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  1. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    What is your fear?
    My fear is that DC put Dick exclusively in a Titans comic, while Dick's solo is canceled.

    However, this will just happen if DC really wants to push Titans comic.

  2. #2057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    My fear is that DC put Dick exclusively in a Titans comic, while Dick's solo is canceled.

    However, this will just happen if DC really wants to push Titans comic.
    I doubt it; Red Hood and Batgirl aren't being canceled, and they sell about the same. We heard Jurgens also talk about a plan in the works after he leaves the title in a more recent interview. I won't deny that two years of Ric have pushed away all but the most die-hard fans of his on his solo.

    I'm sure we'll here more from DCDOME.

    I do see where you're coming from. Back in the day, Dick was firmly a Titans character and the Bat-office had little control over what was done with him. I can't see the same thing happening now, though, with almost everything being tangentially related to the Bat these days.
    Last edited by Wingin' It; 08-10-2020 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #2058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    I doubt it; Red Hood and Batgirl aren't being canceled, and they sell about the same. We heard Jurgens also talk about a plan in the works after he leaves the title in a more recent interview. I won't deny that two years of Ric have pushed away all but the most die-hard fans of his on his solo.

    I'm sure we'll here more from DCDOME.

    I do see where you're coming from. Back in the day, Dick was firmly a Titans character and the Bat-office had little control over what was done with him. I can't see the same thing happening now, though, with almost everything being tangentially related to the Bat these days.
    That's why I say it will just happen if DC really want to push Titans.

    They wouldn't cancel Nightwing due to lack of popularity, but because they want to push Titans sales. This will force Nightwing fans to buy Titans if they want read about Nightwing.

    Technically, DC did this with Tim in New52 (when Tim in his Red Robin solo has good sales).

    It is just a fear. So, I really hope this doesn't happen.


    PS: Batgirl is canceled in October. Although the comic may return in a general relaunch.

  4. #2059
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Hot take, I want Nightwing cancelled. Gets him out of the Bat Office and would allow a Titans writer to have freedom with the character which in turn means more focus.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 08-10-2020 at 09:07 AM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  5. #2060
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I read that some Titans appear along Nightwing in that preview for Batman #100 (I didn't notice).

    I just hope the new direction for Nightwing isn't what I fear.
    https://64.media.tumblr.com/a682ec7d...62313d6af9.jpg

    I don't see any Titans here either. I got Oracle, Signal, Batwoman, Orphan, Robin and Nightwing and someone in a cape fighting alongside Orphan.

    But the solicitation for Nightwing #75 says his Teen Titans friends will help restore his memories but it also says Alfred will help so we might still not have anyone outside the Batfamily actually show up to help personally.

  6. #2061
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Hot take, I want Nightwing cancelled. Gets him out of the Bat Office and would allow a Titans writer to have freedom with the character which in turn means more focus.

    Yeah, I wouldn't hate this - but it would need to be a *really* good Titans run.

    Did y'all see Alex Ross put out some Starfire art tagged #Breakingnews, and then deleted it? It's possible DC are positioning to get behind Titans in a big way.

  7. #2062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Making Barbara Oracle again would make her a "more important" supporting character but guarantee that she loses any long term title. But you could also just make Batgirl have a more prominent presence outside of her book and not hamstring her writers.
    Well, there's problems with Batgirl/Oracle.

    As Batgirl, Babs doesn't matter. She's just another vigilante in a city over crowded with vigilantes. Babs' role in big stories and Events has dropped off to nothing and in-universe Babs is a total non-factor (she wasn't even part of the 'Tec era Gotham Knights). And I don't believe her sales are great either; the Burnside run seemed to sell well enough but that seems to be an exception, not the rule.

    But "classic" Oracle is harder to write a monthly series around. Comics from indie publishers can get away from the typical superhero trappings, but a classic Oracle title would break the superhero mold and fans don't seem to want that kind of stuff from DC, they want spandex and violence. So returning Babs to Oracle poses big challenges, and the Oracle name isn't nearly as well known or iconic as Batgirl.

    DC could just split the difference; Babs keeps the Batgirl name but operates in much the same way Oracle did, except instead of using a strike team like the Birds of Prey Babs does all the field work herself. That would set Babs apart from other heroes and give her the in-universe importance of Oracle but lets her stay in the action and keep the "bigger" name as well.

    As far as Dick goes....I don't see DC cancelling his book in favor of the Titans. When things are good, Nightwing and Titans sell roughly the same, with Nightwing maybe selling a little better on average. I assume the idea there would be that, with no Nightwing solo, all those wingnut fans would go to Titans and essentially double that book's sales right? But that's assuming there's no overlap between fanbases and I don't think that's the case; I think most Nightwing fans are also Titans fans so all that would happen is DC would lose potential revenue. Now, maybe DC would still do it, gods know they've done stupid stuff before with no regard to their own profit, but I like to think Jim Lee is smarter than Didio is when it comes to these franchises.

    This is also assuming DC decides to push the Titans, and I dunno if that's in the cards. AT&T might push for it given how successful the Titans are outside of comics, and maybe Lee has more faith in the brand than Didio did, but Nightwing is still (usually) one of the company's highest selling non-League, non-Harley books so I feel like there isn't much to gain by making the Titans title the only place to find Nightwing. I suspect that Dick will keep his solo regardless of what is done with Titans....but I've been wrong before.

    Making the Titans the only place to find Nightwing would also likely mean the Bat editorial office gives up Nightwing to whichever office controls the Titans, and I don't think they'll do that. They could put the Titans under the Bat office, but when DC does stuff like that (putting Wonder Woman under the Super office for example) the book never gets quality attention. What would likely happen is the Bat editors would focus on the Bat books, and the Titans would get half assed effort resulting in a low quality, low selling book. So once again, DC probably would end up losing money by getting rid of the Nightwing solo.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #2063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't hate this - but it would need to be a *really* good Titans run.

    Did y'all see Alex Ross put out some Starfire art tagged #Breakingnews, and then deleted it? It's possible DC are positioning to get behind Titans in a big way.
    I saw that! Would be amazing if we got Ross on a Titans book.

  9. #2064
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Nightwing has been most irrelevant when he has his own title. And the Titans was at its peak when he was allowed to lead and develop in the book.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  10. #2065
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    I wanna amend my previous post. That was a knee-jerk reaction and I forgot about the "Red Hood & the Outlaws" approach, and was thinking in terms of franchise, brand, and sales, without considering individual characters and DC's past struggles to find a purpose for them.

    I could see DC doing a "Nightwing & the Titans" book, where Dick is essentially the main character and the likes of Donna and Wally serve as something between supporting cast and co-stars. Just as how the Outlaws book is primarily driven by Jason but Artemis and Bizarro get plenty of attention and importance too.

    DC would still make more money with a Nightwing book and a Titans book, but they've struggled with the Titans for so damn long, I can see them doing this. Donna and Wally and most of the Titans are homeless and can barely manage to appear in their mentor titles, while Dick can't hold onto a supporting cast. This would solve both problems and DC isn't likely to care about which editor group controls the Titans.
    Last edited by Ascended; 08-10-2020 at 10:11 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #2066
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    https://64.media.tumblr.com/a682ec7d...62313d6af9.jpg

    I don't see any Titans here either. I got Oracle, Signal, Batwoman, Orphan, Robin and Nightwing and someone in a cape fighting alongside Orphan.

    But the solicitation for Nightwing #75 says his Teen Titans friends will help restore his memories but it also says Alfred will help so we might still not have anyone outside the Batfamily actually show up to help personally.
    Yeah, the only Titans on that art are Nightwing and Robin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, there's problems with Batgirl/Oracle.

    As Batgirl, Babs doesn't matter. She's just another vigilante in a city over crowded with vigilantes. Babs' role in big stories and Events has dropped off to nothing and in-universe Babs is a total non-factor (she wasn't even part of the 'Tec era Gotham Knights). And I don't believe her sales are great either; the Burnside run seemed to sell well enough but that seems to be an exception, not the rule.

    But "classic" Oracle is harder to write a monthly series around. Comics from indie publishers can get away from the typical superhero trappings, but a classic Oracle title would break the superhero mold and fans don't seem to want that kind of stuff from DC, they want spandex and violence. So returning Babs to Oracle poses big challenges, and the Oracle name isn't nearly as well known or iconic as Batgirl.

    DC could just split the difference; Babs keeps the Batgirl name but operates in much the same way Oracle did, except instead of using a strike team like the Birds of Prey Babs does all the field work herself. That would set Babs apart from other heroes and give her the in-universe importance of Oracle but lets her stay in the action and keep the "bigger" name as well.
    Based on Cass and Steph's costumes in the Batman #100 art, they're both going to be Batgirl. I think the three of them will form a team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't hate this - but it would need to be a *really* good Titans run.

    Did y'all see Alex Ross put out some Starfire art tagged #Breakingnews, and then deleted it? It's possible DC are positioning to get behind Titans in a big way.
    If you didn't see it, I posted it in the Titans thread. Something is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont think I've seen Bermejo draw Nightwing before.

    I gotta say I prefer the more high tech versions of Nightwing's suit but Bermejo's talent just cannot be questioned, the guy is so fantastic at what he does!

    So do we have any word yet on what'll be happening with Dick post-75? Any tweets from creators or whatever? I'm assuming any news will wait until that Fandome event but I don't really do social media, outside of occasionally checking facebook.
    Aren't November solicits due before Fandome?
    Last edited by Digifiend; 08-10-2020 at 11:11 AM.
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  12. #2067
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    Sticking him in Titans exclusively for a while might not be the worse thing, if for no other reason then to give the solo a break after Ric. Especially since they don’t seem interested in even protecting his return. There are no guarantees he’ll fair any better in Titan, the last Titans series certainly didn’t do him any favors, but giving his solo series a break after Ric might let the stink wear off and create time for pitch ideas. Don’t see the Bat office letting go of it though. From their stand point Nightwing is easy work they can toss to whomever with seemingly no accountability.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-10-2020 at 12:24 PM.

  13. #2068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Based on Cass and Steph's costumes in the Batman #100 art, they're both going to be Batgirl. I think the three of them will form a team.
    "Babs & the Batgirls" sounds like a pop band.

    I agree though, it looks like Steph and Cass are returning to their Batgirl costumes, I forgot about that from the promo image. But if we end up with several Batgirls running around, DC will do something to differentiate them in a stupid obvious manner (look at how they handle the Robins), so Babs returning to a more Oracle-like role while retaining the Batgirl name and costume would be fitting.

    If you didn't see it, I posted it in the Titans thread. Something is coming...
    I didn't see it, thanks for sharing. Doesn't tell us much though. Ross drew Starfire and it's tied to some announcement. Could be damn near anything; Justice League Odyssey, a Starfire solo, a NTT reunion, a Dark Multiverse one-shot, a "Marvels" style "history of DC" mini, a "Tamaran Attacks!" Event.....odds are it's another Titans reunion but you never know. And the question remains if DC would cancel Nightwing and limit him to a single Titans book the same way they have Wally and Donna. I still don't see that happening, if anything they'll put those Titans in Nightwing's book Red Hood style, but like I said, y'never know.

    Aren't November solicits due before Fandome?
    Yeah, but solicits are all screwed up already. We normally get those months in advance, but we got August solicits in mid-July. Between the pandemic and the new distributors and all the 5G plans getting changed/dropped/whatever at the last minute.....November solicits might not actually hit until December.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #2069
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    He was written worse in the last Titans series than he was written in the awful Ric story. Abnett's Dick Grayson remains the worse written version of the character I've ever read. The Titans franchise has been a complete disaster in the comics for over two decades. People looking at the Titans as some saving grace and a place to rehabilitate his character doesn't line up with what we have seen from the franchise in a long time.

  15. #2070
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I remember an interview at some point where Abnett said that he didn't bother giving much focus to Dick because he had his own solo and so he both didn't need the spotlight and also had less freedom to work with.

    And that's true, Dick's single greatest achievement occurred not in his solo features in the Batman and Detective Comics books but in the pages of the New Teen Titans, when the editors sought to keep the character.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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