Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Godlike13]

To make a point that he’s not Ric anymore.

[redmax99]

Why did Dick bother introducing himself to Punchline? She knew him when he was brainwashed by Joker, so she already knows perfectly well who he is.

because he was about to wreck her whole plan, basically it was a b you thought you had me line.

[AmiMizuno]

I think it was just to be funny and to wreak her

[Badou]

Dick's whole inclusion in the Joker War story really summed up probably one of my biggest issues with the character since the New 52. He really doesn't play any kind of significant role in these bigger stories. You could cut out the whole Dick become Nightwing again plot from Joker War and nothing is lost. I'd have preferred that to be honest. It was just forced into the story because the writers/editors probably thought it would make for a good hook and tie in to bump up sales a bit more, but it was all frivolous. The Joker caring that Dick is Ric, Joker mind controlling Dick, and even in Batman #100 when Dick is wearing the Nightwing costume again it was incredibly shallow. Two years of Ric for a page of Dick bantering with Babs and another page of him confronting Punchline where the rest of the confrontation is off panel? How could anyone look at that and feel satisfied?

But I get it. Joker War wasn't a Dick story and he really didn't have any role to play in it. Which is why it could all be cut out and the Joker War story wouldn't lose a beat. So I obviously wasn't expecting anything from it, but it just highlights my big issue with how the character is used now which I've mentioned before. There are just no writers at DC that look at Nightwing and want to write him into these bigger stories where he actually has a real role to play. All he is in them is panel filler, used as bait for Bruce, or is used to prop Bruce up. That is it. Look at how Harley was used in Joker War where she had these deeper connections and storylines throughout the story. She was a main character in it. Nightwing has gotten nothing like that since the New 52. There has just been no interest in using the character that way and there is no indication that will change in the future.

The two examples where someone might counter is the Court of Owls story, but reading it Dick was pretty uninvolved in the main story as it was mostly a Bruce story, and then in Forever Evil would be the other one. I remember when FE was coming out and so many people thought it was finally when Dick was going to get his push and be more part of the DCU again, but in the end Johns didn't care about Nightwing and left the character and story to rot where the Batman editors had to figure out what to do with it. It just kind of sucks. Until the character becomes someone that writers want to involve in these bigger stories in a more comprehensive way where his involvement feels important I don't really see Nightwing getting out of the rut he has been in since the New 52.

[Restingvoice]

I need confirmation on the classic Robin and Nightwing suit in JL, like how much of it is his memory and how much of it is projected imagery, because there's also the flashback of the previous issue to consider

[Avi]

Dick's whole inclusion in the Joker War story really summed up probably one of my biggest issues with the character since the New 52. He really doesn't play any kind of significant role in these bigger stories. You could cut out the whole Dick become Nightwing again plot from Joker War and nothing is lost. I'd have preferred that to be honest. It was just forced into the story because the writers/editors probably thought it would make for a good hook and tie in to bump up sales a bit more, but it was all frivolous. The Joker caring that Dick is Ric, Joker mind controlling Dick, and even in Batman #100 when Dick is wearing the Nightwing costume again it was incredibly shallow. Two years of Ric for a page of Dick bantering with Babs and another page of him confronting Punchline where the rest of the confrontation is off panel? How could anyone look at that and feel satisfied?

But I get it. Joker War wasn't a Dick story and he really didn't have any role to play in it. Which is why it could all be cut out and the Joker War story wouldn't lose a beat. So I obviously wasn't expecting anything from it, but it just highlights my big issue with how the character is used now which I've mentioned before. There are just no writers at DC that look at Nightwing and want to write him into these bigger stories where he actually has a real role to play. All he is in them is panel filler, used as bait for Bruce, or is used to prop Bruce up. That is it. Look at how Harley was used in Joker War where she had these deeper connections and storylines throughout the story. She was a main character in it. Nightwing has gotten nothing like that since the New 52. There has just been no interest in using the character that way and there is no indication that will change in the future.

The two examples where someone might counter is the Court of Owls story, but reading it Dick was pretty uninvolved in the main story as it was mostly a Bruce story, and then in Forever Evil would be the other one. I remember when FE was coming out and so many people thought it was finally when Dick was going to get his push and be more part of the DCU again, but in the end Johns didn't care about Nightwing and left the character and story to rot where the Batman editors had to figure out what to do with it. It just kind of sucks. Until the character becomes someone that writers want to involve in these bigger stories in a more comprehensive way where his involvement feels important I don't really see Nightwing getting out of the rut he has been in since the New 52.

Honestly, I don't even know if they ever think before using Dick. Whoever thought he would make a good hook apparently didn't write him and did not mandate how to write him. I agree that his comeback in Joker War does nothing for his character. I'd argue it was no comeback at all.

Those two examples don't make me hope for the future, which is incredibly sad. Snyder likes Dick and enjoys him as a character but couldn't include him into the story that should have been Dick's anyway, Johns said he cared about Dick but it seems to me as if he really doesn't, even King wrote Dick well in Grayson just to push him into the trashcan, and I don't even mean the Ric thing, I just mean how Dick was written in general during those two Issues leading up to the headshot.

The first good event story since the New 52 with Dick might just become JL. I'd argue Titans Hunt was one too, but it wasn't truly treated as an event book. Eternal would be among them if it weren't for the way it made people hit and slap Dick for no reason. The Robin part was the strong part.

I need confirmation on the classic Robin and Nightwing suit in JL, like how much of it is his memory and how much of it is projected imagery, because there's also the flashback of the previous issue to consider

Confirmation would be great. Could be both. I'm guessing its multiverse shenanigans to some extend. The CoO storyline/memories also used both the N52 and the classic Robin suit. And it is time for it to go. Barely any artist can make it look good as well all know.

[Claude]

Dick's whole inclusion in the Joker War story really summed up probably one of my biggest issues with the character since the New 52. He really doesn't play any kind of significant role in these bigger stories. You could cut out the whole Dick become Nightwing again plot from Joker War and nothing is lost. I'd have preferred that to be honest. It was just forced into the story because the writers/editors probably thought it would make for a good hook and tie in to bump up sales a bit more, but it was all frivolous. The Joker caring that Dick is Ric, Joker mind controlling Dick, and even in Batman #100 when Dick is wearing the Nightwing costume again it was incredibly shallow. Two years of Ric for a page of Dick bantering with Babs and another page of him confronting Punchline where the rest of the confrontation is off panel? How could anyone look at that and feel satisfied?

But I get it. Joker War wasn't a Dick story and he really didn't have any role to play in it. Which is why it could all be cut out and the Joker War story wouldn't lose a beat. So I obviously wasn't expecting anything from it, but it just highlights my big issue with how the character is used now which I've mentioned before. There are just no writers at DC that look at Nightwing and want to write him into these bigger stories where he actually has a real role to play. All he is in them is panel filler, used as bait for Bruce, or is used to prop Bruce up. That is it. Look at how Harley was used in Joker War where she had these deeper connections and storylines throughout the story. She was a main character in it. Nightwing has gotten nothing like that since the New 52. There has just been no interest in using the character that way and there is no indication that will change in the future.

The two examples where someone might counter is the Court of Owls story, but reading it Dick was pretty uninvolved in the main story as it was mostly a Bruce story, and then in Forever Evil would be the other one. I remember when FE was coming out and so many people thought it was finally when Dick was going to get his push and be more part of the DCU again, but in the end Johns didn't care about Nightwing and left the character and story to rot where the Batman editors had to figure out what to do with it. It just kind of sucks. Until the character becomes someone that writers want to involve in these bigger stories in a more comprehensive way where his involvement feels important I don't really see Nightwing getting out of the rut he has been in since the New 52.

Fully agreed - and, to my mind, it ties back to the heresy I posted a little while ago... Dick loses more than he gains by having an ongoing solo series.

Court Of Owls, Joker War and - as seemed to the plan at one point - Forever Evil have Dick's involvement based around the idea that the heavy lifting will be going on in his own title, and that the main Batman or Justice League book can't *totally* tell the story of his involvement in the Big Event whilst he's having unrelated adventures in his own title. But they still want him involved because Dick is A Big Character with a close connection to Bruce.

But, with all due respect to Higgins who was doing his well-intentioned best under trying circumstances - the tie ins at best are divorced from the main thrust of the story, and markedly inferior.

It also means we lose out on other appearances - "respecting the continuity of his ongoing title" meant Bendis couldn't use Dick in his big Leviathan story, where he was hugely notable by his absence when Spyral, Helena and Tiger were all involved. It got him taken out of the Titans book, which would have been a shame if said book had been any good at all...

Maintaining a solo title pulls Dick away from being properly involved in the big, fun, DC-wide stories he otherwise would be. And no "Nightwing" title for twenty years has been worth it.

[Restingvoice]

Confirmation would be great. Could be both. I'm guessing its multiverse shenanigans to some extend. The CoO storyline/memories also used both the N52 and the classic Robin suit. And it is time for it to go. Barely any artist can make it look good as well all know.

is the one with The Court part of his real memory or the imp... wait the implanted memory was him always been with The Court right? Remind me? If it's not the implanted part then I'm gonna count it as canon.

Also, in JL the uniform is not what made Dick think that something was wrong.

We know from King's story that he was adopted as a child, we just don't know if he straight up started as Robin then or wait until 16. Those will be the hints we have that he acted as Robin with the classic costume as a child and then switch to New 52 costume when he hits 16.

[Avi]

[...]

It also means we lose out on other appearances - "respecting the continuity of his ongoing title" meant Bendis couldn't use Dick in his big Leviathan story, where he was hugely notable by his absence when Spyral, Helena and Tiger were all involved. It got him taken out of the Titans book, which would have been a shame if said book had been any good at all...

Maintaining a solo title pulls Dick away from being properly involved in the big, fun, DC-wide stories he otherwise would be. And no "Nightwing" title for twenty years has been worth it.

Idk I have a hard time believing that's the true issue here. To me it just seems like the usual editorial power play. Superman and Titans writers can't use Dick but Batman writers can force their own ideas onto the continuity of his ongoing title. Arguably they didn't want him back for City of Bane either, which just speaks of the pure incompetence the character has been handled with in especially the last two years.

is the one with The Court part of his real memory or the imp... wait the implanted memory was him always been with The Court right? Remind me? If it's not the implanted part then I'm gonna count it as canon.

Also, in JL the uniform is not what made Dick think that something was wrong.

We know from King's story that he was adopted as a child, we just don't know if he straight up started as Robin then or wait until 16. Those will be the hints we have that he acted as Robin with the classic costume as a child and then switch to New 52 costume when he hits 16.

I'm speaking about these two from NW #68 and #69:

NW 68.jpg

NW 69.jpg

I think you're onto sth with the costume switch.

[Restingvoice]

I'm speaking about these two from NW #68 and #69:

NW 68.jpg

NW 69.jpg

I think you're onto sth with the costume switch.

Okay. Good. Not the fake implanted memory then. I know I've been ignoring this run because of the boatload of inaccuracy and just plain boredom, but I'm counting this, and the current JL as confirmation that he did start young and costume switch as he got older

Timeline's still weird though, coz now it goes like this
Batman debuts
Dick adopted as a child/preteen
Robin debuts
Unspecified years passed
Dick becomes a teenager
Babsgirl debuts
He's introduced to Justice League for the first time

[yohyoi]

We are so lucky we got Nightwing back in Batman and Justice League this week. Dick being a badass and punking Punchline who was beating the rest of the Bat family.

[AmiMizuno]

Yea if the other books could use Nightwing that would make him very popular. I often wonder if they are worried Nightwing would become more popular than Batman. If used well Dick can be a well-round character. This is why if they could addon a book it should be a teamup. Where he can interact with many Dc heroes. Which could lead to him being in their books. Like Wonder Woman and Nightwing. I mean he doesn't often get time to spend with her

[Ascended]

Fully agreed - and, to my mind, it ties back to the heresy I posted a little while ago... Dick loses more than he gains by having an ongoing solo series.

I get where you're coming from, but you're putting the blame on the solo when it should be on editorial. If there was no Nightwing book, it wouldn't result in better treatment in other titles, or even extra appearances. We'd still get the same crap in stuff like Forever Evil and Joker War and whatever, the same abuse by Abnett in Titans, etc.

Not having a solo book wouldn't mean better treatment, it'd just mean that the only time we'd ever see Dick is when he's getting put through the wringer for some other franchise. And yeah, DC has treated Dick's book like crap for years but given the way DC views the character, that'd happen no matter what. If there was no Nightwing title, then instead of King saying "I wanna shoot Dick to further Bruce's story and the solo title can deal with the fallout" he'd have said "I wanna shoot Dick to further Bruce's story and the Titans book can deal with the fallout" and DC would've said "Sure, go for it!" and Abnett still would've written Dick out of the Titans because DC doesn't care what happens to Dick.

DC has this weird habit of cannibalism; feeding smaller characters to their biggest IP's in some misguided attempt to build up and improve their biggest characters by making all their other characters suck and suffer. Dick's not going to get treated better until this corporate culture at DC changes.

And with all the chaos at AT&T and WB and DC, maybe we're headed towards that revelation, or maybe we're not. Maybe the new people in charge have some basic f**king common sense and will stop the practice of using everyone for cannon fodder, and will invest in the IP's that have potential or show promise. Time will tell.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Dick's whole inclusion in the Joker War story really summed up probably one of my biggest issues with the character since the New 52. He really doesn't play any kind of significant role in these bigger stories. You could cut out the whole Dick become Nightwing again plot from Joker War and nothing is lost. I'd have preferred that to be honest. It was just forced into the story because the writers/editors probably thought it would make for a good hook and tie in to bump up sales a bit more, but it was all frivolous. The Joker caring that Dick is Ric, Joker mind controlling Dick, and even in Batman #100 when Dick is wearing the Nightwing costume again it was incredibly shallow. Two years of Ric for a page of Dick bantering with Babs and another page of him confronting Punchline where the rest of the confrontation is off panel? How could anyone look at that and feel satisfied?

I think that sums it up quite nicely. Two years of storyline only for the payoff to be squandered as a side plot in the Joker event. like I dunno, I hate playing the "slap to the face" card, but it feels like if you're going to do a storyline like this for Dick Grayson, the actual resolution for it deserves it own major storyline/Bat-Family event.

[Godlike13]

I expected nothing less, unfortunately.

But hey we got even more months of the same poop we have been getting on the book to look forward to. He’s in the Nightwing suit now though so watching him save Bea from a Gotham villain yet again will totally be different...