Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2020

[Hush]

What kind of Wolverine stories do you guys all like? In my experience there are 2 camps: fans who like Wolverine with the X-men and fans who like him on his own doing his own thing.

I like both as long as the character is written well but if I really have to choose, I would say solo as long as some of his closest friends appears from time to time similar to how Larry Hama did it during his run on the main series for example.

As GylT'Nav said, in the end it all come down to how a writer will be able to balance those two sides of Logan's personality but unfortunately it's something a lot of writers have had trouble with in recent years.

He's not wrong saying that, lol. Sorry, for not responding sooner.


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https://twitter.com/PatrickZircher/s...75111337574400

Logan is a man of wisdom

No problem Thanks for the art, so either it's a flashback (Logan is wearing his old costume) or Wolverine is coming back to the Savage Avengers series soon!

which main x-men writer do you think understand wolverine the best?

If we're only talking about the main flagship X-Men books: Chris Claremont during his first Uncanny X-Men/X-Men/Classic X-Men run, Joe Kelly during X-Men, Grant Morrison during New X-Men, Rick Remender during Uncanny X-Force, Jonathan Hickman's HOX/POX and right now I enjoy how he's written by Hickman in X-Men and Benjamin Percy in X-Force.

If we talking about his solo adventures, Claremont during the first two Wolverine minis/MCP/Wolverine ongoing, Hama during Wolverine/Weapon X and Barry Windsor Smith during MCP are the best of the best and basically established what kind of character Wolverine is, so yeah they're the ones who understand the character the best. Then Peter David during his MCP/Wolverine stories and Archie Goodwyn, Joe Duffy, Warren Ellis, Steve Skroce, Frank Tieri, Greg Rucka and Mark Millar during their Wolverine runs all understood the character perfectly too.

Not an X-Men book, but I also like how he was written when he was part of the new Fantastic Four during that short story by Walt Simonson/Art Adams, same thing recently during the first arc of Savage Avengers by Gerry Duggan/Mike Deodato Jr.

[Hush]

It was time dammit, they left us all hanging with that Hunt mini with DD lol.

Lmao so true, it's time for Albert to rise again!!!!!!

Haven't noticed this until now. But i think that the problem with the modern Wolverine as i comented in other thread, is that writers can't decide what kindnof anti-hero is he supposed to be. If he a man with good intentions that is willing to do unsavory, morally questionable things for the sake of innocent people or if he just a bastard that deep down is simply directing his worst impulses to people that are more awfull than him (kind of like Ennis Punisher).

Yeah that's the main problem with the character in recent years and I honestly prefer that first interpretation he was much more compelling and unique that way but in recent years they really go all the way with the second interpretation unfortunately. For now Percy has done a good job with the character during X-Force, the Logan from the Long Night/Lost Trail podcast juggle between the two interpretations though so I'm curious about how he's going to handle the character in this new solo series.

Like you said, the character starts in an happy place so it's already intriguing but even though I'm hyped I'm still cautious, like GylT'Nav said it's hard to trust interviews nowadays especially after what happened the last time we were all hyped for a Wolverine story lol.

Logan got much more character development from CC and Hama than from Tieri. I can barely remember anything from Tieri's run other than Mr X (ugh).

Now to be honest, when it comes to Wolverine's character development, I'm not sure if any writer will ever come close to what Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Larry Hama or Barry Windsor Smith did. They didn't "create" the character but their work is the reason the character became so popular, they are the ones who defined Wolverine.

[TheCape]

Ok, I was really bad with my words here, I should reprase:
What came after #181 was written by Tieri, Nixon and Way before Rucka's run and was more on the site of the antihero archetype of : 'bastard that deep down is simply directing his worst impulses to people that are more awfull than him' (with other words: 'a%$hole' site). This is a take on Logan I do not like much. I think Tieris run should have ended with #176 I think this is worded better, and I apologize.

Told you so man. I like some parts of the story, but the tone of Logan's characther feel to different from Tieri's previous work.

[Vishop]

Ok, I was really bad with my words here, I should reprase:
What came after #181 was written by Tieri, Nixon and Way before Rucka's run and was more on the site of the antihero archetype of : 'bastard that deep down is simply directing his worst impulses to people that are more awfull than him' (with other words: 'a%$hole' site). This is a take on Logan I do not like much. I think Tieris run should have ended with #176 I think this is worded better, and I apologize.

I liked it(#181-#185)! It's one of the grittiest/realistic and fresh/unique take on Logan and that's one of the reasons I believe Tieri was Wolverine's Ennis! I know there are very few audiences for this type of tropes but there are tons of movies that won Academy Awards on these movies. It has humor, mobs, guns and Wolverine. Wolverine was subtly characterized. He was killing the bad guys(Romans and Lep Boys) but he is not like he is going all round berserk to kill all of them.

I even believe that one would have been nominated for best-adapted screenplay for this adaptation. Chasers's remind me a lot of this scene from Pulp Fiction. It was awesome.

[Vishop]

It's Albert, he's going to find her lol.



Yeah I'm not a big fan of AvX, it's just the standard classic crossover where heroes have to act dumb in order to fight for some reason lol. IvX is just one of the worst crossover ever.



Peter David did three X-Factor runs, one during the 90s, one during the 00s (just after the Madrox mini) and another one in 2014. One of my favorite issue of the 90s is X-Factor #87, such a great issue.

The story with Joe Fixit in the Wolverine ongoing by David was really good, I also like how he wrote Wolverine and the X-Men during his Incredible Hulk run:

I haven't read anything yet from Peter David's X-Factor or Hulk but I am really going to give it a try. I loved his run with Claremont.

[Hush]

Ok, I was really bad with my words here, I should reprase:
What came after #181 was written by Tieri, Nixon and Way before Rucka's run and was more on the site of the antihero archetype of : 'bastard that deep down is simply directing his worst impulses to people that are more awfull than him' (with other words: 'a%$hole' site). This is a take on Logan I do not like much. I think Tieris run should have ended with #176 I think this is worded better, and I apologize.

Told you so man. I like some parts of the story, but the tone of Logan's characther feel to different from Tieri's previous work.

I think one of the reasons for the different tone and why the character feels different is because of the change of editor, Tieri mentioned during an interview that when Alonso arrived on the series as an editor with issue #181, he wanted things to slow down but also to look at the character from another angle something both Tieri & Alonso agreed:

"What I'm doing now under Axel Alonso is looking at Wolverine from a different angle."

"Before Axel, the book was a high octane graphic action orientated series. They were moving a mile a minute and Axel had us slow things down a little bit. We all mutually agreed that going in this direction was a good idea. We decided to just take a look at Wolverine from a different point of view and have a few more character driven tales instead of relying solely on the action. I wanted to get into his mind and see what made him tick. In these next few issues, you're really seeing what I think makes Wolverine tick and the kind of guy he truly is."

Source: https://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfi...romakers3.html


In another interview Alonso also mentioned the way he saw the Wolverine book before his arrival and what Tieri wanted to do with the book:

"Prior to coming on the title, I'd viewed 'Wolverine' as something like the WWF of the Marvel line -- big, fun, gaudy action. That said, Frank Tieri always wanted to toughen the book up, ditch the trappings that come with the spandex, and I was, in Joe Q's eyes, the logical fit for this change."


He told what was his mandate when he arrived on the book:

"I have a very different mandate with 'Wolverine' than I did with 'X-Force' [now 'X-Statix'] or 'Incredible Hulk.' 'Wolverine' monthly is a solid performer that has carved out -- pun intended -- a comfortable spot in the Top Twenty. What I've been asked to do is help the current creative team -- Frank [Tieri] and Sean [Chen] -- refocus the book so that it has its own identity in the X-Men line."

"Part of this identity, explains Alonso, is derived from the understanding that "Wolverine" is about Logan cutting loose. "Logan is the ultimate loner. What he does in 'New X-men' -- that's his job. He wears a uniform, he takes orders, he fights Sentinels, he's on the clock. What he does in 'Wolverine' -- that's his free time. He's doing what guys like him do with their leisure time: Look for trouble."

"Our goal is a series you love or hate on its own terms," stresses Alonso and adds, "We're not really impacted at all by the movie, creatively speaking. It's sort of like my mandate on 'Hulk': make the character accessible."


He then explained the way he saw the character at the time:

"Wolverine is a hunter," Alonso explained to CBR News of the series' title character. "He has unique senses, instincts and skills, and a moral code that sets him apart in the Marvel Universe. We're going to do stories that take advantage of this. I think it's Logan's moral code, more than anything, that makes him popular -- the fact that he isn't afraid to unleash the inner animal on those who deserve it. Unlike Bruce Banner who is fighting a battle with the monster within, Logan has made peace with that animal. Every now and then he knows that he has to let it out to play. I think that some folks appreciate the fact that he'll go all the way in dispensing justice."

Source: https://www.cbr.com/the-best-at-what...lks-wolverine/


You can see where Alonso wanted to take Wolverine, why the tone of the second Tieri's run was so different and how the Rucka's run came to be later on. It's a similar approach to what he did on Hulk when he was the editor during the Bruce Jones run.

But I do agree, even though I still enjoy this arc (I like issue #181, the cameo scene in #183 and the encounter with the hitman in issue #184), I prefer his original run.

[Vishop]

https://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfi...romakers3.html

I am not sure I can agree with this whole interview especially with the fact he doesn't agree that Wolverine shouldn't smoke lol because .........






But on a serious note, like I said b4 if fans want Ennis to write Wolverine(in a good way) then this is what would have happened. A more realistic take on Wolverine in other words. I would prefer Tieri's short-run over Way by FAR.

[Gylfie]

Thanks for the info Hush, this explains a lot. After I read those issues I thought this to be the tipping point for 'modern' Wolverine.

[pkingdom]

Except for that moment with Nightcrawler, I'm not liking the current take on Wolverine. Feels like they regressed him back 'angry gung-ho soldier'

Not much love for Dad Wolverine? I have like an entire folder of fanart of him taking care of little kid Daken and Laura. Here's my favorite:



I have to admit I'm not totally caught up on every Wolverine series, so a lot of the talk about specific writers goes over my head.

[Gylfie]

Yes, time to lighten up!
This was posted by Sin Nick back in 2017:
Wolverine and Amiko (Wolverine Vol.2 #82)

[Hush]

https://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfi...romakers3.html

I am not sure I can agree with this whole interview especially with the fact he doesn't agree that Wolverine shouldn't smoke lol because .........

[img]https://i.ibb.co/pRNz8D0/Wolverine-184-004.jpg[img]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/k4HJn7L/Wolverine-184-006.jpg[img]

But on a serious note, like I said b4 if fans want Ennis to write Wolverine(in a good way) then this is what would have happened. A more realistic take on Wolverine in other words. I would prefer Tieri's short-run over Way by FAR.

Lol that scene was great.

Except for that moment with Nightcrawler, I'm not liking the current take on Wolverine. Feels like they regressed him back 'angry gung-ho soldier'

Not much love for Dad Wolverine? I have like an entire folder of fanart of him taking care of little kid Daken and Laura. Here's my favorite:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/3N27Gwu.png[img]

I have to admit I'm not totally caught up on every Wolverine series, so a lot of the talk about specific writers goes over my head.

When it comes to Wolverine as a "father figure", I like his relationship with Amiko, Jubilee and Kitty. I like Logan & Laura together especially when written by Kyle/Yost & Liu in the past. Although it's an unpopular opinion I prefer them as brother and sister but with that said I don't mind them as father/daughter especially when you look at some past stories especially when Laura said that Logan was the closest thing she had as a father if she wasn't his clone (that was before Taylor's retcon) or later on, when Logan said he wanted to adopt her in order to be her family but she said he already was so I'm not sure if he ever went through the process lol. I would have preferred for Gambit to adopt her to be honest.

I'm not a big fan of Daken, Rien or the other children they gave him to be honest, they're just "meh" to me and a constant reminder of stories that completely butchered the character and his history so the less I see of them the better lol. With that said, I liked the grandchildren and this whole "cooking family" Claremont gave to Logan during the Exit Wounds one shot.

Yes, time to lighten up!
This was posted by Sin Nick back in 2017:
Wolverine and Amiko (Wolverine Vol.2 #82)

[Img]https://i.imgur.com/VFBmATc.jpg[img]

Hell Yeah Amiko!!!! She's the best and only Logan can look frightening with a pantyhose on his head lmao

[Dthirds3]

I really wish we get a comic where Logan and all of his kids are together...

[TheCape]

Lol that scene was great.



When it comes to Wolverine as a "father figure", I like his relationship with Amiko, Jubilee and Kitty. I like Logan & Laura together especially when written by Kyle/Yost & Liu in the past. Although it's an unpopular opinion I prefer them as brother and sister but with that said I don't mind them as father/daughter especially when you look at some past stories especially when Laura said that Logan was the closest thing she had as a father if she wasn't his clone (that was before Taylor's retcon) or later on, when Logan said he wanted to adopt her in order to be her family but she said he already was so I'm not sure if he ever went through the process lol. I would have preferred for Gambit to adopt her to be honest.

I'm not a big fan of Daken, Rien or the other children they gave him to be honest, they're just "meh" to me and a constant reminder of stories that completely butchered the character and his history so the less I see of them the better lol. With that said, I liked the grandchildren and this whole "cooking family" Claremont gave to Logan during the Exit Wounds one shot.



Hell Yeah Amiko!!!! She's the best and only Logan can look frightening with a pantyhose on his head lmao

Personally speaking, Jubilee is the only one of his sidekick that he treast like a daugther, his relation with the others was more akin to an uncle or a big brother figure. Maybe is just bias, because in my opinion, in spite the fact has a soft spot for children, i don't really think that he acts like a father most of the time, Amiko and Jubilee are the only ones that i can really count as his daugthers. Still i don't really have problem with him being seen as a father to the Kitty or Laura.

Also yeah, that #82 is still awesome, pantyhose Logan totally should be his new costume in the next X-Men game lol

[Hush]

This talk about Logan as a father figure and the recent announcement of iWolverine reminds me of this page from Marvel Comics 1001 by Larry Hama & Andrea Sorrentino:



The best

[Gylfie]

Personally speaking, Jubilee is the only one of his sidekick that he treast like a daugther, his relation with the others was more akin to an uncle or a big brother figure. Maybe is just bias, because in my opinion, in spite the fact has a soft spot for children, i don't really think that he acts like a father most of the time, Amiko and Jubilee are the only ones that i can really count as his daugthers. Still i don't really have problem with him being seen as a father to the Kitty or Laura.

Also yeah, that #82 is still awesome, pantyhose Logan totally should be his new costume in the next X-Men game lol

Second this!

This talk about Logan as a father figure and the recent announcement of iWolverine reminds me of this page from Marvel Comics 1001 by Larry Hama & Andrea Sorrentino:



The best

LOL!That is great!