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  1. #466
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why is it that Grayson gets no love in the new 52 animated movies? Is it because it was not well written in New 52? A lot of the time he gets his butt handed to him.

  2. #467
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why is it that Grayson gets no love in the new 52 animated movies? Is it because it was not well written in New 52? A lot of the time he gets his butt handed to him.
    Because his never the lead or the star driving the ship. His role there is jobber a.k.a put over the bad guys so that Batman/Robin or whoever the lead is can win and look good for the big finally.

    If those movies were nightwing movie then he'd need to be the one put over.

  3. #468
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why is it that Grayson gets no love in the new 52 animated movies? Is it because it was not well written in New 52? A lot of the time he gets his butt handed to him.
    He gets his butt handed to him in the comics too, even in his own solo he struggles massively. So I guess that is consistent, lol.

    I mean he constantly got his ass kicked in Abnett's Titans run, gets beaten up in every Batman or JL crossover he gets put in, and pretty much has zero stories outside his own solo that give him any actual focus as a main character where he feels like a major player in the DCU. I mean the only big story he has been in where he was somewhat heavily featured since the New 52 happened was being in that Forever Evil JL event, but he spent that whole event getting beaten up by the Crime Syndicate and being chained to a chair. That is just who Dick's character has been since the New 52.
    Last edited by Badou; 02-14-2020 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #469
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Robin special creative teams named: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...r-spectacular/

    I believe these are Dick's:

    Marv Wolfman and Tom Grummett
    Chuck Dixon and Scott McDaniel
    Devin Grayson and Dan Jurgens
    Tom King & Tim Seeley and Mikel Janin
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  5. #470
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why is it that Grayson gets no love in the new 52 animated movies? Is it because it was not well written in New 52? A lot of the time he gets his butt handed to him.
    I wouldn't say he got no love at all.

    I mean, yeah, in some movies he got beat up a lot and Bad Blood didn't do his Batman justice but his characterization was pretty much always on-point and Judas Contract was peak-Nightwing in my opinion.

  6. #471
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    So in terms of Dick. How should Dick be written? In terms of fighters where is he? Should he be able to beat Damian? How great should his fighting be?

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So in terms of Dick. How should Dick be written? In terms of fighters where is he? Should he be able to beat Damian? How great should his fighting be?
    I'm honestly not sure anymore.

    As a fan, I'd like to think-- and this is taking all of Dick's history and accumulated battle experience-- that he should, at least, be able to make Slade work for a victory (though Slade would win 6 times out of 10), and at least dominate Damian in a fight. In the latter's case, I'd say Damian's more skilled, but Dick's more experienced. What tips the fight in Dick's favor is he's a grown man-- greater muscle mass & longer reach, which are relevant attributes in a fight. It's not so much that just because Damian's a kid that he'd lose, but Dick's not supposed to be some mook, either. Once Damian grows up, though, he'd kick Dick's ass so hard he'd start calling himself Ric.

    But given all we've seen so far, it's a wonder how Dick has survived as long as he has. A simple breeze could probably break his back.

    At this point, I'd be happy if Dick's fighting ability is at least as competent as Jason-- which it isn't, so there goes my mood...

    Keeping on the same subject, what sort of fighting style should Dick have?

    I'd like to think he'd be the bastard fighter. He'd use his surroundings, and he's not above throwing dirt in your eyes and sucker punch you.
    Last edited by xiyon; 02-15-2020 at 04:06 AM.
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  8. #473
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Robin special creative teams named: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...r-spectacular/

    I believe these are Dick's:

    Marv Wolfman and Tom Grummett
    Chuck Dixon and Scott McDaniel
    Devin Grayson and Dan Jurgens
    Tom King & Tim Seeley and Mikel Janin
    While I may not like a lot of what Dixon is doing nowadays, seeing him and McDaniel on (presumably) Dick Grayson again does rekindle some nostalgia for their run. Hope their reunion story is a good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So in terms of Dick. How should Dick be written? In terms of fighters where is he? Should he be able to beat Damian? How great should his fighting be?
    Certainly below the likes of Cass, Shiva, Richard Dragon (when DC remembers he exists) and Black Canary. Likely Batman as well, but just beneath him.

    I can see Dick taking most other members of the Bat family, certainly Damian. Perhaps it's just the way I've always perceived the brat (and most braggarts in general), but his bark far outreaches his bite. I would argue Dick's fighting ability is respectable, primarily because his acrobatic skill and flexibility make him particularly difficult to connect hits on when he's on his game.

    Also, never underestimate his ability to shit talk his foes into losing a bit of focus.

  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Certainly below the likes of Cass, Shiva, Richard Dragon (when DC remembers he exists) and Black Canary. Likely Batman as well, but just beneath him.
    Imo Dick and Jason should be roughly on the same level as Bruce.

    I would put him actually above Canary, she doesn't really has that many impressive showings as martial artist imo, especially in the current continuity.

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    As a fan, I'd like to think-- and this is taking all of Dick's history and accumulated battle experience-- that he should, at least, be able to make Slade work for a victory (though Slade would win 6 times out of 10),
    I think Slade is not good for comparison since he is to inconsistently written.
    If he is written on the top end of the spectrum the only Batfamily member that should have chance is Azrael (when he is also written at the top end of his spectrum).

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Certainly below the likes of Cass, Shiva, Richard Dragon (when DC remembers he exists) and Black Canary. Likely Batman as well, but just beneath him.
    Bit iffy on Canary (without her powers), but agreed with Cass & Shiva. Cass' ability is a borderline-superpower, imho, and, while maybe not possessing as much mass, depending on the portrayal, she at least has much longer reach than Damian, and a more developed musculature given her age. She'd basically read every move you make and counter it before it hits her. And that's before her skill comes into play.

    I'd think, in a straight fist fight, nobody in the Batfam could consistently beat Cass. Bruce might if he managed to land a haymaker (in my head, given how Bruce is typically portrayed, he's the one and only heavy-weight boxer in their group), but I'd think Cass would easily steer clear of any punch he throws. She might fracture a wrist pounding on Bruce for too long, though. Dude looks built like a tank...

    But if they were allowed their tools, Batman would beat all of them.

    Dick's not quite the clear top even after Cass and Bruce, but he should at least be able to hold his own and win most fights unless your name is Jason. Then things even out a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Also, never underestimate his ability to shit talk his foes into losing a bit of focus.
    Now that you've mentioned it, I'm reminded of the similarities between Spidey and Nightwing, but Spidey's treated with a lot more respect by the writers. Dick just gets jobbed.
    Last edited by xiyon; 02-15-2020 at 07:16 AM.
    Don't like? Don't read. Let your wallet talk.

    When will Logan call out Jean for putting his clone and his clone's underage clone in an X-Squad?

    CyClones! CyClones e~very~wheeeeere~!

    You'd think the WatXM staff that defected from Utopia because "think of the children!" would put a stop to The Crucible, but here we are now...

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  12. #477
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So in terms of Dick. How should Dick be written? In terms of fighters where is he? Should he be able to beat Damian? How great should his fighting be?
    Damian's never been able to beat Dick.
    Cass is at the top, after that, Dick and Bruce, however, after them, the power level fluctuates. Sometimes Damian can beat Jason and Tim, though more often he can't. Sometimes Babs is equal to Jason and Dick, sometimes they aren't.
    Steph is consistently at the lower rung though, especially since she's even newer since New 52.

    The fun part about Dick is because most of his story is canon, I can attribute a lot of his wins and loses to his development
    For example, Post Crisis Dick in the 90s have no chance against Bruce, Shiva and was beaten by Azrael
    However, Post New 52 Dick can beat Bruce, go toe to toe with Shiva for a while, defeated David Cain, and fight on equal footing with Azrael.
    So if I draw a straight timeline I can say that he did develop, but of course, there's also the usual inconsistencies. Him, and all the other characters.

  13. #478
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I’m curious with his fighting skills be better than most of the batfam. This is a big issue sometimes they write him has one of the high tier other times it’s like what is going on. Howeve, with his acrobatic skills that should always be able to help him get the upper hand.


    In terms of his best stories what are they?

  14. #479
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I’m curious with his fighting skills be better than most of the batfam. This is a big issue sometimes they write him has one of the high tier other times it’s like what is going on. Howeve, with his acrobatic skills that should always be able to help him get the upper hand.


    In terms of his best stories what are they?
    A lot of those would be in the New Teen Titans era, along with being Batman and Damian his Robin (barring certain other things from that time period).

  15. #480
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I tend to rank Dick somewhere in the top 10 fighters of the DCU, but on the lower end of that spectrum. Shiva and Cass and Dragon (when he exists) are the top 3, Dinah's on the list somewhere too, and I generally rank her only a little below the likes of Shiva and Cass. If we include superhumans then Wonder Woman is right up there too, and we can't discount Slade either. I don't think Bruce is in the top 10 at all; he's good, but not *that* good, and his victories usually come from gadgets and planning more than sheer combat prowess.

    Dick's spent most of his life fighting criminals, most of that time dealing with superhuman threats, and even before being Robin was performing aerial stunts most people couldn't dream of, and is generally regarded as the best natural athlete in DC. He doesn't rely on gadgets nearly as much as Bruce does.

    Granted, the last few years the comics haven't really reflected this level of skill. But given the pile of sh*t the last several years have been I'm willing to write off nearly everything as out of continuity due to DC's stupidity. The way Dick has been handled by the company shouldn't *count* when figuring out who Dick is or what he's capable of.

    But it really pisses me off when this guy, who's been in the game longer than most Leaguers and is among the most experienced heroes on earth, gets treated like a idiot sidekick still figuring himself out.
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