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  1. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    As much as I like the simple look of his classic blue and black costume I'd be up for a complete overhaul to it with something like this. With some kind of full face mask. The classic one is just too simple and I think translates very poorly to live action, but people would probably hate it if they change too much.
    I agree. This costume looks fantastic.

  2. #1967
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I thought the Nightwing Prime guy died in the hospital? I only skimmed a pirated copy of the issue so I don't remember it clearly though.
    The other two wouldn't have still been waiting at the hospital if he was already dead. He's just severely injured.
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  3. #1968
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What's the chance of Nightwing being treated better this time around? Also if he does go back being acrobat would this help or hurt him? Like even if it was at first no Haley's Circus. Like in Bludhaven he was hired at one of the entertainment strips. Which he was looking at due to a crime situation.

  4. #1969
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The other two wouldn't have still been waiting at the hospital if he was already dead. He's just severely injured.
    In the issue the girl and black Nightwing cops were at the hospital meeting the Nightwing Prime guy after he got injured by the Joker. While he was talking to them explaining what happened it felt like he trailed off and passed out or something and I assumed he flatlined I guess.

  5. #1970
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What's the chance of Nightwing being treated better this time around?
    We'll know in a few months.

    Jim Lee has said he'll protect the character, and I feel like so far he's been good to his word. We haven't gotten much, but Lee hasn't been in his position long and the pandemic screwed everything up. But we're getting Dick in a League arc, Snyder's got his project in the works and I see no reason for it not to be approved, Dick will soon be back as Nightwing, and the solo isn't cancelled yet. And as I learned the other day, we've got a new editor too.

    But time will tell. Dick might get treated poorly in the JL arc, Snyder's story might end up being more Batman than Dick Grayson, and the solo might continue getting bottom-of-the-barrel creative teams. The new editor might be just as bad as the last one. And Dick becoming Nightwing again was likely always the endgame of the Ric saga, so it was probably gonna happen eventually whether Lee was in charge or not.

    At this point, we're still dealing with Didio's DC. The stories that are still being told and/or wrapped up are stories he approved and helped set in motion, the direction of the characters are still mostly pointed where he wanted them. Or, at best, we're in a holding pattern where creators are just treading water, waiting for Jim Lee and everyone else to adjust and get their new plans (whatever they are) rolling.

    I figure we'll probably start hearing announcements this coming month; Metal 2 is supposed to wrap this fall right? We're all expecting a relaunch to follow that. August seems like a good time for DC to start laying out their new plans.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #1971
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?

  7. #1972
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?
    It has good parts and cringe parts. It should also be noted, it is far darker than the comics at the time. What's more, a number of the side characters, especially in season 1, seem more interesting than the main characters. Hawk & Dove, Doom Patrol, Donna, and Jason in season 1 overshadow the main characters for the most part.

    So, if you don't mind an overall darker take on the OG Titans and the New Teen Titans, take a look at it.

  8. #1973
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?
    I could be wrong but I don't think Didio had much pull with the animation guys. Pretty sure those are completely difference facets of DC and Didio only had real pull with the publishing. Isn't it Harras who would be in charge of DC's animation? But I could be wrong.

    I think it might be more of a corporate culture thing. Most businesses end up reflecting the values of management, Didio had a hate-on for Dick (and the NTT) for twenty years, and we can see that Dick's treatment slowly degraded over that time, getting lower quality creators, less emphasis on his solo development, smaller roles in Events, and the eventual devolution to "adult sidekick" status.

    I doubt Didio looked over every issue and every story arc; that likely wasn't his job, but his opinions on Dick would've influenced everyone else; want to get in good with the boss and ensure you keep getting books to write? Try to ignore Nightwing. Want that promotion from junior editor to full editor? Try to ignore Nightwing. Employees want the boss to be happy and don't want to be seen as wasting company time. So ignore the characters you know the boss doesn't believe in, and focus on what will make him happy.

    If Harras doesn't have sway over the animation then it's likely a matter of the animators looking at the source material and going from that; and what they'd see is that Nightwing isn't terribly important or capable. For years, we've been getting adaptations of New52 stories; not much to work with there as far as Nightwing goes. And I generally don't watch DC cartoons but Dick seems to have done okay, for a guy who isn't a League mainstay. Not great, but what I've seen didn't really ever piss me off like the comics do.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-29-2020 at 09:15 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #1974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I could be wrong but I don't think Didio had much pull with the animation guys. Pretty sure those are completely difference facets of DC and Didio only had real pull with the publishing. Isn't it Harras who would be in charge of DC's animation? But I could be wrong.

    I think it might be more of a corporate culture thing. Most businesses end up reflecting the values of management, Didio had a hate-on for Dick (and the NTT) for twenty years, and we can see that Dick's treatment slowly degraded over that time, getting lower quality creators, less emphasis on his solo development, smaller roles in Events, and the eventual devolution to "adult sidekick" status.

    I doubt Didio looked over every issue and every story arc; that likely wasn't his job, but his opinions on Dick would've influenced everyone else; want to get in good with the boss and ensure you keep getting books to write? Try to ignore Nightwing. Want that promotion from junior editor to full editor? Try to ignore Nightwing. Employees want the boss to be happy and don't want to be seen as wasting company time. So ignore the characters you know the boss doesn't believe in, and focus on what will make him happy.

    If Harras doesn't have sway over the animation then it's likely a matter of the animators looking at the source material and going from that; and what they'd see is that Nightwing isn't terribly important or capable. For years, we've been getting adaptations of New52 stories; not much to work with there as far as Nightwing goes. And I generally don't watch DC cartoons but Dick seems to have done okay, for a guy who isn't a League mainstay. Not great, but what I've seen didn't really ever piss me off like the comics do.
    jim lee was mostly involved in the animation side of things before dan quit.

  10. #1975
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Well, if Snyder's stepping away from DC I dunno that that bodes well for any chances of us getting that Nightwing book from him.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  11. #1976
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Snyder is still doing DC books, just not big events anymore.

  12. #1977
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Well. Dick was treated better in other movies just not the new 52 movies. Maybe one reason is simply that they didn't know how to use Dick or didn't care. They probably knew they were going to reboot anyway. Hope he will be treated better.

    I wonder sometimes in order to make a better character we have to take them out of the normal. What has Nightwing not done?

  13. #1978
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Well, if Snyder's stepping away from DC I dunno that that bodes well for any chances of us getting that Nightwing book from him.
    Wasn't that meant to be Black Label and not the ongoing anyway?
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  14. #1979
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Word is Snyder's Grayson book would be out of continuity, a kind of "what if Dick remained Batman?" kinda thing, but I'm not sure if anything was officially said or not. I guess in theory it could be in continuity? A "untold tales of Dick's time as Batman" maybe?

    I expect that book to still happen; Snyder might be backing off but he's still doing DC books, he's still doing superheroes.....he just doesn't want to the "The Guy" at DC who does the big Events and has all his time taken up writing the big names. This Grayson project is something he wanted to do himself, so I expect he'll still make that happen. Though if he switches gears to focus on his own stuff the Grayson book might end up not happening for a while?

    So if Lee was involved in the animation stuff....someone more familiar with the cartoons will have to chime in about Dick's treatment there. Ami says Dick was treated fairly well in the non-52 adaptations but I'm not a cartoon guy and don't know enough to say how Dick was treated overall.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Word is Snyder's Grayson book would be out of continuity, a kind of "what if Dick remained Batman?" kinda thing, but I'm not sure if anything was officially said or not. I guess in theory it could be in continuity? A "untold tales of Dick's time as Batman" maybe?

    I expect that book to still happen; Snyder might be backing off but he's still doing DC books, he's still doing superheroes.....he just doesn't want to the "The Guy" at DC who does the big Events and has all his time taken up writing the big names. This Grayson project is something he wanted to do himself, so I expect he'll still make that happen. Though if he switches gears to focus on his own stuff the Grayson book might end up not happening for a while?

    So if Lee was involved in the animation stuff....someone more familiar with the cartoons will have to chime in about Dick's treatment there. Ami says Dick was treated fairly well in the non-52 adaptations but I'm not a cartoon guy and don't know enough to say how Dick was treated overall.
    If the story of Snyder is about Dick as Batman, I think that would only contribute to the idea that Nightwing is a lesser identity. And that big names only write Dick when he is Batman.

    Although I like Dick as Batman, so maybe I shouldn't complain.

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