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  1. #1021
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    They could also bring back The Clock from his Golden Age Solos Stories and The Raven from his Time at Hudson University, both were iirc the biggest villains from those eras.

    Hella was also a petty cool villain from the Dixon Era.
    Seconding The Raven and MAZE. We all here rave about Grayson, so the more secret organizations, the better.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  2. #1022
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    The Court of Owls is frustrating. They have been forced into Dick's past and history so much now. They have completely tainted Haley's Circus and are such an easy go-to when writers need a quick story to get Dick to do something. In theory I don't dislike the Owls and they could be good, but how they have been used, especially in Dick's stories, is just really frustrating if they are meant to be this super important part to his character now.

    The problem starts with Snyder's Court of Owls story in his Batman run. It's probably the most defining story of the New 52 era. It was a massive success, but it was very much a Bruce and Batman story throughout. Dick's role in Snyder's Owls story was very mitigated. Bruce is who the Owls cared about. Outside of getting punched in the face by Bruce Dick didn't really do much in Snyder's story. Maybe that was because Dick had his own ongoing book with Higgins writing Dick's view of the Owls story and they figured it would be better to have all of Dick's "important" parts be contained in it, but that is also what makes it frustrating. Since Higgins Owls story doesn't come close to being what Snyder's Owls story was, especially as it was written as a supporting book to Snyder's a bit. I thought it was average at best with characters like Raya or Saiko being completely forgettable, and when Higgins' story is what is supposed to redefine Dick's entire background and history it isn't strong enough to justify such imposing changes.

    So we are left with this situation of the Owls being a core part of Dick's background now, but the defining Owls story by Snyder that is now an iconic Batman story Dick doesn't really do much in it outside of playing a small supporting role. You need a iconic or great Owls story with Dick at the center to really justify all these major changes to his history, but we never got that. Then after that Owls story there has been this weird shift with Dick now being this vital thing the Court feels like they NEED to have, but he was never that in Snyder's original story. So writers act like Dick is this super important person the Owls desperately want, but it doesn't really make sense going off the original story.

    Plus I wouldn't be surprised if over time they continue to try and add more Owls elements into Dick's character. Such as the Nightwing name coming from the Owls, but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually have it turn out the Owls are responsible for his parents' death too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    It is not like there was much of a relationship beyond Dick beeing in there in the Batman/Superman crossovers and a few team ups of him and Jimmy Olsen in World's finest in the Silverage.
    But this relation was never as close or as important as his relation with the Titans or the rest of the Batfamily.
    When Dick first used the Nightwing name the writers and creators at that time grew up on those old Batman, Robin and Superman stories. They were the original Trinity of characters, and there was also the Super Friends cartoon on at that time as well. So Robin/Dick interacting with Superman was still in the public consciousness and the Nightwing name fit better. Now that we are even more decades removed from it the old relationship or dynamic has faded even more probably to where it doesn't make sense to tie Dick's Nightwing name to Superman. It just feels like it will eventually get written out.

  3. #1023
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Can Haley's circus be saved? I mean this could have been the best way to get Dick to be his own hero while still being Nightwing. He traveling and fighting crime city to city. If the crime is to be involved in Dick's life how should it be Okay maybe some unused Villians are the best way. Has of now how many rogues does Dick have?

  4. #1024
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    we had this conversation like 4 pages ago.

  5. #1025
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Hard to say, most DC characters other them Batman don't have that many good villains, that they could afford to loose one.

    In the Batfamily there are a lot a lot off villains that fell into obscurity, and long running series like Tim Drakes Robin, Birds of Prey or Batwoman, that might not get continued anytime soon.
    Seriously, why is there no Robin solo book when both Tim and Damian have had one in the past? I hope last week's Robin anniversary special shows DC that there's a demand for it.
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  6. #1026
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Seriously, why is there no Robin solo book when both Tim and Damian have had one in the past? I hope last week's Robin anniversary special shows DC that there's a demand for it.
    Does it? A Robin Anniversary Special with 5 characters with different fan bases is not the same as a Robin solo.
    I don't see many Damian, Tim or Dick fans demanding a Robin solo with Steph.
    Last edited by dietrich; 03-28-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  7. #1027
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    It is not like there was much of a relationship beyond Dick beeing in there in the Batman/Superman crossovers and a few team ups of him and Jimmy Olsen in World's finest in the Silverage.
    But this relation was never as close or as important as his relation with the Titans or the rest of the Batfamily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Ok the point I wanted to make was that this Kryptonian connection is not something that was really an important thing in the comics when he became Nightwing, so not mentioning it is not really downplaying something from back than.
    There are a LOT of Batman and Superman team up stories throughout the Silver and Bronze ages, and Dick is in a lot of them though. Clark was pretty much an honorary uncle, and he is literally mentioned in the same sequence as Bruce and the Graysons as an influence in the very issue Dick adopts the Nightwing name. It was being acknowledged in the Titan comic it was taking place in.

    They've definitely downplayed the connection since then to the point where it's no longer relevant, but that's not really to the benefit of the character IMO. Without the Superman connection and context, Nightwing as a name is pretty much meaningless. It's just a generic name you give to a Batman-lite vigilante. Even Wolfman (in his introduction in the Judas Contract trade) said he and Perez weren't wild about the name and used it as a placeholder and couldn't come up with anything else

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Professor Pyg, Flamingo, and the Circus of Strange all started as Dick villains, even if he was wearing pointy ears, and should remain Dick villains.
    They should be his villains. And I think I've brought it up before, but since the two of them started out as villains in the possible future of Damian!Batman, I think the other villains present there or mentioned should be re-worked as present day Nightwing villains: the Weasel, Max Roboto, Jackanpas, the Sphinx, Loveless, Candyman, etc are all cool designs or catchy names/concepts that could be elaborated upon.

    So all of them plus some of Seeley's creations like Raptor, Dr. Levictus, the Gone Men and especially the limitless Fist of Cain would be a colorful and potentially cool rogue gallery who wouldn't be tied down to one location, which ideally Dick shouldn't be either.

  8. #1028
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why is Nightwing nefted in the animated universe. Someone alway has to safe him. Kori, while stronger was training them
    to fight. While Dick should have been the better option. Dick seems to one a losing streak.

  9. #1029
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Does it?
    I said I hoped it showed that, not that there was. It'll depend on reader response. People writing to them (even though there's no letters pages in DC comics nowadays), discussing it on social media, that sort of thing.
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  10. #1030
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    One of the many reasons I would like Dick to settle in Metropolis when he’s better...in addition to spending time with Clark and Lois...is to have Jimmy Olsen be his wingman during boys nights out...Jimmy has known his identity for years, and they always used to have fun back in the old Worlds Finest.

  11. #1031
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why is Nightwing nefted in the animated universe. Someone alway has to safe him. Kori, while stronger was training them
    to fight. While Dick should have been the better option. Dick seems to one a losing streak.
    Always has to be saved? Note: batman in this verse has been saved by others more times than Nightwing.
    Note: Nightwing has saved other more times than he's needed some aid. But sure whatever.

    Nightwing protects his own city. Star doesn't have that kind of responsibility so it makes sense her training the TT.

    I mean he's in Multiple comics currently [some Good]
    Murphy's got a Mini coming up
    he's in 2 animated shows and he's in a Live action TV show not for an 80 year old.
    He's doing compared to a lot of Dc Character's regardless of the complaints we express on here.

  12. #1032
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I said I hoped it showed that, not that there was. It'll depend on reader response. People writing to them (even though there's no letters pages in DC comics nowadays), discussing it on social media, that sort of thing.
    I wouldn't mind a Robin solo but I'm not holding my breathe. I enjoyed Tim and Damian titles [shame Gleason didn't get to complete his RSOB series] Just got into Dick's solo Robin adventures in Star Spangled comics and thoroughly enjoying it. Golden age comics always make me laugh even when they are serious.

  13. #1033
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    What? I didn't know he had solos that early - thought he didn't get them until the 1970s, where he starred in Batman Family and then Detective Comics, initially alongside Batgirl before both got solo features. Then in the 80s he had a run as Nightwing in Action Comics Weekly, but only got a book to himself in the 90s, after Tim's book had already launched.
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  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    What? I didn't know he had solos that early - thought he didn't get them until the 1970s, where he starred in Batman Family and then Detective Comics, initially alongside Batgirl before both got solo features. Then in the 80s he had a run as Nightwing in Action Comics Weekly, but only got a book to himself in the 90s, after Tim's book had already launched.
    Yes there was a Robin section from 1947-1953 in SSC hat made GA Robin appear in more issues than his Batman.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 03-29-2020 at 08:23 PM.

  15. #1035
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I don't want a Robin solo unless he's an independent Robin because I want there to be a few books as possible. Less problem with continuity and consistency. If he partners in Batman and lives with him, a regular appearance in Batman's book is enough. If he's a rebel, lives in a different apartment, and doesn't contact Batman often, then yeah, I want a solo, coz then it's different enough to warrant another purchase.

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