Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2020

[Konja7]

Same thing happened when Tim first became Drake. People were still calling him Robin. Took a bit before anyone called him Drake. Seems to be the same thing now, less of an in-verse thing and more writer/editorial.

This whole decision to make Tim Robin again does not feel like Tim's story, but rather Damian's. This is ramifications coming from that. I felt the same about Tim's progression to Red Robin pre-52, that was more about Damian's story in becoming Robin and Tim's situation was just a domino effect of that(even if it came out ok for him then).

In short, at least with the current case; it's pretty clear Tim was set to stay Drake for the foreseeable future but plans got changed on a dime, so it may be a bit before every writer and editor is up to speed on that specific. If Tim were still 'Drake', why the scene at the end of the latest YJ issue, why the 'Robin' suit? Pretty clear he's Robin now, for how long we'll see.

I just don't trust the hints in YJ #18, where other characters discuss if Tim is Robin again or not, but Tim doesn't directly answer

This has already happened in YJ. The first issues implied Tim was Robin, but he mentioned in YJ #8 he was still using the Red Robin alias.


I don't think they still using Drake alias is a problem of lack of communication from editorial or writers, since they are already using the Robin suit.

If the artists know they should draw the Robin suit, the writers and editors likely know what alias they should use.

[Darkcrusade25]

I’m starting to think he’s publicly gonna be known as Robin but to the Batfamily, it’ll be Drake just out of respect for Damian. He might believe that Damian is/should be Robin which would be some great character relationship growth tbh.

But that’s just fantasy land thinking.

[KrustyKid]

I just don't trust the hints in YJ #18, where other characters discuss if Tim is Robin again or not, but Tim doesn't directly answer

This has already happened in YJ. The first issues implied Tim was Robin, but he mentioned in YJ #8 he was still using the Red Robin alias.


I don't think they still using Drake alias is a problem of lack of communication from editorial or writers, since they are already using the Robin suit.

If the artists know they should draw the Robin suit, the writers and editors likely know what alias they should use.

I personally like the Drake name(for Tim using it as his alias) I honestly wouldn't mind if they added 'Detective' in front of it for the extra spice, and also one of the few who actually liked his suit(the predominately brown one). If they stick with the alias, hopefully the suit changes again soon, cus he's looking straight like Robin right now.Guess it depends on what the plans are for Damian.

[dietrich]

In terms of motivation, I think post-Robin Tim is more of the detective. There’s Ra’s calling him that, of course. And also there was him searching for Bruce last time he died. And figuring out who Batman and Robin were in the first place.

Makes more sense than just a leader type, as that’s already Dick’s gig. Plus when it came to a vote YJ/TT chose Cassie over Tim for leadership.

The detective is also Dick's gig. Ra's called Dick Detective way before Tim and Dick found out Bruce wasn't really dead. dick along with Alfred then decoded the 1st clues and then they all worked to Bring Bruce home.

Tim also learnt the craft from Dick Grayson and while Tim is tagged as the detective Dick Grayson is the far superior detective with actual canon stories that back that up unlike Tim who we are mostly told just is.

Figuring out who Batman and Robin were wasn't detective skills rather eyes, memory and coincidence not much detection required to recognise a skill.

I've never seen Tim as a great or exceptional detective but i did enjoy RR. Tim was darker which was more interesting.

[KrustyKid]

The detective is also Dick's gig. Ra's called Dick Detective way before Tim and Dick found out Bruce wasn't really dead. dick along with Alfred then decoded the 1st clues and then they all worked to Bring Bruce home.

Tim also learnt the craft from Dick Grayson and while Tim is tagged as the detective Dick Grayson is the far superior detective with actual canon stories that back that up unlike Tim who we are mostly told just is.

Pre-52, I disagree. He had plenty of good showings as a detective, especially in his solo. It wasn't until the New-52 where Tim was given the whole 'Best Detective' of the Robin's with no real showings to back it. Pre-52 he was stated as having the most potential to become the greatest detective of his peers, not that he was.

An example being where Tim deduced Huntress's true identity.

1943449-huntress_caught.jpg

I have plenty of issues showcasing Tim's detective skills pre-52

[Digifiend]

Considering that's from the 90s, that's a very 80s style mullet Helena's wearing there.

Anyway, yes, the fact he figured out Huntress and Batman's secret identity does prove he has detective skills. As you say, New 52 removed that evidence, since his origin changed. Luckily it's since been changed back.

[KrustyKid]

Considering that's from the 90s, that's a very 80s style mullet Helena's wearing there.

Anyway, yes, the fact he figured out Huntress and Batman's secret identity does prove he has detective skills. As you say, New 52 removed that evidence, since his origin changed. Luckily it's since been changed back.

He also figured out the identities of Superman, Flash, and Captain Marvel(Shazam) on his own/Pre-52. Obviously he has several more showings than just figuring out peoples identities that show his deductive and detecting abilities as a whole. I just wanted to debunk the whole notion that some throw around that Tim has no detective showings and that the writers just say 'he's a great detective' with nothing to back it. This was the case with New-52 Tim, not old school Tim.

[BlueElf94]

Maybe this is just me, but I'm kind of tired of the trope of each Robin getting pigeon-holed into having one skill by fans and writers (Dick the acrobat, Tim the detective, etc). Sure, each of them have certain predilections, strengths, and weaknesses, but people talk about them as if the thing they're known for is the ONLY thing they're good at. In Tim's case, it's been shown that the fighting and physicality of the job didn't come as naturally to him as the analytical side, but people will actually turn around and talk about him as if he's a bad fighter. It's ridiculous. The idea that any one of them could do a serviceable job as Batman's replacement would mean they have to be exceptional at all facets of crime-fighting.

I think too many people have conflated their skills with their personalities at this point.

[KrustyKid]

Maybe this is just me, but I'm kind of tired of the trope of each Robin getting pigeon-holed into having one skill by fans and writers (Dick the acrobat, Tim the detective, etc). Sure, each of them have certain predilections, strengths, and weaknesses, but people talk about them as if the thing they're known for is the ONLY thing they're good at. In Tim's case, it's been shown that the fighting and physicality of the job didn't come as naturally to him as the analytical side, but people will actually turn around and talk about him as if he's a bad fighter. It's ridiculous. The idea that any one of them could do a serviceable job as Batman's replacement would mean they have to be exceptional at all facets of crime-fighting.

I think too many people have conflated their skills with their personalities at this point.

You're absolutely right. This was never a thing Pre-52, heck I wouldn't say that is completely true now(at least most of the time). It's only when the Robin's/Bat Fam are together in an event where the whole; athletic robin/smart robin/brawler robin comes into play. When they're off doing their own thing all three are shown to be capable of handling themselves in all necessary areas. Dick is a superb detective(that goes without saying), even Jason has some decent feats in that department that proves he is cunning not only as a detective but a strategist. It's only when they're together that some writers try to distinguish them based on a specific skill set rather than their different approaches to reaching an end; ultimately which would bring about the same conclusion to a certain situation.

This isn't just a 'robin' problem, this happens in a lot of team situations. I can't count how many times the Flash has been dumbed down in JL teamups(specifically animated versions). At least none of the robin boys have taken it that hard in their meets, thank goodness.

[Digifiend]

That's because animated Robin is usually the leader, or working with Batman. He's never working under peers.

Though it's worth pointing out that the majority of Flash's animated appearances are Wally, who doesn't have all of Barry's investigation skills - he's not working for the police like Barry does.

[Konja7]

You're absolutely right. This was never a thing Pre-52, heck I wouldn't say that is completely true now(at least most of the time). It's only when the Robin's/Bat Fam are together in an event where the whole; athletic robin/smart robin/brawler robin comes into play. When they're off doing their own thing all three are shown to be capable of handling themselves in all necessary areas. Dick is a superb detective(that goes without saying), even Jason has some decent feats in that department that proves he is cunning not only as a detective but a strategist. It's only when they're together that some writers try to distinguish them based on a specific skill set rather than their different approaches to reaching an end; ultimately which would bring about the same conclusion to a certain situation.

This isn't just a 'robin' problem, this happens in a lot of team situations. I can't count how many times the Flash has been dumbed down in JL teamups(specifically animated versions). At least none of the robin boys have taken it that hard in their meets, thank goodness.

I should mention this happened in Pre-New52 too. I remember Batman mentioned the "division" of abilities between Tim and Dick in Red Robin (the issue about the return of Bruce Wayne).

I read they started to "divide" abilities when Tim and Dick get solos, because they want to differentiate the characters.


Now, it isn't just DC, fans are used to divide the abilities of the characters too. That's why when Dick started to use tech and computers in YJ, fans say he was taking from Tim.

[KrustyKid]

I should mention this happened in Pre-New52 too. I remember Batman mentioned the "division" of abilities between Tim and Dick in Red Robin (the issue about the return of Bruce Wayne).

I read they started to "divide" abilities when Tim and Dick get solos, because they want to differentiate the characters.


Now, it isn't just DC, fans are used to divide the abilities of the characters too. That's why when Dick started to use tech and computers in YJ, fans say he was taking from Tim.

The robins taking from each other is a formality at this point

[Potanical Pardon]

Hello Tim fans! While Tim is not typically my fav Robin, I did have question for you guys - any opinions on a name for him post-Robin?

Obviously we've had Red Robin & Drake. Both kinda meh.

Then there's the rumors that he was supposed to become Blue Beetle (IIRC this was the 1990s, so pre-Jaime). That's better, but I'm kinda thinking it would be cool if he had a green color scheme (that way we have Dick = Blue, Jason = Red, Tim = new color). Plus it would mesh well whenever he's out with Spoiler.

Now I googled green birds and the only one that sounded halfway decent is the Greenfinch. I'd probably rank this close to Blue Beetle in terms of my preference.

The only other real ideas I had was maybe cribbing a Pulp Hero name (The Shadow, Doc Savage, etc) but none of them particularly scream Tim Drake.

Any ideas from the crowd?

Redwing. It should have always been that. DC already owns the name, it has ties to the Titans, it plays off "Nightwing" in the big brother/little brother way and it's not in use.

[Konja7]

The robins taking from each other is a formality at this point

My point is if this "division" of abilities doesn't exist, people wouldn't say the Robins are taking from each other.

They would just accept accept Dick could be good on tech and Tim could be pretty athletic.

However, fans divide the Robin in abilities, because the characters could feel redundant if they don't especialize on something.

[Digifiend]

Redwing. It should have always been that. DC already owns the name, it has ties to the Titans, it plays off "Nightwing" in the big brother/little brother way and it's not in use.

Huh? MARVEL owns that name. It's Falcon's bird.