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  1. #3031
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Since Teen Titans takes place afterwards and he's got different gear there, he seems to only have the militant style gear for a little while. Maybe it just fits the job that needs doing in Arkham at that time.
    That's my takeaway too. Seems to be a "right suit for the right job" situation.

    Now, don't get me wrong, the suit *does* look fairly generic in a "paramilitary 90's hero" kind of way and something like Dan Mora's Power Rangers/Gotham update would've been far more welcome (best redesign I've seen for Dick, if only it didn't have the helmet). But I don't find the suit to be *bad* or anything, just a little basic and not really in line with Dick's typical visual MO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't see the problem with just ending the solo and relaunching it with a new (better) writer. It's the same deal with Titans at this point.
    This. There's no problem with the book that can't be solved with a better writer and better editorial viewpoint. Wanting to get Dick away from Gotham, Bruce, and the Bat editorial office is all well and good and I support that, but the Titans are maybe the only IP that gets abused worse than Dick so it's largely a "six of one, half dozen of the other" situation. In either case, you'd need better talent and editors in charge to get a Dick story worth reading, and between the two I'd rather have the solo.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #3032
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    They'll use the last series as an order basis unless there is something in-between. They can change the writer and editorial, but they first still have to convince the general audience to give it chance in the first place. To ignore how his book is currently selling and the general perception his current series has created, and brushing it off as oh well a new writer will fix it, is naive to say the least. And just not fair expectations for whomever eventually takes over. The objective with Titans would be to be that in-between, and try to establish a new sales basis between his previous series end and his new series.

    A new writer is not going to be nearly enough anymore to get him out of his sales hole. They need to come up with an actual re marketing campaign. Think like with Batwoman during Rebirth. Now that didn't exactly pay off with her, but thats the idea. They pushed this idea of her as the 3rd pillar of the Bat world, then used 'Tec to launch her next series. Rather than just relaunch it cold. With Nightwing i suggest trying it with Titans instead of something Batman. Cause solo Nightwing has already been so entrenched with Batman, and Titans has more going on with Dick outside of comics. You guys seem to be misconstruing my point is that Titans will creatively save the character. Thats not really the idea here.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 11-26-2020 at 04:36 AM.

  3. #3033
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    They'll use the last series as an order basis unless there is something in-between. They can change the writer and editorial, but they first still have to convince the general audience to give it chance. To ignore how the book is selling and the genral perception his current series has created, and brush it off as oh well a new writer will fix it, is naive. The objective with Titans would be to be that in-between, and establish a new sales basis between his previous series end and his new series.
    Well, a new writer, direction, and jumping on point is about the best one can hope for at this point.

    It's not like the Titans are really in a much better position and that book has to service more than just Dick.

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  5. #3035
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't see the problem with just ending the solo and relaunching it with a new (better) writer. It's the same deal with Titans at this point.
    Pretty sure that's what's in the cards. I think they're just keeping the book going right now because it still generates a profit. No other reason to keep it going during Ric either, frankly. The relaunch is coming. It's a holding pattern right now.

    I don't even want to hold this run against Jurgens. He couldn't make lemonade out of the lemons given but there's a very short list of people who could and I won't begrudge the guy for taking a paycheck.

    Wouldn't mind seeing Zdarsky, Fraction, Russell or Bendis (if he can get those goddamn poop jokes under control) taking a crack at Nightwing. Or some new blood, though right now Dick probably needs star power to help him after a two year slump.

  6. #3036
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    It’d be a real coup to get Zdarsky and Molina on this book.

  7. #3037
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Why do crush and red arrow look the same if it’s the future?
    Good question. If it's seven years later they should look visibly older, especially Emiko.
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  8. #3038
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, a new writer, direction, and jumping on point is about the best one can hope for at this point.

    It's not like the Titans are really in a much better position and that book has to service more than just Dick.
    I know this sounds crazy but maybe just maybe dc can do something new with nightwing? Maybe a new teambook with a new roster? Or maybe instead of a solo book we get a mimi series as setup for a new direction? Just a thought.

    Speaking of solo's, with Jason's new status quo red hood will now be in Gotham, red hood in Gotham and nightwing in bludhaven is very redundant. They're almost the as book at that point and DC is cutting books I don't see both being around at the same time with the same status quo.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 11-26-2020 at 06:29 AM.

  9. #3039
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I know this sounds crazy but maybe just maybe dc can do something new with nightwing? Maybe a new teambook with a new roster? Or maybe instead of a solo book we get a mimi series as setup for a new direction? Just a thought.

    Speaking of solo's, with Jason's new status quo red hood will now be in Gotham, red hood in Gotham and nightwing in bludhaven is very redundant. They're almost the as book at that point and DC is cutting books I don't see both being around at the same time with the same status quo.
    Well, Dick and Jason are different characters who do different stuff though...

  10. #3040
    Incredible Member Avi's Avatar
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    If there won't be at least a new writer in March (if there even is an on-going), it's over. A renumbering would be better, but it doesn't look as if that'll happen. I can see the Titans kicking things off for Nightwing if DC starts new titles in different months as they did during Rebirth, but, just like others, I don't see Titans as a title that will set the foundation for on-goings. It should, but it doesn't.

    Speaking about cities, I wouldn't mind seeing Dick operate out of New York again, especially if DC wants him closer to the Titans. Even if Vegas-like Blüdhaven is still the better choice if Dick has to be tied to a city.

    Did Higgins ever say why he chose Chicago in his run?

  11. #3041
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    They'll use the last series as an order basis unless there is something in-between. They can change the writer and editorial, but they first still have to convince the general audience to give it chance in the first place.
    You'd have a valid argument if the Titans were in a better position. They're not. The book doesn't tend to sell better than Nightwing and is far, far less consistent in its sales numbers. All the things you'd have to do to repair Dick's solo sales and reputation, you'd have to do to repair the Titans' sales and reputation. And with the Titans you don't have the benefit of that high sales floor that has kept Nightwing alive through the Ric era, nor do you have the opportunity to build a strong foundation for the character as a solo IP. I'm down with DC actually giving a damn about the Titans and trying to make them sell properly again but as far as Dick goes, there's no benefit to putting him there at the expense of his solo.

    At this point DC has done so much damage to both brands there *is* no quick, easy fix. They've spent years putting in halfassed effort (when they're not sacrificing both brands to the larger franchises of the Bat and JLA) and that has trained readers who aren't already die-hard fans to largely ignore those books, regardless of what the books are actually doing. A quality creator and new editor isn't the solution, it's merely the first step along the path; true salvation for these brands will require long-term effort, investment, and consistently strong creators.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #3042
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, Dick and Jason are different characters who do different stuff though...
    but that's not how DC looks at books. What DC will is that one book is about a former robin 20s street vigilante in an urban gritty city and the other is a former Robin 20s street vigilante in urban gritty city.

    Dick and Jason personality being different doesn't matter. Dick and Bruce, dick and tim personality are different, didn't stop DC form see nightwing as redundant with batman and Robin and wanting to kill him off.

    DC looks at role and niches not personalities. Higgins is from Chicago.

  13. #3043
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You'd have a valid argument if the Titans were in a better position. They're not. The book doesn't tend to sell better than Nightwing and is far, far less consistent in its sales numbers. All the things you'd have to do to repair Dick's solo sales and reputation, you'd have to do to repair the Titans' sales and reputation. And with the Titans you don't have the benefit of that high sales floor that has kept Nightwing alive through the Ric era, nor do you have the opportunity to build a strong foundation for the character as a solo IP. I'm down with DC actually giving a damn about the Titans and trying to make them sell properly again but as far as Dick goes, there's no benefit to putting him there at the expense of his solo.

    At this point DC has done so much damage to both brands there *is* no quick, easy fix. They've spent years putting in halfassed effort (when they're not sacrificing both brands to the larger franchises of the Bat and JLA) and that has trained readers who aren't already die-hard fans to largely ignore those books, regardless of what the books are actually doing. A quality creator and new editor isn't the solution, it's merely the first step along the path; true salvation for these brands will require long-term effort, investment, and consistently strong creators.
    Titans has time between series, and stuff happening outside of comics. 6-12 issues of a new Titans series would still be a better sales basis then current Nightwing. Apathy and creator favoritism is what kept Nightwing alive through Ric. It’s sales floor is now trash. Unless he’s sucking on Batman’s tit we are talking sub 15k now, well out of the top 100.
    Titans has time away, and allows for the opportunity to rest and then introduce a different foundation for the character as a solo IP. The point is they can’t just slap on a new creator and think that is going do anything at this point. They need to remarket with Nightwing now. So maybe try re marketing with the Titans then simply just relaunching and naively thinking that’s all that’s required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    Did Higgins ever say why he chose Chicago in his run?
    He’s from Chicago.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 11-26-2020 at 11:41 AM.

  14. #3044
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I know this sounds crazy but maybe just maybe dc can do something new with nightwing? Maybe a new teambook with a new roster? Or maybe instead of a solo book we get a mimi series as setup for a new direction? Just a thought.

    Speaking of solo's, with Jason's new status quo red hood will now be in Gotham, red hood in Gotham and nightwing in bludhaven is very redundant. They're almost the as book at that point and DC is cutting books I don't see both being around at the same time with the same status quo.
    It’s to early to say if Jason’s back in Gotham full time or not. The current story is just a 2 issue filler just to get it to December.

  15. #3045
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Titans has time between series, and stuff happening outside of comics. 6-12 issues of a new Titans series would still be a better sales basis then current Nightwing. Apathy and creator favoritism is what kept Nightwing alive through Ric. It’s sales floor is now trash. Unless he’s sucking on Batman’s tit we are talking sub 15k now, well out of the top 100.
    Titans has time away, and allows for the opportunity to rest and then introduce a different foundation for the character as a solo IP. The point is they can’t just slap on a new creator and think that is going do anything at this point. They need to remarket with Nightwing now. So maybe try re marketing with the Titans then simply just relaunching and naively thinking that’s all that’s required.
    I guess it's been about a year since Abnett's Titans ended? It doesn't feel that long ago. I think a relaunch doing well would be heavily reliant on the creative team and roster and whether we get a Teen Titans team alongside them.

    Although I don't see a Titans writer looking at the title as a Dick Grayson vehicle.

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