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  1. #2896
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    I mean, the interest was pretty much punched out of them by editorial... so there is to hoping it might get better thanks to the changes DC is going through. Dick's writers up to Ric had good ideas. Even Percy was coming around after his first arc. The second someone glimpsed that writers wanted to do something bigger with Dick it was snuffed out.
    I don't think many writers are that interested in Nightwing. So I have doubts it will get any better because I don't think Nightwing is positioned well in DC to produce good stories, but maybe I'll be wrong. Dunno. My gut tells me that come March, or whenever we get some announcements post Future State, that the Nightwing book is just going to be the same stuff. Since it has been a long time since Didio was let go and there has been zero evidence that DC looks at Nightwing any differently than they did before. I need to see some change before I believe it.

    Even a Seeley didn't want to write Nightwing at first because he had to use stuff like Bludhaven and Blockbuster. It's a problem when a writer that was already writing the character is hesitant to continue writing him because of his baggage, and a Percy I had issues with because he mostly just had a story idea about technology and slapped Nightwing on it kind of awkwardly. Like with having Dick be anti-technology and technology illiterate to try and fit him in the story he wanted to tell. Obviously I would have much preferred that story over the Ric stuff though, lol.

    I was actually thinking about Percy's run the other day because I reread the Who is Donna Troy story since I was in the mood to read an actual GOOD Dick Grayson story since it has been so long, haha. That is probably the last great Dick as Robin story ever made which is a bit sad, but in it I noticed how he used computers and even science to try and figure out Donna's mystery. There is actually a panel of him at a science station. It struck me how strange that felt because you don't see Dick like that anymore because of how diffused the Robin identity/characters are now were Dick gets pigeonholed into "the Robin that can do flips well" so him using computers or science are completely absent from his modern stories, but if you try and have him use computers or science now I bet readers would say it is out of place because they have been conditioned for so long to only read the character one way.

  2. #2897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I agree completely. Ideally, two members of the same family should not date the same person. And I do ship him with Barbara, and wouldn't want magic to be a major part of his story, anyway. And I think it'd be better for Zee not to be mired in Bats.

    Though, was she ever Batman's love interest in main-universe in continuity in the comics? I know she was in animated verse.
    I think Bruce and Zatanna have a romance in main continuity. I didn't even know they have a romance in animated verse.

  3. #2898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I don't think many writers are that interested in Nightwing. So I have doubts it will get any better because I don't think Nightwing is positioned well in DC to produce good stories, but maybe I'll be wrong. Dunno. My gut tells me that come March, or whenever we get some announcements post Future State, that the Nightwing book is just going to be the same stuff. Since it has been a long time since Didio was let go and there has been zero evidence that DC looks at Nightwing any differently than they did before. I need to see some change before I believe it.

    Even a Seeley didn't want to write Nightwing at first because he had to use stuff like Bludhaven and Blockbuster. It's a problem when a writer that was already writing the character is hesitant to continue writing him because of his baggage, and a Percy I had issues with because he mostly just had a story idea about technology and slapped Nightwing on it kind of awkwardly. Like with having Dick be anti-technology and technology illiterate to try and fit him in the story he wanted to tell. Obviously I would have much preferred that story over the Ric stuff though, lol.

    I was actually thinking about Percy's run the other day because I reread the Who is Donna Troy story since I was in the mood to read an actual GOOD Dick Grayson story since it has been so long, haha. That is probably the last great Dick as Robin story ever made which is a bit sad, but in it I noticed how he used computers and even science to try and figure out Donna's mystery. There is actually a panel of him at a science station. It struck me how strange that felt because you don't see Dick like that anymore because of how diffused the Robin identity/characters are now were Dick gets pigeonholed into "the Robin that can do flips well" so him using computers or science are completely absent from his modern stories, but if you try and have him use computers or science now I bet readers would say it is out of place because they have been conditioned for so long to only read the character one way.
    Yeah. I've remembered people saying Dick as Robin in Young Justice takes from Tim, because he was good with technology.

    Dick having a lively and laid back personality wasn't part of NTT either. He was pretty stoic and serious at that time.

  4. #2899
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Yeah using technology isn't a character trait you steal in this day an age. Unless someone decided to write Dick as Amish that is...
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  5. #2900
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    Does anyone know if Dick is slated to join the Justice League proper?

  6. #2901
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Yeah using technology isn't a character trait you steal in this day an age. Unless someone decided to write Dick as Amish that is...
    LoL, right.

  7. #2902
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    Does anyone know if Dick is slated to join the Justice League proper?
    Unlikely as long as Batman is on the team. He should either lead an adult Titans team... or maybe a secondary JLA team. But he won't even make the main JL roster as long as Bruce is there.
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  8. #2903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Unlikely as long as Batman is on the team. He should either lead an adult Titans team... or maybe a secondary JLA team. But he won't even make the main JL roster as long as Bruce is there.
    Whilst I agree, my new hot take is that next time they redo the League's origin then Dick should have been with it from the start. Batman And Robin, The Dynamic Duo.

  9. #2904
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I dont even want Nightwing on the League. That's Bruce's team, and Dick being there would likely only further cement the idea of Dick being nothing but Bat-lite.

    I actually think Dick should be one of the League's greatest critics. Not someone who is just all anti-League all the time, but someone who won't be blinded by the League's fame and status, who understands the kind of pressure they face, and will not only expect the highest possible moral/ethical standards from them but also get in the League's face when the team starts to slip.

    There aren't a ton of people who could stand in front of the Justice League and tell them they're not doing their jobs well enough, that they're letting things slide and compromising....and of the few who would actually say those things, Dick's one of the few who everyone would actually listen to.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #2905
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    You mean like how Babs did all the work to bring him back, despite being rejected and attack by him. Dick should have to do some work to repair his relationship with the only person who seemed to give a shit and tried to help. But he's still Bea obsessed. He's all focused on keeping her in his life, and resentful towards pretty much everyone else.
    Having read the issue proper it comes off as victim blaming, sorry. Dude got shot in the head, lost his memories, had his mind manipulated by the Court of Owls, and then Brainwashed into becoming Joker's henchman. I think it can be forgiven if he didn't act like himself through all of that.

    There was a better way to write that scene. Like maybe have Babs acknowledge that she know she isn't being fair but she still needs some space and hopes Dick accepts that. I think that comes off way better than punching down over something he had no control over.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  11. #2906
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    Having read the issue proper it comes off as victim blaming, sorry. Dude got shot in the head, lost his memories, had his mind manipulated by the Court of Owls, and then Brainwashed into becoming Joker's henchman. I think it can be forgiven if he didn't act like himself through all of that.

    There was a better way to write that scene. Like maybe have Babs acknowledge that she know she isn't being fair but she still needs some space and hopes Dick accepts that. I think that comes off way better than punching down over something he had no control over.
    Babs was being way too self-righteous and ungrateful to practically everyone but the domestic terrorist boyfriend in that issue in my opinion.

  12. #2907
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    What are you talking about, Ric was fine though. He wasn't a victim. Ric was just who he was, and who he still wants to be . She’s the jerk for wanting him back, but there is no accountability for him being a weak willed moron, criticizing everyone for not accepting who he was and what he wanted, while playing puppet boy to everyone and trying to kill her. Ric the perpetual victim. That didn't see himself as a victim, and rejected anyone who did. Even with his memories back Dick resents them, and pretty much anyone that isn't Bea.
    Dude tried to kill her cause him and his girlfriend were too delusional and insensitive to listen to her in the first place and guilted her off. Ya he was brainwashed, but that’s exactly my point. He was messed in the head to begin with. First Babs is criticized and guilt tripped for not accepting Ric, now she’s being mean for not giving Dick a pass for what he did as Ric. Just like she’s the bad guy for wanting him to be himself. It’s ridiculous. What, she should just continue to be subservient to Nightwing’s writers whims. They conveniently contort Babs to help the express what they want to forcefully impose on readers, but it’s Ric’s writers stupid narrative with here that you guys are defending here lol.

    That whole issue was heavy handed in execution, but I still respect the intent there. Other creators should push back against Nightwing’s current crap. What Babs tells him is actually rather meta. He’s got his memories back, yet he still wants to be like Ric. The only thing that has been recognizable about his character in his book is the suit he didn’t want to put on. And if they want to get readers interested in him again they need to do the work then with him. Prove that he’s not just a haven for bad creative, and put in the work to produce things of actual quality with him.
    From the start of Ric Babs was the audience surrogate there, and they treated the audience like poop, well now his audience surrogate is just telling him what needs to be done for him to be a viable character again. Just take what she tells him and apply the audience to it. You want an audience back in your life. Do the work. Earn their friendship. Maybe even ditch the constant reminder that is Bea. Otherwise people have other stuff to do.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-29-2020 at 04:06 PM.

  13. #2908
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Babs doesn’t do that Batman does
    What? Everything about babs is gotham and Batman, that's her life. Even her superhero id has bat in it same as batman and she lives and works in gotham. So please tell me how babs does not lock dick into gotham and doesn't get in the way of dick independence? And no "I like them together" is not an answer.

  14. #2909
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    What? Everything about babs is gotham and Batman, that's her life. Even her superhero id has bat in it same as batman and she lives and works in gotham. So please tell me how babs does not lock dick into gotham and doesn't get in the way of dick independence? And no "I like them together" is not an answer.
    Oracle and Nightwing have worked together out side of Gotham
    Collaboration with the Titans

    Only Bruce centers dick in Gotham

  15. #2910
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    I agree there’s no place for Dick on the League with Bruce these. But Bucec is hugely overexposed... let his protege step in, do everything Batman does on the team, and do it with good humor and grace. MUCH better team dynamics.

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