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  1. #451
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    I won't get too far into it because its a discussion that's derailed way too many thread already, but I can't take that moment seriously because everyone knew they were going to come back, the audience knew even before the protocalls were revealed, and the protocalls have a ton of problems with them. The sacrifice was meaningless and just too overly dramatic.

  2. #452
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    LOL, they are two different situations for Mariko. I am not sure how someone can't rebuild her own life without having a relationship. But will she be facing hard situations due to someone as Wolverine? Yes, she will but doesn't this happen to 90% of the major characters. But Mariko wanted to be WITH him even though those were far more dangerous scenarios than current Mariko. She was even capable of facing her own danger but still, she doesn't have to face someone like Matsuo because she was already free of her crime family.
    Of course the situation is different, what I mean is that just like in the past, she can't stay with Logan but this time for a different reason. And of course someone can rebuild their own life without the need to have a relationship with someone from their past for a while, in fact sometimes it's better to let go of the past if you want to move on.

    Mariko wanted to be with him because all those stories take place before her death, I mean she got poisoned and had to be killed by the man she loves the most, then spend an eternity in Hell before being revived as a mind controlled weapon by the same organization involved in her death originally. Seriously, if she didn't want to move on after all of that I would have been shocked, her reaction is plausible at least.

    Her story shouldn't always revolve around Logan, giving her some agency and letting her evolve as a character on her own for a while could lead to some interesting development.

    U do realize this is not 90s and resurrection doesn't even matter because alternate characters replace them all the time nowadays. Resurrections are just faulty and it ruins the culmination/buildup of characters and their relationships.
    The 90s was basically the era of the clones lol but seriously no matter the number of alternate reality characters, clones or a knockoffs, if the original character is loved by many, he will never be replaced permanently. Resurrection if done well can be interesting but the problem is that death & resurrection have become a gimmick in recent years but that doesn't mean a writer can't try to do something new when bringing back a character that have been dead for more than 25 years.

    Meh, she doesn't need to do anything. She was already free from her crime family and that means her PAST. Does she has to figure something out more? I don't think so.
    If she was free from her past and from her crime family, she would have never been resurrected by the Hand and Gorgon in order to gain control of the Yashida clan. She told Logan at the end of the scarlet samurai arc, that for the first time in years she could live without having to bother with her family business, the exact same thing that cost her her wedding with Logan and condemned her to Hell.

    OML is not dumb and he knows it's for the better to let her go because he understands how she's feeling right now since he went through something similar.

    I felt cringe/obnoxious when Brisson wrote Mariko DML #6

    She was almost as if she doesn't want Logan coming to her life for JUST help. This is exactly the opposite of what she said on Wolverine #57. I mean every x-writer like Taylor and Brisson were just insufferable towards the old man. Don't they know what happened to him? Jeff Lemire did exactly the opposite when he wrote him. He actually acknowledges his relationships with Jean and Jubilee.
    She basically told him: "I'm trying to live a normal life, and as much as it pains me to say that means I need to keep my distance from people like you".

    She just want to live a normal life for a while and after Logan told her the reason he came to see her, she basically agreed to his request and helped him. I mean a lot of supporting characters sometimes want to live peacefully for a while away from all the superhero nonsense so it's not something uncommon and besides OML isn't her Logan.

    And seriously comparing Taylor and Brisson writing of Old Man Logan? Even though I think Brisson's run had some pacing issues and some odd characterization from times to times, he wrote the old man in a good way most of the time, he acknowledged his backstory and he knew the character's continuity especially his relationship with Jubilee and with Dani, which are much more important than Teen Jean in OML history.

    Lemire was 20x times better than Brisson.
    That's 2 completely different versions of Mariko, the one from the Lemire's run is from the past long before her death and the one from the Brisson's run is a character that basically spent years in Hell and who was recently resurrected to be used as a weapon by the Hand and Gorgon, so I don't think it's fair to compare the two scenes especially Logan and Mariko interactions. If Brisson didn't care about both Wolverine and Mariko, he would have never referenced the scene where Logan told his name to her for the first time.

    Even though I prefer the Lemire's run that doesn't mean Brisson's run was horrible, it was a solid run IMO and seriously the Lemire's run was far from perfect especially the second half.

    When Wolverine was dying in Logan(2017) he was smiling and do you know why? because someone who Logan cared about is alive and she was near him because she actually cared about him.
    The Wolverine from the Logan movie is a completely different version of the character with a completely different history and the events of the movie have nothing to do with the comic version and its continuity though.

    They both are different concepts and I mean Resurrection and Hell in terms of rules of life and death. Mariko was already dead and it shouldn't even counted in terms of continuity give she couldn't have remembered what has happened to her hell. It would defy difference between life and death
    Either way Would she have done that to Logan if she wasn't forced. NO.
    Logan remembers what happened in Hell, Puck, who was also in Hell, even made a reference to this story when he said during the Immortal Hulk series that he already met a Devil, several Marvel characters who went to the afterlife remembers it too. So of course it makes sense for her to remember her time in Hell, and when it comes to the concepts of Resurrection and the afterlife (Hell/in-between/Heaven), several series dealt with those themes in the past in many different ways, there are no clear rules established.

    And I disagree, Mariko has every rights to say she wants to be left alone for a while after what she went through, it doesn't mean she hates Logan it means she needs to figure things on her own.

    Let me rephrase this situation. Amiko wouldn't have broken up her relationship with Logan but it will just be shaken/destabilizes her life in certain ways just like divorce couple. Mariko was Amiko's foster mother, therefore, she has equal rights towards her as much as Logan.
    Again why? Mariko used to be her foster mother but she died when Amiko was still a child, Yukio has been her foster mother afterwards, why would having Logan and Mariko separated destabilized her now? She's not a child anymore and even though she would be happy to see Mariko alive, it won't change the fact that Yukio has been her foster mother for the majority of her life, she was the one who raised her and the one she sees as her mother.

    Lol this exactly contradicts resurrection protocols. And NO Hickman has mostly focused the traumatism of the near-death rather than resurrection.
    No it doesn't and I said Hickman slightly touched upon this subject, which is true as shown during X-Men #5:



    The resurrection of Synch is described here especially the emotional and psychological trauma that comes with it after being dead for a long time, so I'm not sure why you think it contradicts anything, because that's clearly something that was mentioned during this issue.

    This is just a journalist's opinion posted just after the release of HOX #4 and before we knew about the resurrection protocols.

    Did Logan, Scott, Jean, Kurt or Mystique change after they were resurrected? NO, because Hickman didn't want to ruin the buildup. Plain and Simple and yet it was just so much influential.
    The reason the team didn't change afterwards is because they don't have any memory of their deaths and of the whole mission as explained in X-Men #6, they're basically backup versions of their older self before the Orchis mission which means they don't have to deal with the trauma of what happened.



    So yeah I don't think it has anything to do with ruining the buildup or the events of this mission, the resurrection protocols and the consequences that come with it, is most likely going to be something explored soon enough either during X-Men #7 and/or the X-Factor series.

    This mission itself was also a failure in retrospect since Nimrod is already being built, the human who is building it is now hating the mutants more than ever because of what happened to her husband and one of the Mutant might betray them soon so this whole sacrifice may have been for nothing in the end. By trying to stop a future threat, the X-Men may have created something even worse and doomed themselves.
    Last edited by Hush; 02-15-2020 at 05:59 PM.

  3. #453
    Incredible Member GylT'Nav's Avatar
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    As OML and Mariko parted ways for the first time, they did this in friendship. She told him that she feels free from obligations and wanted to catch up with the world on her own terms. She wanted to create a new live and she wanted to choose the way of live herself. To do so, it should be better to keep distance to people of her former live. At least until she figured out her new place in the world.

    As they met a second time, she had figured out what she wanted: she wants a normal live.
    As OML tracked her down in DML, he asked for help. Well, the last time OML needed help was to fight the Hand and Gorgon and it was not pretty and OML almost lost his live. She stated that she is done with those fights and intended to keep her distance from those. That means also from the people who fight those fights. ( I am trying to live a normal live. IT PAINS ME TO SAY.... I need to keep my distance from people like you).
    The Hand turned her against her will into a formidable warrior and used her. It is the decision of a warrior who is trying to live a normal life without going to war again, that is what she is asking for.
    After he asked her to look after Maureen, she agreed because all he asked her to do was to give Maureen a normal live. It is all about the kind of help he is asking for. They hugged as they said good by. They departed as friends.

    It is not shown that she knows that Wolverine is back. She is a changed person due the way the Hand resurrected her. She is not longer the person Wolverine knew, but why should she hate him. She maybe will tell him she same thing she told OML. If Percy wants them to meet again it could be interesting. But I think this should be approached carefully IMO

    That's my 2 cents.
    Last edited by GylT'Nav; 02-15-2020 at 05:22 PM.

  4. #454
    Incredible Member GylT'Nav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    Some art from the upcoming Wolverine series:


    By Viktor Bogdanovic:



    Source: https://twitter.com/VikBogdanovic/st...09249716166656


    By Adam Kubert:



    Source: https://twitter.com/AdamKubert/statu...59558802960384
    Thank you for sharing!
    I think the hippie in the previous picture is Bannister and he is also the left one here. Good aim! LOL

  5. #455

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I won't get too far into it because its a discussion that's derailed way too many thread already, but I can't take that moment seriously because everyone knew they were going to come back, the audience knew even before the protocalls were revealed, and the protocalls have a ton of problems with them. The sacrifice was meaningless and just too overly dramatic.
    They weren't meaningless and they weren't overly dramatic. Heck, they were far from being dramatic than usual resurrection like Return of Wolverine.
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  6. #456
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    They weren't meaningless and they weren't overly dramatic. Heck, they were far from being dramatic than usual resurrection like Return of Wolverine.
    I will at least agree that Return of Wolverine was overly dramatic. And a rehash of every bad Wolverine story from the last 15 years. I can't forgive Claws of a Killer. Or 'hotclaws', ugh.

  7. #457

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    Of course the situation is different, what I mean is that just like in the past, she can't stay with Logan but this time for a different reason. And of course someone can rebuild their own life without the need to have a relationship with someone from their past for a while, in fact sometimes it's better to let go of the past if you want to move on.

    Mariko wanted to be with him because all those stories take place before her death, I mean she got poisoned and had to be killed by the man she loves the most, then spend an eternity in Hell before being revived as a mind controlled weapon by the same organization involved in her death originally. Seriously, if she didn't want to move on after all of that I would have been shocked, her reaction is plausible at least.

    Her story shouldn't always revolve around Logan, giving her some agency and letting her evolve as a character on her own for a while could lead to some interesting development.

    What different reason? Did she want to be free from Logan as well?

    LOL Seriously if this's how Logan and Mariko's relationship is going down then I guess this relationship is now comparable to Logan's far inferior relationships
    now with the current status quo. Btw You do realize this just ruined Logan and Mariko's relationship in certain ways?

    This relationship is now comparable to the likes of Mary Jane and Spidey which was also ruined due to death and resurrection terms of Aunt May with Mephisto.

    Damn, seriously Marvel is now becoming a god of ruining relationships and Logan has inadvertently become the master of it because almost relationship is ruined b4 for Logan and not even taking it to the center stage with more panel time at least for OG Logan.


    The 90s was basically the era of the clones lol but seriously no matter the number of alternate reality characters, clones or a knockoffs, if the original character is loved by many, he will never be replaced permanently.Resurrection if done well can be interesting but the problem is that death & resurrection have become a gimmick in recent years but that doesn't mean a writer can't try to do something new when bringing back a character that have been dead for more than 25 years.
    More and More so for the 2000s and 10's. Logan has triple times clones. Most fans didn't even care for Logan's resurrection because he was milked down by tons of clones/doppelganger.
    Almost 70% of resurrections in comics ruins the characters for generic characterization.

    Let's face it. ROW was never going to work because it was taken as a huge thing for the character development and character itself.

    If she was free from her past and from her crime family, she would have never been resurrected by the Hand and Gorgon in order to gain control of the Yashida clan. She told Logan at the end of the scarlet samurai arc, that for the first time in years she could live without having to bother with her family business, the exact same thing that cost her her wedding with Logan and condemned her to Hell.

    OML is not dumb and he knows it's for the better to let her go because he understands how she's feeling right now since he went through something similar.

    She IS free from her family. She said those words herself.




    She wasn't cautious b4 and now she is even a samurai who can defend herself.

    I think you are showing some signs of hypocrisy Lmao.


    She basically told him: "I'm trying to live a normal life, and as much as it pains me to say that means I need to keep my distance from people like you".

    She just wants to live a normal life for a while and after Logan told her the reason he came to see her, she basically agreed to his request and helped him. I mean a lot of supporting characters sometimes want to live peacefully for a while away from all the superhero nonsense so it's not something uncommon and besides OML isn't her Logan.

    And seriously comparing Taylor and Brisson writing of Old Man Logan? Even though I think Brisson's run had some pacing issues and some odd characterization from times to times, he wrote the old man in a good way most of the time, he acknowledged his backstory and he knew the character's continuity especially his relationship with Jubilee and with Dani, which are much more important than Teen Jean in OML history.

    OML is MORE pacifiest than OG Logan. Let's face it she said that because she considers him "people like him" which is OOC even without comparing how much compassion/empathy she had for Logan before she died.

    You do realize that Taylor did the same thing when Logan met Jean and she considers him some another guy even though he saved her from certain death.

    That's the same thing happened with Mariko and Logan.


    That's 2 completely different versions of Mariko, the one from the Lemire's run is from the past long before her death and the one from the Brisson's run is a character that basically spent years in Hell and who was recently resurrected to be used as a weapon by the Hand and Gorgon, so I don't think it's fair to compare the two scenes especially Logan and Mariko interactions. If Brisson didn't care about both Wolverine and Mariko, he would have never referenced the scene where Logan told his name to her for the first time.

    Even though I prefer the Lemire's run that doesn't mean Brisson's run was horrible, it was a solid run IMO and seriously the Lemire's run was far from perfect especially the second half.
    Yes, They are DIFFERENT versions and that's what I am trying to say. You actually proved my point that the resurrection ruined their relationship.

    People don't remember what happened in hell especially if they are dead BECAUSE it irrationally defies the rules of death and life. It's not like Logan was lord of hell, therefore, he can change them lol?

    Logan remembers what happened in Hell, Puck, who was also in Hell, even made a reference to this story when he said during the Immortal Hulk series that he already met a Devil, several Marvel characters who went to the afterlife remembers it too. So of course it makes sense for her to remember her time in Hell, and when it comes to the concepts of Resurrection and the afterlife (Hell/in-between/Heaven), several series dealt with those themes in the past in many different ways, there are no clear rules established.
    Damn, are you seriously going to argue about this? It is so much irrational that people remember what happened to them during the afterlife or in hell.

    And I disagree, Mariko has every rights to say she wants to be left alone for a while after what she went through, it doesn't mean she hates Logan it means she needs to figure things on her own.
    I am not sure what do you mean by when she has every right to be left alone. She was OOC after she was resurrected. I have never said she hates Logan but everything that was between Logan and Mariko is ruined, at least with respect to Mariko.

    Again why? Mariko used to be her foster mother but she died when Amiko was still a child, Yukio has been her foster mother afterwards, why would having Logan and Mariko separated destabilized her now? She's not a child anymore and even though she would be happy to see Mariko alive, it won't change the fact that Yukio has been her foster mother for the majority of her life, she was the one who raised her and the one she sees as her mother.
    Lol because she loves her foster mother Mariko? It destabilizes her life in certain ways because Logan and Mariko were both original foster parents.


    No, it doesn't and I said Hickman slightly touched upon this subject, which is true as shown during X-Men #5:

    The resurrection of Synch is described here especially the emotional and psychological trauma that comes with it after being dead for a long time, so I'm not sure why you think it contradicts anything, because that's clearly something that was mentioned during this issue.


    The reason the team didn't change afterwards is because they don't have any memory of their deaths and of the whole mission as explained in X-Men #6, they're basically backup versions of their older self before the Orchis mission which means they don't have to deal with the trauma of what happened.

    So yeah I don't think it has anything to do with ruining the buildup or the events of this mission, the resurrection protocols and the consequences that come with it, is most likely going to be something explored soon enough either during X-Men #7 and/or the X-Factor series.

    This mission itself was also a failure in retrospect since Nimrod is already being built, the human who is building it is now hating the mutants more than ever because of what happened to her husband and one of the Mutant might betray them soon so this whole sacrifice may have been for nothing in the end. By trying to stop a future threat, the X-Men may have created something even worse and doomed themselves.

    My bad. I apologize. I haven't read those resurrection protocols.

    Hickman's interpretation can also be referred that he didn't change after he was resurrected but the world has changed around him and he was traumatized temporarily about the situation rather than acting OOC.

    Yeah, I completely agree that the mission was a failure.
    Last edited by Vishop; 02-15-2020 at 11:54 PM.
    Keep Your Society. Take It With You To The Grave.

  8. #458

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    The Wolverine from the Logan movie is a completely different version of the character with a completely different history and the events of the movie have nothing to do with the comic version and its continuity though.
    Lol, I just noticed that I just skimmed through this reply.

    Nah they both are similar characters in many ways. They both are traumatic characters and lost all of their loved ones. Logan also blames himself for the death of the others just like OML.

    Although Both ended up differently. I prefer Logan(2017) because it actually felt a satisfying ending towards the character.
    Keep Your Society. Take It With You To The Grave.

  9. #459

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    Even though I think Brisson's run had some pacing issues and some odd characterization from times to times, he wrote the old man in a good way most of the time, he acknowledged his backstory and he knew the character's continuity especially his relationship with Jubilee and with Dani, which are much more important than Teen Jean in OML history.

    Lemire's narrative on Logan and Jubilee and Teen Jean were FAR more emotional than Brisson's. Fight me. LOL



    Keep Your Society. Take It With You To The Grave.

  10. #460

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    Keep Your Society. Take It With You To The Grave.

  11. #461
    Incredible Member GylT'Nav's Avatar
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    So, there is the other part of the panel:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamKuber...018433/photo/1


    Previous:



    And I am going to be bold now: I bet this is one of those kids:

    Last edited by GylT'Nav; 02-16-2020 at 06:00 AM.

  12. #462
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    What different reason? Did she want to be free from Logan as well?

    LOL Seriously if this's how Logan and Mariko's relationship is going down then I guess this relationship is now comparable to Logan's far inferior relationships
    now with the current status quo. Btw You do realize this just ruined Logan and Mariko's relationship in certain ways?

    This relationship is now comparable to the likes of Mary Jane and Spidey which was also ruined due to death and resurrection terms of Aunt May with Mephisto.

    Damn, seriously Marvel is now becoming a god of ruining relationships and Logan has inadvertently become the master of it because almost relationship is ruined b4 for Logan and not even taking it to the center stage with more panel time at least for OG Logan.
    She wants to be free from this kind of life and as much as it pains her, yeah she needs to stay away from Logan from the time being. Are you seriously comparing what happened in OMD with this story? Especially what happened to Mariko/Logan & MJ/Peter? Tell me you're joking here because that doesn't make any sense at all.

    If you think they just ruined Logan and Mariko's relationship in certain ways that's your opinion, I think that's the opposite and if their reunion is treated properly afterwards it could lead to a new and more interesting dynamic in their relationship down the line.

    More and More so for the 2000s and 10's. Logan has triple times clones. Most fans didn't even care for Logan's resurrection because he was milked down by tons of clones/doppelganger.
    Almost 70% of resurrections in comics ruins the characters for generic characterization.

    Let's face it. ROW was never going to work because it was taken as a huge thing for the character development and character itself.
    Spider-Man had much more clones/knockoffs than Logan during the 90s and during the 00s, and yet despite all of that people wanted him back when he was "killed off" during Superior Spider-Man and for good reason, because no matter how many spider-people you add, none of them will ever replace Peter.

    Only someone who never cared about the original character in the first place would reason that way, none of the Wolverine knockoffs created through the years will ever compare to the original character for the majority of Wolverine fans and saying that most fans didn't care about ROW because of that makes no sense at all. What makes Logan interesting isn't just his powers, it's his history, his personality, his supporting characters, his rogue gallery something all those characters with similar powers created through the years will never have because most of them are just bland.

    ROW didn't work because the writer didn't do any research, because he didn't have any plans on how to bring the character back, because the story had no scope and no ambition and because they've wasted the buildup on other characters instead of focusing on Logan. The simple reason ROW didn't work is because the X-Office put the wrong writer in charge of this story and of this whole saga, just like he was the wrong writer to put in charge during DOW and its aftermath.

    She IS free from her family. She said those words herself.

    She wasn't cautious b4 and now she is even a samurai who can defend herself.

    I think you are showing some signs of hypocrisy Lmao.
    Did you even read my post?

    "If she was free from her past and from her crime family, she would have never been resurrected by the Hand and Gorgon in order to gain control of the Yashida clan. She told Logan at the end of the scarlet samurai arc, that for the first time in years she could live without having to bother with her family business, the exact same thing that cost her her wedding with Logan and condemned her to Hell."

    That's basically what she said in this scene you've posted and in the one afterwards, the Gorgon used her because of her family and now for the first time she won't have to bother with her family business and she can live her own life.

    The next time you're going to tell me that "I'm showing some signs of hypocrisy", read my post correctly before posting.

    OML is MORE pacifiest than OG Logan. Let's face it she said that because she considers him "people like him" which is OOC even without comparing how much compassion/empathy she had for Logan before she died.
    "People like him" also means warriors and superheroes which is why she mentioned the X-Men during their conversation when the old man asked her to take care of Maureen because he wanted Maureen to live away from all of this. If she was OOC she would have refused his request and would have never told him that he has a good heart and that he's not as terrible as he thinks he is.

    You do realize that Taylor did the same thing when Logan met Jean and she considers him some another guy even though he saved her from certain death.

    That's the same thing happened with Mariko and Logan.
    That's a completely different thing, even though I'm not a fan of Taylor's writing of Old Man Logan, what Jean said is true, he isn't her Logan. Of course saying that kind of thing just after she came back and after what he did for her was kind of idiotic and disrespectful and that's something Brisson never did. Brisson basically had the two parting as a friends at the end of the Scarlet Samurai story and DML on good terms, but we don't know what's going to be her reaction when she sees her Logan for the first time.

    Yes, They are DIFFERENT versions and that's what I am trying to say. You actually proved my point that the resurrection ruined their relationship.
    It only proves one thing, people deal with trauma differently and comparing those two scenes and expecting that Logan and Mariko would have behaved the same way as in the past would be a disservice to both characters especially to Mariko in my opinion. Mariko asking to be left alone for a while in order to live a normal life is something common that happened with a lot of characters involved with superheroes in the past after a traumatic event.

    People don't remember what happened in hell especially if they are dead BECAUSE it irrationally defies the rules of death and life. It's not like Logan was lord of hell, therefore, he can change them lol?
    The body can dies but the soul is immortal is a common theme in several religions, in fiction but also in philosophy so it wouldn't be too crazy to think that when a fictional character dies in a fictional universe inhabited by super being, gods and other crazy stuff, they could remember their stay in the afterlife. It doesn't defy the rules of death and life for the simple reason that those rules were never clearly defined in the Marvel Universe. And yeah Logan and Puck both briefly became Lord of Hell during this story when they lifted Soulcutter.

    Damn, are you seriously going to argue about this? It is so much irrational that people remember what happened to them during the afterlife or in hell.
    So? I just referenced past stories that dealt with this theme and you keep ignoring it, if you think it's irrational that's fine, that's your opinion but for me it's no less irrational than some of the things that happened during all those years in the Marvel Universe. And beside not only Puck remembered the events of this story during Immortal Hulk but also during Alpha Flight Vol 4 #2.

    I am not sure what do you mean by when she has every right to be left alone. She was OOC after she was resurrected. I have never said she hates Logan but everything that was between Logan and Mariko is ruined, at least with respect to Mariko.
    "It felt like she hated him in the end and just wanted to move on with her life without him as far as possible."

    That's what you said previously which is why I told you the way I interpreted the scene and how I didn't think she hated him. She has every rights to be alone because after what she went through, she deserves some time away from all the craziness involved with superheroes. If you think she was OOC or that everything has been ruined that's your interpretation, I don't think that's the case for all the reasons I already gave you but to be honest at this point it seems we're running into circles when it comes to this scene and regarding the interpretation of those events.

    Lol because she loves her foster mother Mariko? It destabilizes her life in certain ways because Logan and Mariko were both original foster parents.
    She loved her but she moved on a long time ago after her death, in fact even though she would be happy to see her it could be more destabilizing for Amiko to see Mariko comes back all of sudden in her life years later in my opinion.
    Last edited by Hush; 02-16-2020 at 08:15 AM.

  13. #463
    Incredible Member GylT'Nav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GylT'Nav View Post
    As OML and Mariko parted ways for the first time, they did this in friendship. She told him that she feels free from obligations and wanted to catch up with the world on her own terms. She wanted to create a new live and she wanted to choose the way of live herself. To do so, it should be better to keep distance to people of her former live. At least until she figured out her new place in the world.

    As they met a second time, she had figured out what she wanted: she wants a normal live.
    As OML tracked her down in DML, he asked for help. Well, the last time OML needed help was to fight the Hand and Gorgon and it was not pretty and OML almost lost his live. She stated that she is done with those fights and intended to keep her distance from those. That means also from the people who fight those fights. ( I am trying to live a normal live. IT PAINS ME TO SAY.... I need to keep my distance from people like you).
    The Hand turned her against her will into a formidable warrior and used her. It is the decision of a warrior who is trying to live a normal life without going to war again, that is what she is asking for.
    After he asked her to look after Maureen, she agreed because all he asked her to do was to give Maureen a normal live. It is all about the kind of help he is asking for. They hugged as they said good by. They departed as friends.

    It is not shown that she knows that Wolverine is back. She is a changed person due the way the Hand resurrected her. She is not longer the person Wolverine knew, but why should she hate him. She maybe will tell him she same thing she told OML. If Percy wants them to meet again it could be interesting. But I think this should be approached carefully IMO

    That's my 2 cents.

    I want to add:
    For me it is also the question :'Do I want to join this superhero circus or not'. Getting involved with one of those 'heros' gets her easily dragged into, now that she is a formidable fighter herself. And she made her decision: no I do not want this, even if I have to keep my distance!
    I would love for Marvel to dig deeper into this story of her.
    This has also the potential for an origin story of a hero for her, if marvel wants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    Lol, I just noticed that I just skimmed through this reply.

    Nah they both are similar characters in many ways. They both are traumatic characters and lost all of their loved ones. Logan also blames himself for the death of the others just like OML.

    Although Both ended up differently. I prefer Logan(2017) because it actually felt a satisfying ending towards the character.
    They can both be similar and completely different at the same time. Being a traumatic character that lost their loved one and blaming themselves for the deaths of others is basically the thing that defines the majority of fictional heroes/anti-heroes not just Wolverine. Even though I enjoyed the Logan movie at the time, this Wolverine is much more different than the OML version or the classic Wolverine on several aspects.

    On some aspect, the Logan from the movie and its characterization may have more things in common with the Logan from Wolverine: the End mini than with OML. The cause of the death of both OML/Movie Logan have a lot of similarities that's for sure though.

    Quote Originally Posted by biswaboxz View Post
    Lemire's narrative on Logan and Jubilee and Teen Jean were FAR more emotional than Brisson's. Fight me. LOL
    "Fight me"? Seriously?

    The reason Lemire put much more focus on Logan's emotional trauma and on Jubilee and Teen Jean was because Logan just came back to our universe, he was trying to come to terms with the fact that he had a second chance while still thinking his future could happen one day. The whole point of Lemire's run was to have Logan coming full circle with what happened in his past, accepting it and trying to start living again in the present that's what he said in the last issue of the Lemire's run.

    Brisson followed up on the end of the Lemire's run while still acknowledging Logan's past history and his relationships with Jubilee, Dani and the members of Alpha Flight for example while still having the old man dealing with both threats from his past (Hulk gang, Mariko, Gorgon, Weapon X, Mysterio) and new threats (Kraven, Bullseye). His story was still emotional, especially the Dead Man Logan storyline, the Scarlet Samurai arc or the Alpha Flight story while still focusing on Logan's relationships with characters not used by Lemire, some of them with deeper connection to OML history than teen Jean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GylT'Nav View Post
    I want to add:
    For me it is also the question :'Do I want to join this superhero circus or not'. Getting involved with one of those 'heros' gets her easily dragged into, now that she is a formidable fighter herself. And she made her decision: no I do not want this, even if I have to keep my distance!
    I would love for Marvel to dig deeper into this story of her.
    This has also the potential for an origin story of a hero for her, if marvel wants.
    I missed your previous post but yeah that's how I understood this whole exchange too, she just wants to keep her distance from all those "superheroes drama" for now. I do agree that it could lead to a great origin story for her and helped her develop as her own character down the line, I just hope her story is going to be handled well by the next writer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GylT'Nav View Post
    So, there is the other part of the panel:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamKuber...018433/photo/1


    Previous:



    And I am going to be bold now: I bet this is one of those kids:

    Nice catch, at first I thought this scene was taking place in an hospital for sick children but yeah maybe it's connected to that other panel. I do wonder what's the deal with those children we saw previously, they seems to be infected with something.
    Last edited by Hush; 02-16-2020 at 08:00 AM.

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