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  1. #1006
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    No, the Court has become their lazy go to. They play with the idea too much with no consistency or awareness of the times before.

  2. #1007
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    I feel like he should keep Cobb as one of his villains, but not the whole court of owls since it's very overused now of days.

    In this topic, which villains you guys think his gallery should have?

    Cobb is a no-brainer to me. Raptor should come back, he is the best one Dick had in a while. He should take Lady Vic back. I would like a new take on Shrike too. Maaybe Saiko? He was a little lame at the end though.

    Those are good villains for him to fight, but i can't think of any good cerebral ones and i don't really care for Blockbuster.. By the end of Black Mirror i wanted James Jr. as his "Joker" but right now he is a Batgirl villain. Maybe Judge? Prankster was lame too. Higgins was not good at creating villains.

    Come to think of it, Minos could be a choice.
    Last edited by Drako; 03-28-2020 at 06:31 AM.

  3. #1008
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Maybe lesser known villains. Because I don’t want a Batman villain becoming a Nightwing Villain. I do feel Blockbuster could stillbr one. Maybe Deathstroke can be one. When you mean Joker are you seeing his archenemy?

  4. #1009
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Maybe lesser known villains. Because I don’t want a Batman villain becoming a Nightwing Villain. I do feel Blockbuster could stillbr one. Maybe Deathstroke can be one. When you mean Joker are you seeing his archenemy?
    Yes, as archenemy. In Black Mirror James Jr was depicted kinda like a the reverse Dick Grayson, so to me would be cool to have him in the gallery, but he became a villain for Barbara, which make sense for the character as well.

  5. #1010
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Yes, as archenemy. In Black Mirror James Jr was depicted kinda like a the reverse Dick Grayson, so to me would be cool to have him in the gallery, but he became a villain for Barbara, which make sense for the character as well.
    Need the fact that Gordon wished his first-born to be a son in Year One to be played up, just to reflect the irony of how James Jr. and Barbara turned out respectively.

    As for Dick, Jason would have been the perfect inverse for him but DC wanted him to become an anti-hero.

  6. #1011
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Cobb should definitely be a major rogue. And the Court should stick around too. They're overused and poorly used, so they should be put on the shelf for a little while, but the Court of Owls is a good concept and their connections to Dick aren't going anywhere. So give them a break, but yes they should be part of the rogues gallery.

    Dixon gave us plenty of villains worth keeping; Blockbuster of course, Lady Vic, Brutale, Double Dare, Soames, etc.

    Raptor definitely is worth keeping.

    Professor Pyg, Flamingo, and the Circus of Strange all started as Dick villains, even if he was wearing pointy ears, and should remain Dick villains.

    I'd take the HIVE from the Titans gallery and give them to Dick. I feel like one good way to show those heroes have grown and improved since the NTT era is to split the NTT rogues among the individual heroes; HIVE for Nightwing, the Fearsome Five for Cyborg, Cult of Blood for Raven, etc.
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  7. #1012
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Flamingo would be cool. He's not used very often and appeared "recently" in the Nightwing book.

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The Kryptonian relationship to the Nightwing name is basically irrelevant to Dick's character these days. It is one of those things I think fans put far more weight on than the actual creators do. Dick basically has no relationship with Superman or the Superman family anymore outside of maybe Dick and Clark crossing paths once every 5 or so years in a story.
    It is not like there was much of a relationship beyond Dick beeing in there in the Batman/Superman crossovers and a few team ups of him and Jimmy Olsen in World's finest in the Silverage.
    But this relation was never as close or as important as his relation with the Titans or the rest of the Batfamily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    There has been a consistent push to try and erase the connection to the Kryptonian legend from what I have seen.
    Asfar as I know connection was anyway only mentioned in Nightwing: Year One, and that was published roughly 15-20 years after he became Nightwing.

  9. #1014
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Yeah, over the years Dick has had plenty of pretty decent rogues to choose from.

    Crazy Quilt- the episode of him The Brave in the Bold was fantastic. You've got this super campy art collector/thief that goes blind from an encounter with Dick while he was Robin. He's got the Color Guard, these beefy shirtless dudes all painted mono-chromatically. This vibe is so trippy and campy and weird. I'm about it.

    Pyg- Man. I can't say enough about Pyg. This guy should be Dicks joker-level threat. He could also be Dick's Dark Mirror in place of James Jr. Dick, whether he's in fingerstipes, pointy ears, or pixie books, is about inspiring hope in people. He is a showman. He was mentored by Batman and Superman alike. He's about inspiring hope, not fear. His "performance" is aimed at making people believe the best in humanity, the best in themselves. Pyg is a performer too. With his circus of the strange, he says "I want to be sick in front of everyone." Dick is the well adjusted loving older brother who encourages his proteges to be themselves rather than miniature versions of himself; Pyg creates dozens of identical dollotrons. Bonus- Pygs history with Spyral, with the psychotropic drugs unhinging his brain!

    Cobb is a good villain for him, he's just been painfully misused of late. The Owls (whether Court or Parliament) are absolutely worth keeping around; they just need a good long break.

    Raptor was brilliant.

    I think Deathstroke has surpassed the realm of being in anyone rogues gallery, but he should be a rival of sorts. He should be this anti-mentor from Dick's past. They should be in conflict from time to time.

    Red Hood was one of the major villains for the Batman Reborn era, but as someone said DC wants him to be an anti-hero now (almost just a hero IMO). Regardless, Jason and Dick should be heated rivals, not loving brothers. Perhaps they aren't enemies, but they despise and distrust each other.

    There are a handful of villains from the Dixon days that are worth hanging on to. Lady Vic and Double Dare top that list for me. Electrocutioner and Brutale a rung beneath them in my mind but worth keeping; they are like spiderman villains in the best way possible. I was never convinced with Shrike, but he may be worth revisiting and breathing some new life into, particularly because I think his back story involves some undercover/spy stuff form a young Dick Grayson.

    Blockbuster is too big not to keep, but I'd want him to be more of a member of the rouges gallery than the Kingpin.

    Dudley Soames worked better as a crooked cop than as Torque. "The Inspector" is worth keeping in a way Torque never was.

    And, I almost forgot; my favorite idea for resurrecting concepts for a great Dick Grayson Villain- combine the Saiko and Raya concepts. Bring Raya back from the dead, but Talon-ized, and she blames Dick Grayson for everything! I felt like she was the most well developed supporting character from the Court of Owls build up.

  10. #1015
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I still would like to see Tiger as a Nightwing villain. I'm almost 100% certain that the script of Better Than Batman was adapted from a Grayson storyline with Tiger, but there's still so much potential there.

    Superficially they both fulfill the partner/mentor role whose methods challenge Dick's beliefs. Both are anti-capitalist, anti-American imperialism and see Dick as blindly ignorant to his privileges. Both use more violent methods that could challenge Batman's strict moral principles. Etc.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 03-28-2020 at 10:51 AM.
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  11. #1016
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I'm curious with how big DC is do you guys think there are villains outside the Batfam that would work? Characters that aren't used much?

  12. #1017
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    They could also bring back The Clock from his Golden Age Solos Stories and The Raven from his Time at Hudson University, both were iirc the biggest villains from those eras.

    Hella was also a petty cool villain from the Dixon Era.
    Last edited by Aahz; 03-28-2020 at 11:00 AM.

  13. #1018
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Asfar as I know connection was anyway only mentioned in Nightwing: Year One, and that was published roughly 15-20 years after he became Nightwing.
    It's still mentioned in New 52 and Rebirth, but only once each.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I'm curious about how big DC is do you guys think there are villains outside the Batfam that would work? Characters that aren't used much?
    In New 52 they're exchanging villains. They gave Superman villain Prankster to Nightwing, Nightwing villain Lady Vic to Batwing, and I don't remember what else.

    Of course, Deathstroke has been traded with everyone long before that.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 03-28-2020 at 11:06 AM.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I'm curious with how big DC is do you guys think there are villains outside the Batfam that would work? Characters that aren't used much?
    Hard to say, most DC characters other them Batman don't have that many good villains, that they could afford to loose one.

    In the Batfamily there are a lot a lot off villains that fell into obscurity, and long running series like Tim Drakes Robin, Birds of Prey or Batwoman, that might not get continued anytime soon.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It's still mentioned in New 52 and Rebirth, but only once each.
    Ok the point I wanted to make was that this Kryptonian connection is not something that was really an important thing in the comics when he became Nightwing, so not mentioning it is not really downplaying something from back than.

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