Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Badou]

Only 3 writers have had substantial runs with Bludhaven prior to the start of Ric. Your making it the focal point of a problem it’s not responsible for. You gonna seriously sit here a blame Bludhaven for creators like Lobdell and Jurgan’s awful garbage. The problem is beyond a setting. Be New York, Gotham, Chicago, or Bludhaven. Bludhaven is a trap perpetuated by a bigger issue.

And don’t think anyone is saying keep Dick in Bludhaven at this point. That’s not the point here. But its not Bludhaven with its foot on his throat. Supplying him with the likes of Lobdell and Jurgan’s to fill in the art with boring ideas and tired executions is attemptnto keep Nightwing all to itself. It’s just a trap city that makes it easy for DC to poop out factory like stories with whatever various creators they will afford to put on it.

My dislike of Bludhaven extends well beyond Ric though. I was making the same arguments before Ric was even a thing. About how I felt the city did not inspire creators to want to write there and bred poor creativity. That it adds negative value to trying to get writers interested in Nightwing's character and brand. So sure, those other settings and cities have the same issues Bludhaven does, and I am sick of the "city protector" derivative stories they bring about, but they don't have the same level of negative baggage with them at least.

I just do not think Bludhaven is blameless. It isn't THE reason for Nightwing's problems, but it is a reason. I think the Lobdell and Jurgens stories are worse off for having to be set there. I just don't think writers are interested in the city and if they have to write there they will change it to something they are more interested in, which speaks to fundamental issues with it too and if writers have to constantly change it to be interested in it maybe it is time to move on.

[Badou]

I mean after Final Crisis it isn't like creators were rushing to rebuild Bludhaven and write there again, right? It felt like they were all fine with moving on and trying something else because they weren't that inspired by the setting anymore. I mean Bludhaven got nuked and Dick kind of got happier in Tomasi's run from what I remember, lol.

[Aahz]

I mean after Final Crisis it isn't like creators were rushing to rebuild Bludhaven and write there again, right? It felt like they were all fine with moving on and trying something else because they weren't that inspired by the setting anymore. I mean Bludhaven got nuked and Dick kind of got happier in Tomasi's run from what I remember, lol.

There wasn't really much of point in rebuilding it, since they killed almost Dick's entire Supporting cast (the only survivers were afaik Amy Rohrbach and Bridget Clancy) and his main villain, before they nuked it.

[Godlike13]

Well Dick was suppose to die in Infinite Crisis too. Dick moved on to probably one of the worst Nightwing story prior to Ric, followed by an awful Wolfman run designed to prelude his upcoming Vigilante run. Tomasi’s run I think gets more credit because of how turds and directionless the book was in the time prior.

After they blew up Bludhaven I think there was a mini series about it, of course with no sign of Nightwing cause again he was going to die, leading to an Uncle Sam series I believe. After that there was Countdown, I want to say something with Omac, and then of course it was Darkseids base in FC. Which then Dick became Batman, and that was about it with Bludhaven. Notice how even when they brought the greater DC into Bludhaven, Dick was always missing for it.

[Aahz]

Well Dick was suppose to die in Infinite Crisis too. Dick moved on to probably one of the worst Nightwing stories prior to Ric, followed by an awful Wolfman run designed to prelude his upcoming Vigilante run.

Allready pre Infinite Crisis his series had been pretty bad, basically everything since the Story arc where Block Buster died run was crap untill Thomasi took over, and some of it was imo far worse then Ric.

[Restingvoice]

Well Dick was suppose to die in Infinite Crisis too. Dick moved on to probably one of the worst Nightwing story prior to Ric, followed by an awful Wolfman run designed to prelude his upcoming Vigilante run. Tomasi’s run I think gets more credit because of how turds and directionless the book was in the time prior.

After they blew up Bludhaven I think there was a mini series about it, of course with no sign of Nightwing cause again he was going to die, leading to an Uncle Sam series I believe. After that there was Countdown, I want to say something with Omac, and then of course it was Darkseids base in FC. Which then Dick became Batman, and that was about it with Bludhaven. Notice how even when they brought the greater DC into Bludhaven, Dick was always missing for it.

Ah yes, I was wondering about that earlier, why Nightwing didn't revisit Bludhaven, but I forgot that Nightwing was expected to die.

I don't remember who the author was but they had to scramble to fulfill both the Jason Nightwing plan Didio had AND the fact that Dick's still alive, and the result was Tentacle Jason.

[dropkickjake]

If we were going to make a Dick Grayson appreciation thread Bingo, "Badou claims that Bludhaven is irredeemable" would definitely be on it.

It has been a problem. I think that Chuck Dixon's conception of it was horrible, tbh. It was like a Hell's Kitchen knockoff and a Gotham knockoff all at the same time. Thing is, when Dixon was writing the character, I'm not sure that Dick had been written as nearly as quippy as he has been in the last 10 years. I honestly thing that Morrison's Run with Dick as the Batman who smiles and laughs has had as much bigger impact on the character than most of us realize.

But back to my point, you had Dixon write the place as a knockoff of two other books, and no one else really cared to write the place I think. The problem is when you force writers to do stuff they have no excitement about. Dick living in Bludaven isn't the problem, but editorial forcing Seely to write stories in the city was.

[Ascended]

You misunderstood my post. I'll explain it a bit more

Thanks for clarifying.

But it's not the city that matters. You're right that being in Bludhaven doesn't generate the kind of "protection" you mention, but when DC treats Dick like he's nothing more than a sidekick who happens to have his own book, the setting wouldn't matter. Like this whole Ric thing. If Dick had been living in another city, King still would've derailed the Nightwing writer's plans and had him shot in the head. The problem is how DC views Dick, and until that changes his setting doesn't matter, he'll still get pulled into stupid crap from the Bat office and thrown under buses.

Now, if the argument is that being the protector of a city is limiting Dick and forcing him into a standard superhero role he doesn't really fit, I completely agree. But in the end, these are all just symptoms of how DC handles the character. Didio would have wanted Dick dead in 06 whether he lived in Bludhaven or New York or Jump City or Metropolis. Dick would have continued getting low quality creators regardless. He would've been forced into that Bat-lite mold regardless.

If DC started treating Nightwing like a solo IP instead of a sidekick, the problems that have plagued the character end. Moving Dick to a different city will make no difference.

And hell, I just re-read some of Seeley's run, and within two trades we had solid appearances by Superman, Wally West, and Damian. The good parts of Dick's history and relationships were present, the stories themselves were solid, and Dick was living in Bludhaven. And if Dick had been living in NYC, they still would've been solid. Our issue is DC's view of the character and the shape they force him into. The setting isn't the problem, DC is.

[AmiMizuno]

What if Bludhaven was more like a growing movie/entertainment place. It fits his entertainment background

[Ascended]

If it's well done and well conceived I don't really care what the specifics are. If it feels like Nightwing and not Bat-lite, if it's fun and the craft is quality, I'm happy.

If I want to see my own specific ideas brought to the page then I better change careers and start chasing a job at DC.

[Godlike13]

Right, though right now they need to stop trying to force feed readers something they clearly do not want.

[AmiMizuno]

How so? Like the Ric story? How it's literally brought his sales down

[Ascended]

Right, though right now they need to stop trying to force feed readers something they clearly do not want.

But it's so smart and good and novel! If only readers were smart enough to see how amazing it is! History will validate DC and applaud what they're doing for the masterpiece it is!

......

that's sarcasm. Just in case it didn't translate well through text.

[Celgress]

But it's so smart and good and novel! If only readers were smart enough to see how amazing it is! History will validate DC and applaud what they're doing for the masterpiece it is!

......

that's sarcasm. Just in case it didn't translate well through text.

I love this post, great job. *THUMPS WAY UP*

[AmiMizuno]

What has been your 10 ten best moments in the comment with Dick? Also does Jim Lee have any negative feelings about Nightwing?