Logan: Wolverine Appreciation 2020

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Agreed. I honestly loath all the Wolverine legacy characters. It’s just so redundant. In my opinion characters with Wolverine’s power set should have stopped at Sabertooth. And it’s infuriating that basically only Wolverine has to deal with seventy five characters just like him. I know Cap has US agent and Spidey has multiple iteration so maybe spidey and Wolverine have this problem. But there aren’t twenty optic blast up tight Boy Scout running around. Or fifty illegitimate Kitty Pride kids. Ok end of rant. Laura alright too when being written properly.

They do this lack of originality thing with most of the iconic characters. Wolverine, Spider-Man, Iron man, Phoenix, Thor.

It's easier to take iconic imagery and do a Donut Steel than it is to make something new.

That said, I like X-23 and Honey Badger.

[Purplevit]

You are very talented. Well done.

Thank you. Glad that you liked

[Purplevit]

So what if Solem will be a 10th Karkoa Swordsman? He will fight Gorgon and kick his ass. Then offer a deal. Solem will surrender in this fight if Gorgon give him 1 Sword and so Solem can become a part of Krakoa team. Maybe it was a deal with Wolverine?

[PlotDevice]

Agreed. I honestly loath all the Wolverine legacy characters.

Yes. Have them all try to save the X-Men during X of Swords, where they can die... and do just that.

In my opinion characters with Wolverine’s power set should have stopped at Sabertooth.

Yes. Willing to deal with Lady Deathstrike because her powers are cybernetic based and her motivations for being similar and hating him make sense.

Laura alright too when being written properly.

Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full. Everything about her that matters is derived directly from what already defines Wolverine. Nothing except her gender and being generally boring makes her in any way original.

Really think they should lower everyone healing factors powers, specially logans.

Yeah this always bothers me. NO ONE ever says Spider-Man should be less agile, Hulk should be physically weaker, Iron Man shouldn't keep upgrading his armor. Only Wolverine needs to be weakened. Annoying. First, get rid of all the healing powers. Make Logan's main power unique. While we are at it, stop giving characters adamantium implants. Let the things that make a character unique actually be UNIQUE. The healing factor is also the main way to show Logan's powerset. No writer wants to focus on his other abilities. No writer has him use things like his super senses, enhanced speed/strength/agility/reflexes, his animal empathy, his stealth, tracking, vast fighting skills, etc... Writers are lazy. It's more impressive to show him as a pissed off half a skeleton limp-stalking his enemies like an unkillable zombie. Less emphasis on healing factor is fine, but only if he's written like he used to be, with other skill sets.

I feel like creating a situation where he can accualy be damaged is to hard without a maguffen involved.

Of course it is. No mutants can be killed these days. Having a healing factor at all these days is redundant.

I like the power creep on Logan’s healing factor. The scene of his skeleton crawling out of the hell fire in the last issue of Wolverine (or was it X-Force) was bad ass. Granted that happened in hell so whatever is “normal” doesn’t apply.

Except he has done that multiple times before on EARTH, so it just upholds the standard. Also if the damage means nothing because it's hell........ why do they make a point of showing him have to lay there and heal from it for multiple pages?

See, I didn’t like it. I actually preferred when his healing factor was slowed down by his adamantium and Sabretooth’s or Laura’s worked faster.

Except that has never been the case. Wolverine states during Tieri's run that although Creed was stronger and faster than him he always considered his healing factor to be more powerful, even though he had to deal with the adamantium crutch slowing it down. We know at this point that Creed's healing factor was artificially accelerated by Weapon X when he got the adamantium rebonded to his skeleton to be better than Logan's. This means that for the majority of their fued Logan's healing (at least in his own opinion) was superior to Creed's, even though he had the adamantium poisoning handicap.

She-verine's healing factor has never been stated to be superior to Logan's, at least not in any comic I can ever remember reading, and it shouldn't be. It has been established that the healing factor (at least Logan's) is adaptive and grows MORE PROFICIENT over time. Logan is vastly older than X-23 and even Daken. More time to grow. She can't touch his healing feats.

Being able to come back from being burned down to a skeleton is just a bit much to me. Makes him more like Deadpool, in that he’s unkillable.

And Deadpool's healing ability comes from Wolverine, so... yeah.

I’m an 80s Wolverine guy who loved when it took him days and sometimes even weeks to fully recover from mortal injuries. Sure, he could get back in the fight, but the after effects and pain lingered for awhile. And the greater the cumulative damage the longer it took for him to recover. His healing factor could get overwhelmed.

I preferred 80's Wolverine as well, but let's be real. Even in the 80's it was RARE for any injury to take longer than a few moments to heal. I could buy him needing to take time to heal after his fight with the Silver Samurai, but that was because he gave his healing factor to a dying Rogue directly after the battle, and that was right after he was nearly poisoned to death.

Having said all that, I don’t view what happened in the Hell dimension in the last issue of Wolverine (or X-Force) as having been literal. After all, you’re in another dimension where magic is involved and your mind may view things differently than they actually happen. So I see it as he got burned up pretty bad, but all his flesh and tissue didn’t slough off his body leaving him nothing but a skeleton in actuality. There was still enough meat on the bones for him to regenerate. In other words, how he perceived it and even how we perceived it as readers was more psychological manipulation than anything. That’s what I’m telling myself anyway. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Ha.

Except he has done it on Earth multiple times by now. Also, unlike the other Knock-offs he has a complete skeleton to heal from. Bone is living organic tissue after all. His bones aren't solid adamantium. They are adamantium-beta, the perfect synthesis of indestructible metal and human bone.

I am not sure but healing factor hasn't slowed him down with adamantium. It actually made him slower(literary) than bone claw. It's adamantium poisoning that slowed his healing factor.

Again, no. He is not a human. ALL Logan's physical stats are enhanced. Having an additional 100 lbs on your back might slow YOU down. Logan is a mutant and part of his power set includes enhanced physical stats. He may not be as strong as Spider-Man, but characters who are physically peak human have been shocked by how strong/fast he is. Black Panther said as much during the original Contest of Champions when Logan was overpowering him. A normal human can get used to 100 pounds of added weight. For Wolverine an additional 100 lbs is like an additional 10 lbs. He is faster than a human, he is stronger than a human. Thanks to the adaptive nature of his healing factor his strength/speed/endurance over 50+ years have increased exponentially, meaning the adamantium is nothing to his mobility. After 50 years it wouldn't be much to a normal human if they could maintain their health and longevity the way Logan can.

[PlotDevice]

It should be the faster they heal the less durable (creed being the only exception to the rule) so from fastest healing to slowest gabby(presty much making her a cartoon/comedy character), Laura, daken, logan. With durability being the same list in reverse.

Again you are not accounting for the adaptable nature of the healing factor. Logan is the oldest, with the most time for the healing factor to develop. His should be the most powerful. Assuming he had from 1880-1965 for his healing factor to develop it's adaptive immunity, that's over 80 years of a steadily improving healing factor. Yes, it might have been lessened by the adamantium and thus increasing slower, but it definitely became more powerful while he had the metal. After all he still thought he had the superior healing ability to Creed, even with the metal.

Creed's healing should be neck and neck with Logan's. We don't know exactly who is older, but it's probably close. Wolverine has also had far more time developing an immunity to adamantium than Creed has as he has had adamantium FAR longer. Logan's healing is probably better, as Logan thought his was better with adamantium than Creed's was without. Creed has had his healing powers artificially enhanced by the Weapon X program. Again, should be close.

Daken is next. He was born in the 1940's and if his healing factor has the same adaptive immunity as Logan's it has had far more time to develop than X-23, plus she does have some adamantium, and he never has.

Gabby is a baby and should heal slightly faster than Captain America.

There were several Punishers running around in the mid 90s. IIRC, that killed the excitement of the Punisher.

This. I feel like all the people complaining that they want Logan to interact with the claw-kids aren't Wolverine fans. They just know the only way to grow their own character is to leach off him more. He's supposed to be mysterious. His connections to others are supposed to be vague and ill-defined. Daken, X-23, and Gabby can't survive on their own. Daken should have died at the end of Wolverine: Origins. X-23 should have stayed in the cartoon, and Gabby should have been Deadpool's kid, since that's what she acts like.

If that's what you mean, In my opinion that makes Logan a bit depressive all the time(which he isn't with respect to his character). Sure it has good stories with fatal attractions or with OML. But what Tieri or Claremont(early run) did with Wolverine was badass. Claremont's Wolverine didnt showed the toxic nature with adamantium. It was just peak level human healing factor for Wolverine during those times.

There is nothing PEAK-HUMAN about Wolverine's healing factor. Captain America, Black Panther, or Spider-Man have what I would call "peak human healing". They heal faster than normal humans, but even Spidey had to make a web cast when he broke his arm.

Claremont’s Wolverine had a slower healing factor than he has today.

Claremont's Wolverine survived being punched into orbit BEFORE he was ever stated to have a healing factor...

I think I’ve said this before in this thread definitely somewhere on the boards. I like Logan’s healing factor being increased because he can hang with characters like Thor, Hulk etc and not get obliterated instantly. He’s too strong at this point to be a street level like daredevil so that leaves him in a weird place if he goes that route imho. And I don’t care that scene was bad ass to me

This. Logan was not intended to ever be "street-level". His first appearance had him fight the Hulk and the Wendigo. One is the Hulk, and the other is an unkillable giant supernatural monster similar to the Hulk in power level. Once again, this was BEFORE he had a healing factor.

I love Wolverine limiting to having peak level human healing factor(like Batman with armor for example).

Batman with armor has no healing factor. If Batman want's to heal he needs a Lazarus Pit or Wonder Woman's Purple Ray.

I want him street level like Tieri's run

Did you read Tieri's run? Wolverine was basically playing with his food during the whole mob-arc. The only times he is vulnerable is when he is wearing a power inhibitor collar in the Cell, and when Weapon X uses the Leech powered satellite cannon to strip him of all his mutant powers. Having no powers is not the same as being street-level. Wolverine has not ever been a street-level hero... except when he's walking ...on the street...because he can't fly...

Logan is probably one of the few that could actually survive Xenomorph pregnancy lol.

Which he actually did, during the Brood Saga. The Brood being a blatant nod to the Alien franchise.

Bring them all down to upper tier steeet levels heros.

Even if you completely de-power Wolverine he isn't street-level. With just his adamantium claws Logan can damage things that make him way higher than street-level. If you can cut Thor's head off you are not street-level.

[Dthirds3]

two things,

first damage isn't being killed. for example in a fight a character gets an eye injured and for the rest of the fight they have to compensate for the loss of vision. logan has adamantium bones, hitting them will screw your up. for example lets say logan and laura are each fighting someone who uses low kicks, in laura's case it can damage her footing, logan the guy kicking will break his own leg because they were kicking steel. being able to be damaged helps give fight more tension. logan is so hard to bring down/have anything hinder him its hard to give him a fight where it fells like his opponent is any real threat. its honestly an advantage laura has, the fact that she can be mangled and have limbs torn off makes it easer to have her opponents seem like threats that can take her down compared to logan who over leveled almost everyone. He can tank damage so well, he doesn't need to show all the martial art and crazy skills that earned him being the best their is when he can just out last every fight in a slug fest. i want more fights where he shows hes definitely the best their is and show all of the crazy techniques and tricks learned through out his life

Second, I assigned heal factor strength based on they type of story that fits better. Gabby is a comedy character, having crazy regeneration for slapstick gags fits her better then the others, Laura is a high mobility character that relies on dogging and stealth good recover but in a slug fest she can be overwhelmed by rapid damage so high recover low durability. Logan fans love it when they see him partly healing with his metal bones showing through his skin pairs with the more hack and slash slug fest he excels at. his metal bones mean he can shrug off most hits(breaking the attackers bones in the process) negating 99% of the damage also going off old man logan rules older you get slower you heal so high durability low recovery(can we get a standard rule for heling factors so it doesn't change every other story), and daken is between logan and laura.

[Wolverine12]

two things,

first damage isn't being killed. for example in a fight a character gets an eye injured and for the rest of the fight they have to compensate for the loss of vision. logan has adamantium bones, hitting them will screw your up. for example lets say logan and laura are each fighting someone who uses low kicks, in laura's case it can damage her footing, logan the guy kicking will break his own leg because they were kicking steel. being able to be damaged helps give fight more tension. logan is so hard to bring down/have anything hinder him its hard to give him a fight where it fells like his opponent is any real threat. its honestly an advantage laura has, the fact that she can be mangled and have limbs torn off makes it easer to have her opponents seem like threats that can take her down compared to logan who over leveled almost everyone. He can tank damage so well, he doesn't need to show all the martial art and crazy skills that earned him being the best their is when he can just out last every fight in a slug fest. i want more fights where he shows hes definitely the best their is and show all of the crazy techniques and tricks learned through out his life

Second, I assigned heal factor strength based on they type of story that fits better. Gabby is a comedy character, having crazy regeneration for slapstick gags fits her better then the others, Laura is a high mobility character that relies on dogging and stealth good recover but in a slug fest she can be overwhelmed by rapid damage so high recover low durability. Logan fans love it when they see him partly healing with his metal bones showing through his skin pairs with the more hack and slash slug fest he excels at. his metal bones mean he can shrug off most hits(breaking the attackers bones in the process) negating 99% of the damage also going off old man logan rules older you get slower you heal so high durability low recovery(can we get a standard rule for heling factors so it doesn't change every other story), and daken is between logan and laura.

I agree that I would also like to see Logan use his fighting ability more often. Some of his best scenes involved him being a superior h2h combatant. First example I think of is his battle vs Cap in Origins. One of the few highlights of that series. Also his fight against Daredevil in enemy of the state. Obviously the most popular is probably his fight against Shingen.

At the same time I agree that it makes for some awesome visuals to see him tank blasts and gun fire and keep going with half his face missing. I can't help it I like both.

[Wolverine12]

What was Logan thinking in today's Marauder's? What's his end game?

[TheCape]

Step 1: Kill Saturnyne
Step 2:??????!
Step 3: Profit

[Wolverine12]

Step 1: Kill Saturnyne
Step 2:??????!
Step 3: Profit

Lol. Even if she dies that wouldn't stop Arrako from trying to invade. I hope the thinking behind the act is revealed

[Steroid]

What was Logan thinking in today's Marauder's? What's his end game?

Not a clue what Logan was thinking with that, Definitely need some answers there.

On a good note the Black White and Blood issue was awesome. Was pleasantly surprised how much I liked the Rosenberg/Cassara story. Such glorious violence befitting Logan.

[Gylfie]

Completely loved Solem as new Logan`s villain.
Tried my best to show their chemistry in 1 page

Have a nice day, everyone!

This is great!

[pkingdom]

Aw, sad to see so many hating on some of the legacy characters. Rian is garbage and I don't care about Jimmy, but I love Daken, Laura and Gabby.

[Jackraow21]

Laura I like. Gabby is funny comic relief. I despise the rest. Including Daken.

[WeaponX]

Laura I like. Gabby is funny comic relief. I despise the rest. Including Daken.

This is pretty much where I land as well. Gabby I liked right away Laura I begrudgingly like. But the rest I can’t stand. And again I miss the good ol days of it being Logan and Sabertooth as the only ones with claws and healing factors.