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  1. #721
    Fantastic Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Agreed. crunching timelines is a disaster to their experiences.

    One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'... The whole 'He's been trained as an assassin since birth' is a joke. First of all... no he wasn't. Best case scenario he started when he was between 3-5 years old... and since he's only about 10 when he makes his debut that only gives him 5-7 years of 'intense training'. in reality its probably closer to 5 when he's actually physically CAPABLE of doing the moves. Ra's has henchgoons with more experience than that.
    We can say the same for Cass and look how fandoms glorified her ability. Child prodigies are very often highly glorified on fictional media. Besides, canonly Damian had genetic engineering, so maybe Damian got all his abnormal capability because of that. Even some people theorized that Damian is maybe older or even younger than we thought because of the whole genetic engineering process and the fact that Heretic is ruthless soldier when he's maybe not even one year old.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    It would be weird to call himself Drake with a big 'R' on his chest...
    He called himself Drake while clearly wearing R emblem on his chest Nightwing issue #73. So far we have Tim that was called Red Robin in Drake costume (Gotham Nights), Robin in Drake costume (latest Batman appearanceon Young Justice), Drake in Robin costume (Nightwing 73), and Red Robin in Robin costume (Batman 99).
    It's so confusing.
    Last edited by Light of Justice; 09-16-2020 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #722
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Agreed. crunching timelines is a disaster to their experiences.

    One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'... The whole 'He's been trained as an assassin since birth' is a joke. First of all... no he wasn't. Best case scenario he started when he was between 3-5 years old... and since he's only about 10 when he makes his debut that only gives him 5-7 years of 'intense training'. in reality its probably closer to 5 when he's actually physically CAPABLE of doing the moves. Ra's has henchgoons with more experience than that.

    Now maybe if Damian WAS Ra's somehow deaged or reincarnated from the lazarus pit... and had all his years of knowledge... Heck, he'd still have trouble with the child body, but at least that... that... would actually be a really cool story. O.O





    It would be weird to call himself Drake with a big 'R' on his chest...
    As daft as it might sound Damian's training did start from the second he was pulled from the womb when talia dropped him into a pool to see if he was strong enough.

    Training doesn't just involve doing moves. In real life you can do baby massage that's designed to enhance certain attributes/abilities eg Flexibility.
    Damian doesn't have to be physically CAPABLE of doing martial arts moves to get stronger/train just like disabled people can still training and get stronger.

    We don't have all the details but we do know that his training did start from birth.

  3. #723
    Astonishing Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    If they are calling him Red Robin, why not just use this suit? Itís actually red and itís different from nearly every other Robin suit. Itís also distinctly Timís

    Attachment 100665
    I hate this suit. it would be the logical choice though. Red suit for a Red Robin and, as you said, it's also distinctly Tim's and would differentiate him from Damian.
    Anyway Tim's former suit is still the best Robin suit ever.

  4. #724
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    I liked that suit but I hate Drake color, it couldn't be more bland even if they try.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by failo.legendkiller View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    If they are calling him Red Robin, why not just use this suit? Itís actually red and itís different from nearly every other Robin suit. Itís also distinctly Timís

    Attachment 100665
    I hate this suit. it would be the logical choice though. Red suit for a Red Robin and, as you said, it's also distinctly Tim's and would differentiate him from Damian.
    Anyway Tim's former suit is still the best Robin suit ever.
    I hate this costume too. I don't think red is Tim's color. But if he's called Red Robin and this costume is green (instead of red) then it looks weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazai_Osamu View Post
    I liked that suit but I hate Drake color, it couldn't be more bland even if they try.
    I agree about the colors of the Drake suit.

  6. #726
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Aw I like that suit because it uses Robin bird color. The older one uses Robin Hood color, which is specifically supposed to be a Dick thing. Once they establish that Robin is a bird thing I think they should use Robin the bird color.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Aw I like that suit because it uses Robin bird color. The older one uses Robin Hood color, which is specifically supposed to be a Dick thing. Once they establish that Robin is a bird thing I think they should use Robin the bird color.
    I like that reasoning, and the way the colors of the costume have new meaning with each new kid in the suit. Red shirt + black pants could be cool for Jason... maybe he's always in black jeans b/c he's never fully bothering to change all the way into his suit; he's sloppy or just rebelling. More distinctive than just giving Jason the first suit but with a red mask.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    One of my big gripes is Damian supposedly being 'so awesome'... The whole 'He's been trained as an assassin since birth' is a joke. First of all... no he wasn't. Best case scenario he started when he was between 3-5 years old... and since he's only about 10 when he makes his debut that only gives him 5-7 years of 'intense training'. in reality its probably closer to 5 when he's actually physically CAPABLE of doing the moves. Ra's has henchgoons with more experience than that.
    You could make similar arguments for other characters as well.

    If you go by her pre flashpoint background story Cass ran iirc away from Cain at the age of 9, so she had a similar amount of training as Damian when he became Robin, and stopped her training about 7 years before becoming Batgirl (which would realistically lead to a to a decline of her abilities).

    When it comes to Dick he was shot in the head, was in coma for several month and got drugged and brainwashed, that he is without any training (and the lifestyle he had as "Rick") anywhere near to his previous level is also not particularly plausible (realistically he would probably already been lucky to be at the level of an average human).

  9. #729
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    So as of YJ#18, Tim is back to being Robin.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    So as of YJ#18, Tim is back to being Robin.
    We can't be sure about that.

    In the dialogue, Tim's companions assume he is Robin again, but he never said this directly.

    In earlier issues of YJ, the dialogue of the characters implied that Tim is Robin again (although he never say this directly), but Tim says he was still Red Robin in YJ #8.

    In Batman #99, the caption mention he is still Red Robin (even in the Robin suit).
    Last edited by Konja7; 09-25-2020 at 11:57 AM.

  11. #731
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    That caption is untrustworthy - on the next page, Harley calls Tim "Duckboy", clearly showing that when written, that caption was going to say Drake. It seems that some wires got crossed there. Wait until he actually gets called Red Robin in dialogue before assuming he's called that instead of just Robin.
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  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    That caption is untrustworthy - on the next page, Harley calls Tim "Duckboy", clearly showing that when written, that caption was going to say Drake. It seems that some wires got crossed there. Wait until he actually gets called Red Robin in dialogue before assuming he's called that instead of just Robin.
    Yeah. Tim will originally be Drake in the Robin suit in Batman #99. After all, the Duckboy joke was drawn at the same time that Tim used the Robin suit.

    However, the caption with "Red Robin" was added later when they likely had decide what his "new alias" would 1be.


    Honestly, I don't know why do you think Robin is an option for Tim? The Robin suit? It is clear they will call him as Drake or Red Robin in that Robin suit.
    Last edited by Konja7; 09-25-2020 at 08:40 PM.

  13. #733
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    I'd like to say everything is better than Drake but DC has proved it can fall lower so I wouldn't be surprised if DC managed something worse.

  14. #734
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I'm fine with either Robin or Red Robin — though I'd they go with the latter, I want it to include a reinstatement of his 2009–2011 Red Robin title — even the 2010–2011 run starting with “the List”. I wasn't terribly fond of it; but barring horrifically bad runs (which are best ignored to the extent they can be), I think the main takeaway of the New 52 era is that stripping away history is a bad thing.

    I don't necessarily want a return to his Red Robin suit from that run; but I'd rather he get something closer to that than to the New 52 or Rebirth Red Robin suits, which were to carrying degrees just the Robin suit with a few small changes. If you return him to the Red Robin identity, the point should be that he's followed Dick's lead and moved beyond being Robin; and his Red Robin suit should be to him what Dick's Nightwing suits have been to him: a recognition that he's no longer the Boy Wonder, but a legal adult who stands on his own.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I'm fine with either Robin or Red Robin — though I'd they go with the latter, I want it to include a reinstatement of his 2009–2011 Red Robin title — even the 2010–2011 run starting with “the List”. I wasn't terribly fond of it; but barring horrifically bad runs (which are best ignored to the extent they can be), I think the main takeaway of the New 52 era is that stripping away history is a bad thing.

    I don't necessarily want a return to his Red Robin suit from that run; but I'd rather he get something closer to that than to the New 52 or Rebirth Red Robin suits, which were to carrying degrees just the Robin suit with a few small changes. If you return him to the Red Robin identity, the point should be that he's followed Dick's lead and moved beyond being Robin; and his Red Robin suit should be to him what Dick's Nightwing suits have been to him: a recognition that he's no longer the Boy Wonder, but a legal adult who stands on his own.
    That’s my perspective as well, when I remove the love I had for the series - even if it wasn’t everyone’s favorite version of Tim, it was the most successful version of a Post-Dixon, post-parents, post-Robin version of the character.

    I feel like the only real directions to take the character of his post-New 52 form is unsatisfactory right is either all the way back to being the nebbish nerd living with a parent, or the more somber and experienced Red Robin era. I love both... but trying to blend the two versions isn’t a good idea, which is what the New 52 and a Rebirth tried to do.
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