Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2020

[WeaponX]

I like the entire book through Tieris run. Rucka’s run stunk and was more worried about Logan being ugly than telling a memorable story. Wolverine origins ongoing is nothing but bad fan fiction to me. Promises you some grand government spanning conspiracy in the first few issues but than goes nah it was Logan the whole time in a lame attempt at a twist. And Romulus was pure fan fiction. I can just see some 11 year old pitching the idea, get this he’s a cross between Wolverine and Sabertooth except he’s bigger than both and he has five huge claws on each hand! Plus he’s not a mutant he’s a cat person. He’s just as cool as anything.

[Hush]

So what's the deal with Daniel Way's run?

It’s a really bad run, not just flawed in its execution but also in its premise, it's a run that added several retcons that retroactively ruined some of the greatest Wolverine stories and butchered Wolverine and his supporting cast. To give you an idea, Wolverine is my favorite Marvel character but by the end of the Way’s run I just wanted the character to die a horrible death and never come back before a competent writer fixes what Way did.

If you see a Wolverine story written by Way, Loeb, Cornell or Soule just don't bother lol.

It's that bad, huh? Makes me slightly curious.

Even worse that you could imagine, Way really turned Logan into an irredeemable monster that should have been executed for crimes against humanity for what he did during this run. Add what Loeb did at the same time and some time later with his "Sabretooth Reborn" story and you have to wonder if Marvel really wanted to turn the character into the most despicable person in the Marvel Universe at the time.

Alright so from what I gather the best solo Wolverine material to read is Claremont/Miller, Hama and Greg Rucka(?). Anything else I should check out?

I've made a recommended reading list in the OP of this thread that can help you regarding solo Wolverine material but I would say the first mini by Claremont/Miller and its followup by Claremont/Smith are amazing. The second mini by Claremont/Milgrom is good and Barry Windsor Smith MCP run is the best thing ever.

Now regarding the Wolverine ongoing, the first 90 issues of his ongoing by Chris Claremont, Peter David, Archie Goodwyn, Joe Duffy and Larry Hama (the Hama's run starts with issue #31) are mostly good (except for the Silver Fox retcon which is terrible), after that you still have some good issues left and right (#93 & #96 especially) but Wolverine really jumped the shark with issue #100 and the Hama's run never fully recovered unfortunately.

After the end of the Hama's run, the short Warren Ellis' run with Leinil Yu is really good, the Larsen's run is boring but at least he "fixed" the character during his run (the art by Leinil Yu is just astounding though). After that, you have Steve Skroce's short run which is fun, then the Tieri's run which is really good and a great starting point for new readers, the Rucka's run is great too even though the last arc is disappointing and finally the two Millar's runs which are amazing too.

I hesitated to include the Aaron's run in the OP because even though I think as a whole it's a good run there are a lot of problems with it. But give it a try, he wrote some good issues especially the "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.

The recent Old Man Logan series especially the Lemire/Sorrentino run is really good too even though I was a little disappointed by the last 6 issues, mostly because of the pacing and the change of artist. The Brisson's run is mostly good but suffered from a lot of pacing issues unfortunately.

[TheCape]

It’s a really bad run, not just flawed in its execution but also in its premise, it's a run that added several retcons that retroactively ruined some of the greatest Wolverine stories and butchered Wolverine and his supporting cast. To give you an idea, Wolverine is my favorite Marvel character but by the end of the Way’s run I just wanted the character to die a horrible death and never come back before a competent writer fixes what Way did.

If you see a Wolverine story written by Way, Loeb, Cornell or Soule just don't bother lol.



Even worse that you could imagine, Way really turned Logan into an irredeemable monster that should have been executed for crimes against humanity for what he did during this run. Add what Loeb did at the same time and some time later with his "Sabretooth Reborn" story and you have to wonder if Marvel really wanted to turn the character into the most despicable person in the Marvel Universe at the time.



I've made a recommended reading list in the OP of this thread that can help you regarding solo Wolverine material but I would say the first mini by Claremont/Miller and its followup by Claremont/Smith are amazing. The second mini by Claremont/Milgrom is good and Barry Windsor Smith MCP run is the best thing ever.

Now regarding the Wolverine ongoing, the first 90 issues of his ongoing by Chris Claremont, Peter David, Archie Goodwyn, Joe Duffy and Larry Hama (the Hama's run starts with issue #31) are mostly good (except for the Silver Fox retcon which is terrible), after that you still have some good issues left and right (#93 & #96 especially) but Wolverine really jumped the shark with issue #100 and the Hama's run never fully recovered unfortunately.

After the end of the Hama's run, the short Warren Ellis' run with Leinil Yu is really good, the Larsen's run is boring but at least he "fixed" the character during his run (the art by Leinil Yu is just astounding though). After that, you have Steve Skroce's short run which is fun, then the Tieri's run which is really good and a great starting point for new readers, the Rucka's run is great too even though the last arc is disappointing and finally the two Millar's runs which are amazing too.

I hesitated to include the Aaron's run in the OP because even though I think as a whole it's a good run there are a lot of problems with it. But give it a try, he wrote some good issues especially the "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.

The recent Old Man Logan series especially the Lemire/Sorrentino run is really good too even though I was a little disappointed by the last 6 issues, mostly because of the pacing and the change of artist. The Brisson's run is mostly good but suffered from a lot of pacing issues unfortunately.

More or less what i would have say. I also had a hard time recomending Aaron's run because there is a lot of bad mixed with the good. I personally found the "Revenge" story arc ridiculous even if the idea has some merit, everything after that is just decent at best or mediocre at worst (except for the Doop issue of.course that was a masterpiece lol).

[Gylfie]

It’s a really bad run, not just flawed in its execution but also in its premise, it's a run that added several retcons that retroactively ruined some of the greatest Wolverine stories and butchered Wolverine and his supporting cast. To give you an idea, Wolverine is my favorite Marvel character but by the end of the Way’s run I just wanted the character to die a horrible death and never come back before a competent writer fixes what Way did.

If you see a Wolverine story written by Way, Loeb, Cornell or Soule just don't bother lol.



Even worse that you could imagine, Way really turned Logan into an irredeemable monster that should have been executed for crimes against humanity for what he did during this run. Add what Loeb did at the same time and some time later with his "Sabretooth Reborn" story and you have to wonder if Marvel really wanted to turn the character into the most despicable person in the Marvel Universe at the time.



I've made a recommended reading list in the OP of this thread that can help you regarding solo Wolverine material but I would say the first mini by Claremont/Miller and its followup by Claremont/Smith are amazing. The second mini by Claremont/Milgrom is good and Barry Windsor Smith MCP run is the best thing ever.

Now regarding the Wolverine ongoing, the first 90 issues of his ongoing by Chris Claremont, Peter David, Archie Goodwyn, Joe Duffy and Larry Hama (the Hama's run starts with issue #31) are mostly good (except for the Silver Fox retcon which is terrible), after that you still have some good issues left and right (#93 & #96 especially) but Wolverine really jumped the shark with issue #100 and the Hama's run never fully recovered unfortunately.

After the end of the Hama's run, the short Warren Ellis' run with Leinil Yu is really good, the Larsen's run is boring but at least he "fixed" the character during his run (the art by Leinil Yu is just astounding though). After that, you have Steve Skroce's short run which is fun, then the Tieri's run which is really good and a great starting point for new readers, the Rucka's run is great too even though the last arc is disappointing and finally the two Millar's runs which are amazing too.

I hesitated to include the Aaron's run in the OP because even though I think as a whole it's a good run there are a lot of problems with it. But give it a try, he wrote some good issues especially the "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.

The recent Old Man Logan series especially the Lemire/Sorrentino run is really good too even though I was a little disappointed by the last 6 issues, mostly because of the pacing and the change of artist. The Brisson's run is mostly good but suffered from a lot of pacing issues unfortunately.

I agree on what you are writing here.

I have read most of the Wolverine stuff digitally available. Now I am rereading it in anticipation of the upcoming series. I just finished the stuff up to 2003, so my memory about the details of the newer stuff is maybe a bit murky, but I try to summarise my overall impression.

The "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.",
well this is the only stuff I like about Aaron's run.

While I ignore origins, it is hard not to notice how the character was handled after it. IMO Origins shifted the way Wolverine was written and viewed by the authors. (Have not read the team books that lead into Wolverine ending uo in the x-force books, I have read x- force by Kyle and Yost and Uncanny x-force,tho.)
Before Origins he was more optimistically written: trying to become a better person even if he did not know to ever reach this goal. There was a fine balance between savagery and heroism.
Wolverine's best stories come from the characters capability to feel empathy, to fight for the people he cares deeply for or for some stranger in need. And hit those hard who needs the stabbing. For this to work, you need him interact with the people he fights for, to display his human side.

After Origins, Aaron established him as a guilt and revenge driven mess. After getting his memories back the character knew that there was no option to become a better person, he knew that he was dammed because of his former live without the possibility of redemption. So he soldiered on. All he could do now was to prevent others from following his path. This or revenge. He did the dirty work so that others did not need to. Well, at least he still tried to do the right thing. For me Claremont and Millers first Wolverine solo is the Gold standard I messure Wolverine stories, so while a lot of fans enjoy him on x force by Kyle and Yost and Remender, for me this is the character's declare of defeat. While he fought for his fellow mutants he still ends up where he started. That is not a good character arc overall, IMO.
And then you have Wolverine and the x men. I have only read the first volumes. And you think what I am reading here?
Splitting both aspects of Logan's personality into two series: The fine balance that worked until Rucka's run overall, was thrown out of the window.
I have no problems with a story of Wolverine going for revenge or going after weapon x or something, but IMO this does not work for a sole foundation of the character, it should be carefully balanced out.

[Gylfie]

Nice!



Yeah looking at thr solicits of Wolverine #3 it looks like Logan will have to make some morally ambiguous decisions. Same thing with X-Force, it looks like Beast's actions in the last issue are going to put the team in jeopardy during issues #9 & #10 so with any luck we're going to see how Logan will react to that situation and to what Beast did.

And while I enjoy Percy's take on X force so far, yes I am anxious how Percy handles Wolverines role in it.

[TheCape]

I agree on what you are writing here.

I have read most of the Wolverine stuff digitally available. Now I am rereading it in anticipation of the upcoming series. I just finished the stuff up to 2003, so my memory about the details of the newer stuff is maybe a bit murky, but I try to summarise my overall impression.

The "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.",
well this is the only stuff I like about Aaron's run.

While I ignore origins, it is hard not to notice how the character was handled after it. IMO Origins shifted the way Wolverine was written and viewed by the authors. (Have not read the team books that lead into Wolverine ending uo in the x-force books, I have read x- force by Kyle and Yost and Uncanny x-force,tho.)
Before Origins he was more optimistically written: trying to become a better person even if he did not know to ever reach this goal. There was a fine balance between savagery and heroism.
Wolverine's best stories come from the characters capability to feel empathy, to fight for the people he cares deeply for or for some stranger in need. And hit those hard who needs the stabbing. For this to work, you need him interact with the people he fights for, to display his human side.

After Origins, Aaron established him as a guilt and revenge driven mess. After getting his memories back the character knew that there was no option to become a better person, he knew that he was dammed because of his former live without the possibility of redemption. So he soldiered on. All he could do now was to prevent others from following his path. This or revenge. He did the dirty work so that others did not need to. Well, at least he still tried to do the right thing. For me Claremont and Millers first Wolverine solo is the Gold standard I messure Wolverine stories, so while a lot of fans enjoy him on x force by Kyle and Yost and Remender, for me this is the character's declare of defeat. While he fought for his fellow mutants he still ends up where he started. That is not a good character arc overall, IMO.
And then you have Wolverine and the x men. I have only read the first volumes. And you think what I am reading here?
Splitting both aspects of Logan's personality into two series: The fine balance that worked until Rucka's run overall, was thrown out of the window.
I have no problems with a story of Wolverine going for revenge or going after weapon x or something, but IMO this does not work for a sole foundation of the character, it should be carefully balanced out.

Very well put, i had the exact same thougths about Wolverine in that regard, but you put it in words better than i could.

[Gylfie]

Very well put, i had the exact same thougths about Wolverine in that regard, but you put it in words better than i could.

Thank you.

Some Art tease by Viktor Bogdanovic:
https://mobile.twitter.com/VikBogdan...777408/photo/1


Did the guy just eat the fly he had captured ?

[Vishop]

It’s a really bad run, not just flawed in its execution but also in its premise, it's a run that added several retcons that retroactively ruined some of the greatest Wolverine stories and butchered Wolverine and his supporting cast. To give you an idea, Wolverine is my favorite Marvel character but by the end of the Way’s run I just wanted the character to die a horrible death and never come back before a competent writer fixes what Way did.

If you see a Wolverine story written by Way, Loeb, Cornell or Soule just don't bother lol.



Even worse that you could imagine, Way really turned Logan into an irredeemable monster that should have been executed for crimes against humanity for what he did during this run. Add what Loeb did at the same time and some time later with his "Sabretooth Reborn" story and you have to wonder if Marvel really wanted to turn the character into the most despicable person in the Marvel Universe at the time.



I've made a recommended reading list in the OP of this thread that can help you regarding solo Wolverine material but I would say the first mini by Claremont/Miller and its followup by Claremont/Smith are amazing. The second mini by Claremont/Milgrom is good and Barry Windsor Smith MCP run is the best thing ever.

Now regarding the Wolverine ongoing, the first 90 issues of his ongoing by Chris Claremont, Peter David, Archie Goodwyn, Joe Duffy and Larry Hama (the Hama's run starts with issue #31) are mostly good (except for the Silver Fox retcon which is terrible), after that you still have some good issues left and right (#93 & #96 especially) but Wolverine really jumped the shark with issue #100 and the Hama's run never fully recovered unfortunately.

After the end of the Hama's run, the short Warren Ellis' run with Leinil Yu is really good, the Larsen's run is boring but at least he "fixed" the character during his run (the art by Leinil Yu is just astounding though). After that, you have Steve Skroce's short run which is fun, then the Tieri's run which is really good and a great starting point for new readers, the Rucka's run is great too even though the last arc is disappointing and finally the two Millar's runs which are amazing too.

I hesitated to include the Aaron's run in the OP because even though I think as a whole it's a good run there are a lot of problems with it. But give it a try, he wrote some good issues especially the "Man in the Pit", "The End of the Beginning", "A mile in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini.

The recent Old Man Logan series especially the Lemire/Sorrentino run is really good too even though I was a little disappointed by the last 6 issues, mostly because of the pacing and the change of artist. The Brisson's run is mostly good but suffered from a lot of pacing issues unfortunately.

Anything related to Loeb's run is downward terrible. It's not just the story but the art is also bizarre. I am not a fan of Bianchi's art at all. Origins' art was actually pretty good, Dillion's. I like his classic style. Way's run has generic retcons up and down but he has shown prowess at the very least.

I loved Hama's run throughout. Never cared for Silver Fox retcon. Thought it was actually cool character development and then there is #75 and #57 issue. They all are pretty good and I have even brought them as single issues. I have also liked Elektra and Wolverine's arc after the 100th issue. It just shows despite his mutation he is human with feelings. I thought it was pretty emotional for both Elektra and Logan. Then there is AOA Weapon X. I have to collect the whole collection. I thought it was pretty worth it because damn it was emotional when Jean left her.

Modern Wolverine comics should take inspiration from Tieri's run. Aaron also did on #175 issue IIRC. But he was somewhat letdown for me especially Mystique arc. I have collected lots of physical collections from Larry Hama's run and Tieri's. I have brought Return of Weapon X and Law of the Jungle. They are totally recommended.

Larry Hama's and Claremont's run are mostly Essentials' collections honestly. I have also collected most of Craig Kyle's run(#1-11) and Remender's run(#1-19).
I think I will buy Lobdell's and Brubaker's run on X-Men if possible.

Honestly, I love OML more than Wolverine. I have collected all of it excluding Brisson's run. Though I read his DML online. It was ok I guess.
I would buy Carey's run if possible. I loved Hickman's last issue.

[Vishop]

Thank you.

Some Art tease by Viktor Bogdanovic:
https://mobile.twitter.com/VikBogdan...777408/photo/1


Ate the guy just the fly he captured ?

ewww

10char

[Gylfie]

I forgott: I really like the interaction between Wolverine and Nightcrawler in Aaron's first arc of Amazing x-men.

[Wolverine12]

I really liked Aaron’s run...

[Mr Abductor]

I really liked Aaron’s run...

He didn't pull his punches lol, didn't translate as well for Thor though, especially his fans.

[Vishop]

He didn't pull his punches lol, didn't translate as well for Thor though, especially his fans.

Aaron's has up and downs for the of the occasion but the retcon with Revan was..... ugh. The only better thing he has done Astonishing SM and Wolverine.

[Vishop]

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[Wolverine12]

He didn't pull his punches lol, didn't translate as well for Thor though, especially his fans.

I liked his run on Thor including Unworthy....(didn’t care too much for Jane Thor)

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