically established. AFAIK, he's faster than anything in the water other than Marinna, who could do something like Multi-Mach speeds underwater due to some zero-friction coating thing Byrne dreamed up. He has moved fast enough to create waterspouts, if you don't write that off as some kind of hydrokinesis.

Anybody got a better answer?

[Oberon]

I bought the Sub-mariner paperback masterwork vol. 1 to hold me over until the epic collection comes out. I've been slowly rereading these. Gene Colan might be my favorite silver age artist.

I was reading Namor before this, in his appearances in Avengers and FF, and then Tales/Astonish. But this, is my favorite era, when he got his own book, the whole story with Destine, the flashbacks, etc. I loved those years and issues.

[Oberon]

Practically the same thing, at least for the first half of the Epic. I'm glad they are starting with the first volume for this series, but I hope we get the missing 1990s issues, real soon. Surprisingly, with the publication of the Byrne / Jae Lee omnibus, amongst other things, we are pretty close to having most of Namor's books in a collected issue. We're just missing 15 - 20 issues between the end of the Harras run and the beginning of Atlantis Rising. Oh, and the 1980s and the Tsunami mini-series. At least I don't think the Tsunami series was collected, was it?

And yes! Gene Colan is underrated, IMO. His Dracula, Daredevil and Doctor Strange are perfection! I do love his Namor work, but I wish he had another inker than Colletta for those early Tales to Astonish issues -- not enough darks. Especially when you compare them to his later Subby work, like the Doctor Doom arc in 47 -49. So, gorgeous!

Big fan of Mr. Colan, loved loved his work on Tomb, DD and Strange. That was my real best era, between 12 and 16 maybe. I quit for a year or so, when my parents or certain friends wanted me too, but I remember reading comics all through college and beyond; '73 - the mid '80s. Of course I kept reading, but things always kept changing. I dropped nearly all DC as the COIE turned me off with too many characters dead or very changed.

It was only in the '90s with all the foil covers and stuff, I started to cut back, first with X titles. I really can barely stand most of them. Except Jean and sometimes the other 2 classic teams, up until the '90s.

But I realized that the comics I liked the most - Defenders, which had Namor in the classic '70s run, were gone, never to be recaptured. Really. For years I felt that Avengers or FF had greater or lesser moments but still were okay enough to read. Until the last several years of Avengers with One Million BC or whatever and also this current team with She Hulk, who I like, but wonder what the heck, and Ghost Rider and the art really sucks to me. FF fares better for me. I actually have liked the most recent issues I've seen.

[Digifiend]

Solo book!
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/marvel...w-namor-series

[Reviresco]

Solo book!
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/marvel...w-namor-series

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSS!!!!!!!


Kurt Busiek!!!!

LADY DORMA!!!!!

I can't believe it! Me doing this times 100!!!

[Oberon]

Of course, I'm confused.

Is King in Black 'the' Namor spinout story? I guess I could look it up.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'm so excited!!!! I can't wait!