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  1. #436
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    That was one of the most hilarious moments in CC X-Men.
    Logan gifting this photo is already hilarious but that giant turkey leg he's eating at the same time is just the cherry on the cake lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    The important, the beautiful things in life...

    And the punchline to a 40 year old joke.

    Genius indeed.
    He really nailed it! I hope that Zdarsky will write a Kurt and Logan team up one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    You should add there that the pairing that Brisson destroyed.
    I was talking about the Storm/Wolverine/Nightcrawler

    You mean Mariko/Logan? She was talking to the Old Man and not to her Logan though. Honestly after what she just went through (both in this story and when she was in Hell), I can't blame her for wanting to stay away from superheroes and villains in order to live a normal life and to discover the world on her own now that she's free from any obligation for the first time in her life.

    Even through I like Mariko & Logan together, I don't think Brisson destroyed the pairing quite the contrary. Having them together as soon as she came back to life after being dead for several years would have made no sense to me. The world has changed since her death, both Mariko and Logan have also changed a lot since then (and that wasn't even her Logan during this story) her reaction during the OML/DML series makes sense at least for me.

    Now that she's on her own, away from the Hand, from the clan Yashida and from the rest of the superheroes/villains community, it could be a good thing and give her a lot of character development before one day reuniting her with Logan.

  2. #437

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    You mean Mariko/Logan? She was talking to the Old Man and not to her Logan though. Honestly after what she just went through (both in this story and when she was in Hell), I can't blame her for wanting to stay away from superheroes and villains in order to live a normal life and to discover the world on her own now that she's free from any obligation for the first time in her life.

    Even through I like Mariko & Logan together, I don't think Brisson destroyed the pairing quite the contrary. Having them together as soon as she came back to life after being dead for several years would have made no sense to me. The world has changed since her death, both Mariko and Logan have also changed a lot since then (and that wasn't even her Logan during this story) her reaction during the OML/DML series makes sense at least for me.

    Now that she's on her own, away from the Hand, from the clan Yashida and from the rest of the superheroes/villains community, it could be a good thing and give her a lot of character development before one day reuniting her with Logan.

    It's what Brisson did to her in the first place. He brought her back only to make her stay away from him in such way. It felt like she hated him in the end and just wanted to move on with her life without him as far as possible.

    I doubt Logan and Mariko are gonna talk again like the way they used to given Mariko just wanted to ignore him now for the rest of her life. Now Wolverine fans are acting like all is fine between them bruh. Changing characterization just proves he just wanted her to be insufferable towards Logan. This also destabilizes a lot of things between Logan and other Japanese characters like Amiko. Aren't Marvel Universe used to be regarded as metaverse, where changes happen all the time? I don't see how deaths and rebirth really matters to character now given the characters' status quo and retcons are constantly changing the character most of the time.

    Repost: Valentine's Special retweet by Leinil Francis Yu

    https://twitter.com/_NoMoreMutants/s...884352/photo/1


    Last edited by Vishop; 02-14-2020 at 08:21 PM.
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  3. #438
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    It's what Brisson did to her in the first place. He brought her back only to make her stay away from him in such way. It felt like she hated him in the end and just wanted to move on with her life without him as far as possible.

    I doubt Logan and Mariko are gonna talk again like the way they used to given Mariko just wanted to ignore him now for the rest of her life. Now Wolverine fans are acting like all is fine between them bruh. Changing characterization just proves he just wanted her to be insufferable towards Logan. This also destabilizes a lot of things between Logan and other Japanese characters like Amiko. Aren't Marvel Universe used to be regarded as metaverse, where changes happen all the time? I don't see how deaths and rebirth really matters to character now given the characters' status quo and retcons are constantly changing the character most of the time.

    Repost: Valentine's Special retweet by Leinil Francis Yu

    https://twitter.com/_NoMoreMutants/s...884352/photo/1


    This is the type of work Yu does that made him my favorite artist at one time. Jeez this pic is amazing!
    You brought back Wolverine

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  4. #439
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    A legend. Let me have my crazy crack ship and pretend his one random alt-universe kid that looks like Kurt is somehow his kid with Kurt. Let me have my crazy crack ship.

    Let's all be honest here, he has way better chemistry and healthier relationship with Kurt than he has with half the women who have been in his life.
    Preach it.

    But this is why Iíd never want Marvel to make them an official couple, because then some writer would come along and twist it and ruin one of the oldest and most natural friendships Logan has.

    As they do with all his other good relationships.

    I must admit, I donít get Logan and Jean, never understood it beyond animal attraction.
    I adored him with Mariko.

    Iíll happily stick to writing my slash in my own wee corner of tíinternet, but I would like to see his best friend turn up his new book, if only to give me new material to have my wicked way with.

  5. #440

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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    Preach it.

    But this is why I’d never want Marvel to make them an official couple, because then some writer would come along and twist it and ruin one of the oldest and most natural friendships Logan has.

    As they do with all his other good relationships.

    I must admit, I don’t get Logan and Jean, never understood it beyond animal attraction.
    I adored him with Mariko.

    I’ll happily stick to writing my slash in my own wee corner of t’internet, but I would like to see his best friend turn up his new book, if only to give me new material to have my wicked way with.
    I am not sure how much do you know about Logan but not even most Wolverine fans interpret it the way I have done. But either way here goes everything.

    Logan is a private fellow and he doesn't share his feelings easily. But what happened between Jean and Logan had some history beyond Jean and Logan's first meet.

    First of all this relationship is unrequited but I must say this is the root of everything that happened between Logan and Jean at first place. Jean resembles Rose and not only terms of character but also in terms of relationship.

    Logan didn't know about his origins but he subconsciously thought about that it was Jean who came to her in dreams since the late '80s but it wasn't just her.

    I reckon Marvel have already thought his origins when Larry Hama wrote him and Logan was going through a lot of trauma due to Mariko's and Silver Fox's death, therefore, it might have also set free his early life. All of this is not more than speculation btw but it makes more sense to me





    Likewise, a lot of things have changed after New X-Men including the relationship between Jean and Logan which was adapted or interpreted mostly like Fox X-Men.



    I am not saying that it was solid/healthy but it never was bc Marvel(editors or writers) thought that they would like to keep this relationship like this. Though it could have been grounded well if given opportunity regardless right now not a single relationship is solidly established for Logan. Not even Mariko's.
    Last edited by Vishop; 02-15-2020 at 03:54 AM.
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  6. #441
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    It's what Brisson did to her in the first place. He brought her back only to make her stay away from him in such way. It felt like she hated him in the end and just wanted to move on with her life without him as far as possible.
    I posted it on the previous page but I remember that Brisson said that it was the X-Men editor's idea to bring her back and he had to make it work, I'm not sure why you think she hated him, she basically told him that it was really difficult for her to stay away from him (and again she wasn't even talking to her Logan) but for now she had to do it in order to basically rebuild her life. It's in a way similar to how she she couldn't marry Logan in the past because of her honor, it was something really difficult for her:



    I doubt Logan and Mariko are gonna talk again like the way they used to given Mariko just wanted to ignore him now for the rest of her life. Now Wolverine fans are acting like all is fine between them bruh.
    They shouldn't talk like they used to, at least not right now, it would make no sense to me and if Mariko wanted to ignore him for the rest of her life, she would have refused OML's last request. For once a writer didn't treat death and resurrection like a joke, and basically had a character saying she needs time on her own to figure things out away from anything from her past, basically setting up an emotional journey where the character will surely come out better out of it, I dunno for me that's the way to do it. The problem is that for now, she's nowhere to be seen but with any luck she will appear during the Percy's run where she will get some much needed character development.

    Changing characterization just proves he just wanted her to be insufferable towards Logan. This also destabilizes a lot of things between Logan and other Japanese characters like Amiko.
    Brisson didn't change her characterization he basically followed up on what happened the last time we saw her while she was in Hell for years and after Satan forced her to torture Logan. Even when Logan wanted to rescue her, she refused saying she wasn't worthy, that she deserved what she got, she told him to live his life, I mean she even said that someday if she had another chance in another life, she would try to redeem herself.



    How does it destabilize things with Amiko? Amiko is an adult now, she's living her life with her "mother" Yukio and with Logan when he can come to see her, even though I like the Amiko/Mariko relationship in the past I could understand if Mariko isn't ready to see them again so soon.

    A mini-series or just and arc in the Wolverine series could be a good way to explore the consequences of this storyline especially when it comes to the relationship between Mariko, Logan, Yukio and Amiko.

    Aren't Marvel Universe used to be regarded as metaverse, where changes happen all the time? I don't see how deaths and rebirth really matters to character now given the characters' status quo and retcons are constantly changing the character most of the time.
    Dying and coming back to life after so many years should be a traumatic event, an horrific experience that changes a character in my opinion. Because a lot of writers treated this subject like a joke in recent years, doesn't mean every writers should do the same. Mutants may be "immortal" now but I'm not sure if many of them remember their death or their stay in the afterlife, Hickman slightly touched upon this subject by saying that they have plans in place to deal with the emotional trauma that come with coming back to life years after someone died.

    For someone like Wolverine, coming back from the dead it's something he's used to, even though each time it's a painful experience, that's basically his trademark, but for someone like Mariko or even other characters who don't possess any healing factor/immortality? Nope that should change the way they look at their life and at the world especially after so many years away in my opinion.

    Of course if that was up to me, some characters like Mariko, Mar-Vell, Gwen Stacy or Uncle Ben should stay/should have stayed dead, with that said, for a long time I thought Bucky should have stayed dead too but damn what Brubaker did with him when he brought him back was just amazing.
    Last edited by Hush; 02-15-2020 at 06:00 AM.

  7. #442
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    Preach it.

    But this is why I’d never want Marvel to make them an official couple, because then some writer would come along and twist it and ruin one of the oldest and most natural friendships Logan has.

    As they do with all his other good relationships.

    I must admit, I don’t get Logan and Jean, never understood it beyond animal attraction.
    I adored him with Mariko.

    I’ll happily stick to writing my slash in my own wee corner of t’internet, but I would like to see his best friend turn up his new book, if only to give me new material to have my wicked way with.
    I've never been a big fan of that pairing to be honest and even less after the revelation about Rose, only time I liked them together was during the Age of Apocalype.
    Last edited by Hush; 02-15-2020 at 06:21 AM.

  8. #443
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Some art from the upcoming Wolverine series:


    By Viktor Bogdanovic:



    Source: https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...09249716166656


    By Adam Kubert:



    Source: https://twitter.com/AdamKubert/statu...59558802960384

  9. #444
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    I posted it on the previous page but I remember that Brisson said that it was the X-Men editor's idea to bring her back and he had to make it work, I'm not sure why you think she hated him, she basically told him that it was really difficult for her to stay away from him (and again she wasn't even talking to her Logan) but for now she had to do it in order to basically rebuild her life. It's in a way similar to how she she couldn't marry Logan in the past because of her honor, it was something really difficult for her:





    They shouldn't talk like they used to, at least not right now, it would make no sense to me and if Mariko wanted to ignore him for the rest of her life, she would have refused OML's last request. For once a writer didn't treat death and resurrection like a joke, and basically had a character saying she needs time on her own to figure things out away from anything from her past, basically setting up an emotional journey where the character will surely come out better out of it, I dunno for me that's the way to do it. The problem is that for now, she's nowhere to be seen but with any luck she will appear during the Percy's run where she will get some much needed character development.



    Brisson didn't change her characterization he basically followed up on what happened the last time we saw her while she was in Hell for years and after Satan forced her to torture Logan. Even when Logan wanted to rescue her, she refused saying she wasn't worthy, that she deserved what she got, she told him to live his life, I mean she even said that someday if she had another chance in another life, she would try to redeem herself.



    How does it destabilize things with Amiko? Amiko is an adult now, she's living her life with her "mother" Yukio and with Logan when he can come to see her, even though I like the Amiko/Mariko relationship in the past I could understand if Mariko isn't ready to see them again so soon.

    A mini-series or just and arc in the Wolverine series could be a good way to explore the consequences of this storyline especially when it comes to the relationship between Mariko, Logan, Yukio and Amiko.



    Dying and coming back to life after so many years should be a traumatic event, an horrific experience that changes a character in my opinion. Because a lot of writers treated this subject like a joke in recent years, doesn't mean every writers should do the same. Mutants may be "immortal" now but I'm not sure if many of them remember their death or their stay in the afterlife, Hickman slightly touched upon this subject by saying that they have plans in place to deal with the emotional trauma that come with coming back to life years after someone died.

    For someone like Wolverine, coming back from the dead it's something he's used to, even though each time it's a painful experience, that's basically his trademark, but for someone like Mariko or even other characters who don't possess any healing factor/immortality? Nope that should change the way they look at their life and at the world especially after so many years away in my opinion.

    Of course if that was up to me, some characters like Mariko, Mar-Vell, Gwen Stacy or Uncle Ben should stay/should have stayed dead, with that said, for a long time I thought Bucky should have stayed dead too but damn what Brubaker did with him when he brought him back was just amazing.
    Yup, thats also how i saw it, i don't really expect then back together any time soon, but i don't think that she hates him, she wants time for herself, wich is understandable considering what happened to her, i think that not seeing her perspective is a bit of a disservice. Still, i don't really think that Marvel would change their stance anytime soon. Even the "Throuple" is mostly implied instead of acknoledged (seriously the damn thing is written in such a way to raise internet discussion, is getting annoying).

    For happier news, Castlevania season 3 is coming soon!!!!. And that's beautifull.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
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  10. #445
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Yup, thats also how i saw it, i don't really expect then back together any time soon, but i don't think that she hates him, she wants time for herself, wich is understandable considering what happened to her, i think that not seeing her perspective is a bit of a disservice. Still, i don't really think that Marvel would change their stance anytime soon. Even the "Throuple" is mostly implied instead of acknoledged (seriously the damn thing is written in such a way to raise internet discussion, is getting annoying).

    For happier news, Castlevania season 3 is coming soon!!!!. And that's beautifull.
    Yeah that's my main problem right now, they really need a story that focus on her where we see things from her perspective. The "Throuple" is a genius move by Hickman when you think about it, guy knows how to make the fandom talk lmao.

    I was about to send you a PM about Castlevania, this trailer is amazing!!!!!!!


  11. #446
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    Yeah that's my main problem right now, they really need a story that focus on her where we see things from her perspective. The "Throuple" is a genius move by Hickman when you think about it, guy knows how to make the fandom talk lmao.

    I was about to send you a PM about Castlevania, this trailer is amazing!!!!!!!

    Sometimes writers forget that is important to give the supporting characthers some agency, especially in these days when they are becoming rare. Oh it is in a way, we have pages of disscusion to prove it doesn't mean that i have to like it lol.

    I saw it just before comig to the forum, it was luck really, but honestly it looks awesome, i hope that is just as good as the previous one, did they say how many episodes would have? (also, in case that you haven't wacth it, i reccomend you The Dragon Prince).
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  12. #447
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Sometimes writers forget that is important to give the supporting characthers some agency, especially in these days when they are becoming rare. Oh it is in a way, we have pages of disscusion to prove it doesn't mean that i have to like it lol.
    I would also prefer for them to clarify things lol. When it comes to the relationship between Hickman and the shipping community, I think this gif describes it very well:





    I saw it just before comig to the forum, it was luck really, but honestly it looks awesome, i hope that is just as good as the previous one, did they say how many episodes would have? (also, in case that you haven't wacth it, i reccomend you The Dragon Prince).
    Yeah I hope so! According to Polygon it will have 10 episodes.

    https://www.polygon.com/2020/2/14/21...e-date-trailer

    I heard some interesting things about The Dragon Prince, I will give it a try soon!
    Last edited by Hush; 02-15-2020 at 08:07 AM.

  13. #448
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Some Wolverine poses by Adam Kubert:






  14. #449

  15. #450

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    I posted it on the previous page but I remember that Brisson said that it was the X-Men editor's idea to bring her back and he had to make it work, I'm not sure why you think she hated him, she basically told him that it was really difficult for her to stay away from him (and again she wasn't even talking to her Logan) but for now she had to do it in order to basically rebuild her life. It's in a way similar to how she she couldn't marry Logan in the past because of her honor, it was something really difficult for her:
    LOL, they are two different situations for Mariko. I am not sure how someone can't rebuild her own life without having a relationship. But will she be facing hard situations due to someone as Wolverine? Yes, she will but doesn't this happen to 90% of the major characters. But Mariko wanted to be WITH him even though those were far more dangerous scenarios than current Mariko. She was even capable of facing her own danger but still, she doesn't have to face someone like Matsuo because she was already free of her crime family


    "I would have been free to marry you." Damn that was so much depressing.
    They shouldn't talk like they used to, at least not right now, it would make no sense to me and if Mariko wanted to ignore him for the rest of her life, she would have refused OML's last request. For once a writer didn't treat death and resurrection like a joke, and basically had a character saying she needs time on her own to figure things out away from anything from her past, basically setting up an emotional journey where the character will surely come out better out of it, I dunno for me that's the way to do it. The problem is that for now, she's nowhere to be seen but with any luck she will appear during the Percy's run where she will get some much needed character development.
    U do realize this is not 90s and resurrection doesn't even matter because alternate characters replace them all the time nowadays. Resurrections are just faulty and it ruins the culmination/buildup of characters and their relationships.

    Meh, she doesn't need to do anything. She was already free from her crime family and that means her PAST. Does she has to figure something out more? I don't think so.
    I felt cringe/obnoxious when Brisson wrote Mariko DML #6


    She was almost as if she doesn't want Logan coming to her life for JUST help. This is exactly the opposite of what she said on Wolverine #57. I mean every x-writer like Taylor and Brisson were just insufferable towards the old man. Don't they know what happened to him? Jeff Lemire did exactly the opposite when he wrote him. He actually acknowledges his relationships with Jean and Jubilee.

    Lemire was 20x times better than Brisson.


    When Wolverine was dying in Logan(2017) he was smiling and do you know why? because someone who Logan cared about is alive and she was near him because she actually cared about him.

    Brisson didn't change her characterization he basically followed up on what happened the last time we saw her while she was in Hell for years and after Satan forced her to torture Logan. Even when Logan wanted to rescue her, she refused saying she wasn't worthy, that she deserved what she got, she told him to live his life, I mean she even said that someday if she had another chance in another life, she would try to redeem herself.
    They both are different concepts and I mean Resurrection and Hell in terms of rules of life and death. Mariko was already dead and it shouldn't even counted in terms of continuity give she couldn't have remembered what has happened to her hell. It would defy difference between life and death
    Either way Would she have done that to Logan if she wasn't forced. NO.



    How does it destabilize things with Amiko? Amiko is an adult now, she's living her life with her "mother" Yukio and with Logan when he can come to see her, even though I like the Amiko/Mariko relationship in the past I could understand if Mariko isn't ready to see them again so soon.

    A mini-series or just and arc in the Wolverine series could be a good way to explore the consequences of this storyline especially when it comes to the relationship between Mariko, Logan, Yukio and Amiko.
    Let me rephrase this situation. Amiko wouldn't have broken up her relationship with Logan but it will just be shaken/destabilizes her life in certain ways just like divorce couple. Mariko was Amiko's foster mother, therefore, she has equal rights towards her as much as Logan.

    Dying and coming back to life after so many years should be a traumatic event, an horrific experience that changes a character in my opinion. Because a lot of writers treated this subject like a joke in recent years, doesn't mean every writers should do the same. Mutants may be "immortal" now but I'm not sure if many of them remember their death or their stay in the afterlife, Hickman slightly touched upon this subject by saying that they have plans in place to deal with the emotional trauma that come with coming back to life years after someone died.

    For someone like Wolverine, coming back from the dead it's something he's used to, even though each time it's a painful experience, that's basically his trademark, but for someone like Mariko or even other characters who don't possess any healing factor/immortality? Nope that should change the way they look at their life and at the world especially after so many years away in my opinion.

    Of course if that was up to me, some characters like Mariko, Mar-Vell, Gwen Stacy or Uncle Ben should stay/should have stayed dead, with that said, for a long time I thought Bucky should have stayed dead too but damn what Brubaker did with him when he brought him back was just amazing.
    Lol this exactly contradicts resurrection protocols. And NO Hickman has mostly focused the traumatism of the near-death rather than resurrection.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/09/06/house-of-x-4-wolverine-nightcrawler-death-hickman


    Did Logan, Scott, Jean, Kurt or Mystique change after they were resurrected? NO, because Hickman didn't want to ruin the buildup. Plain and Simple and yet it was just so much influential.

    It’s not the deaths that make this scene so powerful. It’s the historied relationship, the self-reflection, and the selfless heroism that facing death allowed them to express. This shows that while death may be temporary in superhero comic books, the act of dying can create a moment that lives forever.
    Last edited by Vishop; 02-15-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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