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  1. #2026
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But Dick is different. Shouldn't he win against Punchline?
    Well, I think he should. But I don't think DC is going to agree with me.

  2. #2027
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But Dick is different. Shouldn't he win against Punchline?
    Yes, so should have Batgirl and Harley and Batman. But skill level doesn't really matter when they're trying to introduce a new baddie.

    Also, she's powered by the ClownForce, which we all know is not only a multiversal threat but easily surpasses the SpeedForce in terms of raw wankery.

  3. #2028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Yes, so should have Batgirl and Harley and Batman. But skill level doesn't really matter when they're trying to introduce a new baddie.

    Also, she's powered by the ClownForce, which we all know is not only a multiversal threat but easily surpasses the SpeedForce in terms of raw wankery.
    harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.

  4. #2029
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmax99 View Post
    harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.
    Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.

    So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."

  5. #2030
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    @ Wingin it

    Jobbing. I know some fans like super bad ass characters and no one likes seeing a character they like lose in a fight they should win. Dick never felt like an incompetent hero or an unskilled fighter to me in the movies.

    The sparring scene to me was Damian catching a distracted Dick off guard in a sparring session as a they talked. It can happen especially when one is clearly putting in more effort and really trying like Damian was through out the scene. Dick's moves seemed effortless and smooth up that point.

    I didn't see it as jobbing nor did I ever get anything to indicate that Damian's skills were anywhere near Dicks.

    I wasn't expecting to win against Bruce and Bruce rushing out to help him in Hush I interpreted as Worry.

    Morrison's batman and Robin, Bruce's return, the mission to rescue him and Batman Inc in under 90 mins

    Damian and Dick's gradual bonding adapting what took years in the comics to develop organically It's never going to be the same as the source but I feel it was well done.

    They are loose adaptations. Storylines 'based on' the comics.

    Damian still acts like he tolerates Dick even to this day in the comics only letting his real feeling come through when Dick is either in a coma, when he fears he's about to lose him, when he's overcome with emotion extreme happiness when Dick return's from Spyral, Panicked like he was in Nightwing or about to die like in Batman and Robin. That's when the mask slips.

    The TT movies they felt like brothers to me. Even in Batman Badblood they felt like brothers though not as much as they did in the TT movies.

    As some one who doesn't really care about feats and power scaling I didn't have a problem with how his skills where portrayed. I don't even recall a couple of the examples you gave.

    I do recall when it hit me that the verse was doing key stages in his history and being really happy because now I can show my non comic reading friends why I talk about him so much and prove that he's more than Robin and or adult Robin from the live action movies [the number of arguments, explanations and correcting of facts talks I've had since i got into comics]

    Nothing is prefect and every movie has flaws but I don't think that
    Didn't know what to do with Dick's character.
    Not Caring about the character
    Treating him badly
    are true.

    Fighting skills not being accurately reflected sure though not imo
    Last edited by dietrich; 08-05-2020 at 09:33 PM.

  6. #2031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.

    So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."
    what i meant when wont hold back let jason,cass and damian beat her, with an inch of her life. let them go loose on her i'll take cass out the scenario because she doesn't kill. look at this point i'll take anybody because they want me to believe a college girl with no fighting skill can take batgirl or any train fighter, because knives can only take you so far.

  7. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    @ Wingin it

    Jobbing. I know some fans like super bad ass characters and no one likes seeing a character they like lose in a fight they should win. Dick never felt like an incompetent hero or an unskilled fighter to me in the movies.

    The sparring scene to me was Damian catching a distracted Dick off guard in a sparring session as a they talked. It can happen especially when one is clearly putting in more effort and really trying like Damian was through out the scene. Dick's moves seemed effortless and smooth up that point.

    I didn't see it as jobbing nor did I ever get anything to indicate that Damian's skills were anywhere near Dicks.

    I wasn't expecting to win against Bruce and Bruce rushing out to help him in Hush I interpreted as Worry.

    Morrison's batman and Robin, Bruce's return, the mission to rescue him and Batman Inc in under 90 mins

    Damian and Dick's gradual bonding adapting what took years in the comics to develop organically It's never going to be the same as the source but I feel it was well done.

    They are loose adaptations. Storylines 'based on' the comics.

    Damian still acts like he tolerates Dick even to this day in the comics only letting his real feeling come through when Dick is either in a coma, when he fears he's about to lose him, when he's overcome with emotion extreme happiness when Dick return's from Spyral, Panicked like he was in Nightwing or about to die like in Batman and Robin. That's when the mask slips.

    The TT movies they felt like brothers to me. Even in Batman Badblood they felt like brothers though not as much as they did in the TT movies.

    As some one who doesn't really care about feats and power scaling I didn't have a problem with how his skills where portrayed. I don't even recall a couple of the examples you gave.

    I do recall when it hit me that the verse was doing key stages in his history and being really happy because now I can show my non comic reading friends why I talk about him so much and prove that he's more than Robin and or adult Robin from the live action movies [the number of arguments, explanations and correcting of facts talks I've had since i got into comics]

    Nothing is prefect and every movie has flaws but I don't think that
    Didn't know what to do with Dick's character.
    Not Caring about the character
    Treating him badly
    are true.

    Fighting skills not being accurately reflected sure though not imo
    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I respect your opinion, but it made me frustrated personally. However, I am glad you liked these movies and it ignited more of your passion for the character.

  8. #2033
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Secret Origins (1986) #50

    The Evolution of...

    Dick Grayson


    Art: George Perez
    Last edited by K7P5V; 08-07-2020 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  9. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.

    So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."
    Harley has gymnastics and a self defense course or two and girl canít take a punch.
    But she slip past kyrptonians and Amazonís and outmaneuver batman when a writer says so.

  10. #2035
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover


  11. #2036
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Harley has gymnastics and a self defense course or two and girl can’t take a punch.
    But she slip past kyrptonians and Amazon’s and outmaneuver batman when a writer says so.
    Harley and Catwoman just offpaneled Cheshire and Merlyn like they were nothing.

  12. #2037
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover

    Holy shit I love this.

  13. #2038
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    I dont think I've seen Bermejo draw Nightwing before.

    I gotta say I prefer the more high tech versions of Nightwing's suit but Bermejo's talent just cannot be questioned, the guy is so fantastic at what he does!

    So do we have any word yet on what'll be happening with Dick post-75? Any tweets from creators or whatever? I'm assuming any news will wait until that Fandome event but I don't really do social media, outside of occasionally checking facebook.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #2039
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmax99 View Post
    harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.
    If Punchline goes against any of those Batkids you listed she will win. The character is right now being promoted. They are still in the look how awesome she is phase. They'll all take an L it's got nothing to do with their skill level more to do with establishing Punchline as a threat.

  15. #2040
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover

    What a beauty.

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