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  1. #121
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    So now it's been a number of years since that event, the X-office has had a massive relaunch, I think some magnanimity couldn't hurt. Why hold on to such emotions when your favorite characters are now clearly the winners in the quantity category?
    In all honesty, I think their absence from Empyre is not because editorial is scared of X-fans. It's an Avengers and FF event anyway. People only interested in the X-Men weren't gonna be reading it anyway, save for the tie-in mini-series. And the fans who were interested in it probably weren't gonna boycott the whole event just because Black Bolt and Medusa show up to help beat up some Skrulls. After everything that happened, I think there may be a sense in editorial that the characters are considered toxic. It's been a few years, but I think the TV show falling through really did a number on the franchise and Marvel's desire to actually do anything with it. It almost seems like they're embarrassed of the Inhumans at this point.

    How much the Ms. Marvel TV show deals with the Inhumans I think will be the deciding factor on whether or not they come back in the comics in a big way.

  2. #122
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Inhumans going cosmic with War of Kings onward was their peak. Working elements of that into Empyre is workable, and it could be done without Marvel appearing that it's trying too hard again.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    Some in the X-Men fanbase are claiming the Fantastic Four are racist bigots because of the new X4 crossover. I think that fanbase will attack anything that might come off as a threat to the X-Men, and that image of inhumanity was Marvel giving up on the inhumans because they know who the fanbase is. They remember AVX and Civil War.

    They should appear in a Fantastic Four book, but with Empyre coming, everyone's gonna be invested in that.
    Well yeah that's exactly what they do, the X-Men forum by this point is essentially a giant echobox of people degrading and looking down on every Marvel property that's not X-Men.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Marvel did not get rid of them. Nor Squirrel Girl, Miles Morales or Riri Williams. As much backlash they got.
    What backlash did Squirrel Girl get?
    Her book was well received by most of the people who actually read it, and most of the complaints I heard were always from people who didn't actually read the book, and just wanted to rag on the artist or just didn't like the character in general.

  4. #124
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with the Squirrel Girl backlash but I have read that she should have been written a joke character as that was her initial appeal and that pwning Doom should have been a one-off deal. But she then started defeating mega-villains like Thanos with ease.

    Going back to Inhumans, Marvel really needs to tackle the complicated relationships between all of Earth's races, by this I mean Inhumans, mutants, Eternals, Deviants, Atlanteans, and other lesser known groups. The original Illuminati functioned like a summit of leaders of these races sans Eternals and Deviants.
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  5. #125
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Inhumans going cosmic with War of Kings onward was their peak. Working elements of that into Empyre is workable, and it could be done without Marvel appearing that it's trying too hard again.
    To me War of Kings was their Krakoa moment because before that they were a hidden race that wanted to have no part in conflict and live alone in peace. With WoK, they became something they never were before and people only remember them being cosmic.

    Inhumanity fell more in line with their concept of hidden amongst humans, but WoK was like their "we're not going to take it anymore", which is where the X-Men are now.

    We need to see eternals, but they're calming everyone down with this X-Men push for the time being.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    I'm not familiar with the Squirrel Girl backlash but I have read that she should have been written a joke character as that was her initial appeal and that pwning Doom should have been a one-off deal. But she then started defeating mega-villains like Thanos with ease.

    Going back to Inhumans, Marvel really needs to tackle the complicated relationships between all of Earth's races, by this I mean Inhumans, mutants, Eternals, Deviants, Atlanteans, and other lesser known groups. The original Illuminati functioned like a summit of leaders of these races sans Eternals and Deviants.
    Could do another Uncanny/Unity Squad Avengers team. Also Marvel Now new Warriors did a good at this as well.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Can't agree on this. Positioning them in opposition to the X-Men was a death sentence. There's definitely some truth to the idea that there were too many Inhumans books put out without seeing if there was a market for them, but quality-wise, the titles themselves usually ranged from good to excellent (Ahmed's Black Bolt was simply masterful). The worst thing that would've happened was people might overlooked some of them. But the whole IVX status quo with the Terrigen mists poisoning mutants just guaranteed a large portion of the fanbase was gonna hate the Inhumans no matter what. You can't even compare it to AVX because at least there, you had two very large, popular franchises going at it. By comparison, the Inhumans have never been anywhere near as popular as the X-Men, and many of the players in the conflict were brand new characters to boot. You don't try to get people interested in new characters by having them be (indirectly as it was) responsible for something terrible happening to characters your audience already knows and loves. That's part of why so many legacy characters have a hard time catching on.

    It's unclear if TPTB at Marvel were aware of the suspicion and conspiracy theories and were directly leaning into that with IVX (the infamous poster leads me to believe they were and intentionally tried to cash in on the controversy), but regardless, it was just about the worst possible thing they could have done.
    While I can see what you mean by the franchise thing (though, as mentioned, some comparisons to Mutans was inevitable, even if the storyline could have been handled more evenly/arguably tactfully towards the end (beginning/middle were fine storyline-wise, in my opinion)), I'm personally of the belief that if you push, you push hard. Someone mentioned the current X-Men push, were there hasn't been this many X-Books probably since the Claremont days or thereabouts (my general guess to illustrate a point). I feel that's how you need to push; that's how you find your audience, and that's how you build upon it, too.

    I dunno, really, but as one of those audiences found and built upon, I'm just left feeling sad about this whole thing.

  8. #128
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    It’s not like it’s too late to do an Inhumans movie. I doubt your casual moviegoers is going to hold the tv show against them. The premise and the Marvel logo should practically sell the movie alone. You could easily make The Inhumans stand out among other properties and at the same time tie it with stuff in the universe as well.
    Maybe they'll reboot it as a Disney+ show, which would be ironic given then it would probably get the budget they should have let the TV show have to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    A level of dislike directed at the Inhumans is reasonable and acceptable. But persistent loathing, coupled with behavior like what skyvolt2000 mentioned along with glee or smugness over any lack of news regarding Inhuman participation in Marvel events, is way over the top. Sure, folks are free to react and behave as they see fit; that doesn't mean the quality of such reactions and behavior is something to be proud of.
    Some X-Fans are still holding a grudge towards Wanda for House of M. They have long memories.
    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    While I can see what you mean by the franchise thing (though, as mentioned, some comparisons to Mutans was inevitable, even if the storyline could have been handled more evenly/arguably tactfully towards the end (beginning/middle were fine storyline-wise, in my opinion)), I'm personally of the belief that if you push, you push hard. Someone mentioned the current X-Men push, were there hasn't been this many X-Books probably since the Claremont days or thereabouts (my general guess to illustrate a point). I feel that's how you need to push; that's how you find your audience, and that's how you build upon it, too.

    I dunno, really, but as one of those audiences found and built upon, I'm just left feeling sad about this whole thing.
    There's many different kinds of pushes. Sometimes you push hard, sometimes you push too hard, sometimes you push too little and don't strike while the iron is hot.

    What hurt the Inhumans compared to other franchises is that, for all their potential, they just weren't a proven property to the comics market like the X-Men are, or afforded the same luxuries due to popularity.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    A level of dislike directed at the Inhumans is reasonable and acceptable. But persistent loathing, coupled with behavior like what skyvolt2000 mentioned along with glee or smugness over any lack of news regarding Inhuman participation in Marvel events, is way over the top. Sure, folks are free to react and behave as they see fit; that doesn't mean the quality of such reactions and behavior is something to be proud of.
    I also wish to say that I agree with this.

    Predicating decisions on how the worst subsets of a fandom will or will not react does not endear to such decision making. It's not a good enough reason, certainly not for shelving the Inhumans as they are and have been, and during a time like Empyre where they really should be involved in some way(s).

  10. #130
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    While I can see what you mean by the franchise thing (though, as mentioned, some comparisons to Mutans was inevitable, even if the storyline could have been handled more evenly/arguably tactfully towards the end (beginning/middle were fine storyline-wise, in my opinion)), I'm personally of the belief that if you push, you push hard. Someone mentioned the current X-Men push, were there hasn't been this many X-Books probably since the Claremont days or thereabouts (my general guess to illustrate a point). I feel that's how you need to push; that's how you find your audience, and that's how you build upon it, too.

    I dunno, really, but as one of those audiences found and built upon, I'm just left feeling sad about this whole thing.
    Sure. But my point is that there's no reason that push had to involve actively trying to alienate and antagonize people who like one of your most popular franchises. That was a step too far and unfortunately became a massive stone around the property's neck.

  11. #131
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Sure. But my point is that there's no reason that push had to involve actively trying to alienate and antagonize people who like one of your most popular franchises. That was a step too far and unfortunately became a massive stone around the property's neck.
    The thing is they weren't directly tied to them, but people started rumors drawing conclusions that would fuel attacks.

    The X-Men fanbase was angry and they needed someone to focus their angry. Instead of thinking "Marvel is pushing all the properties they own to profit from them", like they're doing with the X-Men now, they were fed the narritive "The inhumans sole purpose is to take your X-Men away." The rumor has been so well accepted that people write it ad nauseum on here, Twitter, etc.

    That ultimately led to people seeing them as the enemy instead of Fantastic Four and Avengers characters that had been incorporated to the grander scheme of Marvel.

  12. #132
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    The thing is they weren't directly tied to them, but people started rumors drawing conclusions that would fuel attacks.

    The X-Men fanbase was angry and they needed someone to focus their angry. Instead of thinking "Marvel is pushing all the properties they own to profit from them", like they're doing with the X-Men now, they were fed the narritive "The inhumans sole purpose is to take your X-Men away." The rumor has been so well accepted that people write it ad nauseum on here, Twitter, etc.

    That ultimately led to people seeing them as the enemy instead of Fantastic Four and Avengers characters that had been incorporated to the grander scheme of Marvel.
    I don't think the idea was ever to wholly replace the X-Men with the Inhumans but when you see the embargo the X-Men were placed under for wider-media and how the media adaptions were placing Inhumans in a similar space that the X-Men used to...not that it was exactly the same, because obviously the franchises were different, but there were times where it became apparent they were using Inhumans as stand-ins for Mutants because they couldn't use them otherwise.

  13. #133
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think the idea was ever to wholly replace the X-Men with the Inhumans but when you see the embargo the X-Men were placed under for wider-media and how the media adaptions were placing Inhumans in a similar space that the X-Men used to...not that it was exactly the same, because obviously the franchises were different, but there were times where it became apparent they were using Inhumans as stand-ins for Mutants because they couldn't use them otherwise.
    The only time that I could see them play a similar role to mutants was some things in Agents of Shield, but even then was there a heavy influence on the Kree, the hidden city, and other very inhuman elements.

    A real push is what we're seeing with the X-Men now: a plethora of merchandise (from clothes to figures), strong appearances in every video game, a ton of books and event tie-ins. The only place the inhumans had a real impact was comics. Agents of Shield wasn't called Agents of Inhumans.

    If the inhumans had the same push, there would be more than just aggresively hateful tweets and magazine articles in the vain of, "Disney has the rights to the X-Men so the inhumans can go away now" or "Who cares about inhumans. No one likes them."

    I read X-Men during the inhumans push and it was average, but it wasn't bad. People didn't like Bendis, but him writing doesn't mean Marvel was trying to sink the X-Men. You could make the argument that they gave the X-Men a good writer during that time, and a bad writer (Soule) to the inhumans because they say the inhumans sucked when he was writing them.

  14. #134
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    The only time that I could see them play a similar role to mutants was some things in Agents of Shield, but even then was there a heavy influence on the Kree, the hidden city, and other very inhuman elements.

    A real push is what we're seeing with the X-Men now: a plethora of merchandise (from clothes to figures), strong appearances in every video game, a ton of books and event tie-ins. The only place the inhumans had a real impact was comics. Agents of Shield wasn't called Agents of Inhumans.

    If the inhumans had the same push, there would be more than just aggresively hateful tweets and magazine articles in the vain of, "Disney has the rights to the X-Men so the inhumans can go away now" or "Who cares about inhumans. No one likes them."

    I read X-Men during the inhumans push and it was average, but it wasn't bad. People didn't like Bendis, but him writing doesn't mean Marvel was trying to sink the X-Men. You could make the argument that they gave the X-Men a good writer during that time, and a bad writer (Soule) to the inhumans because they say the inhumans sucked when he was writing them.
    I got the same impression from the cartoons, and there was a period of time where they were more prevalent in the games then the X-Men were because of the media embargoes.

  15. #135
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    I guess the main thing if a main line Inhuman book was to be able to survive is to focus on something the Inhuman's have but others don't.

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