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  1. #481
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Martial arts skills have become dumb and lazy. Im not sure when being good at karate chops became a superpower, but thats pretty much what it is with characters like Cass and Shiva. It defeats the entire purpose of human superheroes, who are suppose to being able to do what they do through work, thought, and determination. If they are not physically stronger then an opponents does that mean they give up, no. Same should go with karate skills. If someone is better at karate, just don't take them on in a one on one karate fight. Martial arts prowess is is so overrated when it comes to fighting ability in superhero situations its silly. Shiva especially is the most overate villain in all of DC. Deathstroke is scary cause he's superhuman not just physically but mentally, and not too mention usually armed from top to bottom. I hate when Bat characters beat him in strait hand to hand fights. They shouldn't be able to, that should be an incredibly hard thing to do for any Bat character. And when they do, it should be a big deal done through a culmination of impressive means. With Shiva just hit her with a stun gun.

    Dick should be on higher end of the spectrum when it comes to human fighters not because of kung fu skills but because of his vast years of training, history, and experience. He should be good at what he's doing by now, otherwise how has he survived as long as he has. Never the less because DC offers him zero character protection he is the go to for lazy writers to use as a quick way to try and show off so and so who don't have the years of history and work showing what they are capable of. He is DC's most comfortable baseline benchmark.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-15-2020 at 04:09 PM.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Damian's never been able to beat Dick.
    Did the ever fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Sometimes Damian can beat Jason and Tim, though more often he can't.
    That imo more a proof for the shitty treatment of Tim and Jason in Batfamily-Events then for Damians fighting skills.

  3. #483
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I tend to rank Dick somewhere in the top 10 fighters of the DCU, but on the lower end of that spectrum. Shiva and Cass and Dragon (when he exists) are the top 3, Dinah's on the list somewhere too, and I generally rank her only a little below the likes of Shiva and Cass. If we include superhumans then Wonder Woman is right up there too, and we can't discount Slade either. I don't think Bruce is in the top 10 at all; he's good, but not *that* good, and his victories usually come from gadgets and planning more than sheer combat prowess.

    Dick's spent most of his life fighting criminals, most of that time dealing with superhuman threats, and even before being Robin was performing aerial stunts most people couldn't dream of, and is generally regarded as the best natural athlete in DC. He doesn't rely on gadgets nearly as much as Bruce does.

    Granted, the last few years the comics haven't really reflected this level of skill. But given the pile of sh*t the last several years have been I'm willing to write off nearly everything as out of continuity due to DC's stupidity. The way Dick has been handled by the company shouldn't *count* when figuring out who Dick is or what he's capable of.

    But it really pisses me off when this guy, who's been in the game longer than most Leaguers and is among the most experienced heroes on earth, gets treated like a idiot sidekick still figuring himself out.
    Thank you. Someone with some SENSE around here.

  4. #484
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    Just saw the Black Canary vs Sindel Death Battle when the video slipped into my YouTube recommendations feed. I'm amending my earlier statement--- Dinah would wipe the floor with Dick in straight hand-to-hand, Canary Cry or no Canary Cry.

    (Also, it's frightening how YouTube knew to recommend it when I wasn't even searching for Black Canary / Birds of Prey on the platform / Google...)
    Last edited by xiyon; 02-15-2020 at 06:24 PM.
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  5. #485
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    So overall Dick is top 10. However, I do wonder with how Dick is with Supes. How should he be with Diana? I mean they donÂ’t spend time often. I mean in a sense he is part of the time trinity

  6. #486
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Thank you. Someone with some SENSE around here.
    >bro-fist!<

    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    Just saw the Black Canary vs Sindel Death Battle when the video slipped into my YouTube recommendations feed. I'm amending my earlier statement--- Dinah would wipe the floor with Dick in straight hand-to-hand, Canary Cry or no Canary Cry.
    I dunno if I'd say "wipe the floor with..." but yeah, I see her winning at least half her matches against Dick. When written right that woman is fierce as f*ck.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So overall Dick is top 10. However, I do wonder with how Dick is with Supes. How should he be with Diana? I mean they donÂ’t spend time often. I mean in a sense he is part of the time trinity
    How do you mean? Like Dick's relationship dynamic with Clark? I'd say their bond is probably more like "cool uncle/favorite nephew" than anything. I think Seely captured it really well back at the start of Rebirth.

    And no, I don't think Dick ever interacted with Diana much. He had team ups with Superman, but none with Diana that I know of. He did work with her as part of "Batman and...." but that was it.

    I'd like to think that he was very intimidated by her back in the day. Imagine being this very young teen in pixie shorts, full of adolescent hormones and confusion, and the most beautiful, powerful woman in the world is sitting at the same table.

    And I like to think Dick never quite outgrew that, and Diana still makes him tongue tied and he blushes just looking at her.
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  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dunno if I'd say "wipe the floor with..." but yeah, I see her winning at least half her matches against Dick. When written right that woman is fierce as f*ck.
    Maybe the first few fights will be even, but as each fight progresses, Dinah will be able to counter him more.

    When I made my first statement, it was just under the assumption that Dinah was trained by Wildcat to search for weaknesses, and Dinah knows a lot of fighting styles. Big whoop--- so can pretty much every named hand-to-hand combatant in the DC universe. But the Death Battle video showed Dinah's more than that. She learns and adapts fast, to the point of beating even Wonder Woman in a spar, and out-thinking/processing a Green Lantern Power Ring. Now that's impressive.

    Unfortunately, Dick hasn't had, as far as I know, a remotely similar feat, so, yeah-- Dinah would wipe the floor with him. Dinah vs Cass would be a fairer fight, imho.

    I'm still going with Dick being the bastard fighter giving him an edge in a no holds barred fight, though. Hiding in the shadows, hitting you from behind, going for the sucker punch, and even cracking yo momma taunts mid-fight.
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    CyClones! CyClones e~very~wheeeeere~!

    You'd think the WatXM staff that defected from Utopia because "think of the children!" would put a stop to The Crucible, but here we are now...

    "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it."

  8. #488
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Pfft Dick beat Wonder Woman when he was a kid . Seriously though 80 year’s old, Dick has “feats” for days.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-15-2020 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #489
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    How would he beat her? Your talking about a wonder who doesn't need her super-strength. Not only that but she is one of the best fighters. Also, she could have been holding back. Diana also had impress feet. But yea, I'm talking about the relationship with Diana and DIck. We don't get to see how their dynamic is. But anyway I hope Dc brought back the fact Dick got the name Nightwing from Clarke.

  10. #490
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Man thank goodness I don't care about feats in comics, there so inconsistent. I just want characters to be in there proper tier, who beats who I don't care.

    But hell yeah I want more dick with clark and diana. Dick and Clark on big uncle little nephew adventures I'm there.

    Dick having a huge crush on diana is to funny to past up. The irony. Dick with most females is this charming and charismatic young man but dick around diana is more shy a d bumbling. Sounds fun.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    Unfortunately, Dick hasn't had, as far as I know, a remotely similar feat, so, yeah-- Dinah would wipe the floor with him. Dinah vs Cass would be a fairer fight, imho.
    Feats are often nor really a good metric, especially if it is just one feat, since the best (and worst) feats of a character are often PIS.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Man thank goodness I don't care about feats in comics, there so inconsistent. I just want characters to be in there proper tier, who beats who I don't care.

    But hell yeah I want more dick with clark and diana. Dick and Clark on big uncle little nephew adventures I'm there.

    Dick having a huge crush on diana is to funny to past up. The irony. Dick with most females is this charming and charismatic young man but dick around diana is more shy a d bumbling. Sounds fun.
    This talk of Dick hanging out with the other two in the Trinity makes me think.

    Would a Trinity book with Nightwing, Donna Troy, and...er, Power Girl (she's the one in their generation, right?) sell? Who would they even fight?
    Don't like? Don't read. Let your wallet talk.

    When will Logan call out Jean for putting his clone and his clone's underage clone in an X-Squad?

    CyClones! CyClones e~very~wheeeeere~!

    You'd think the WatXM staff that defected from Utopia because "think of the children!" would put a stop to The Crucible, but here we are now...

    "It's only wrong when Cyclops does it."

  13. #493
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    This talk of Dick hanging out with the other two in the Trinity makes me think.

    Would a Trinity book with Nightwing, Donna Troy, and...er, Power Girl (she's the one in their generation, right?) sell? Who would they even fight?
    Editorial, hopefully.

  14. #494
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    >bro-fist!<



    I dunno if I'd say "wipe the floor with..." but yeah, I see her winning at least half her matches against Dick. When written right that woman is fierce as f*ck.



    How do you mean? Like Dick's relationship dynamic with Clark? I'd say their bond is probably more like "cool uncle/favorite nephew" than anything. I think Seely captured it really well back at the start of Rebirth.

    And no, I don't think Dick ever interacted with Diana much. He had team ups with Superman, but none with Diana that I know of. He did work with her as part of "Batman and...." but that was it.

    I'd like to think that he was very intimidated by her back in the day. Imagine being this very young teen in pixie shorts, full of adolescent hormones and confusion, and the most beautiful, powerful woman in the world is sitting at the same table.

    And I like to think Dick never quite outgrew that, and Diana still makes him tongue tied and he blushes just looking at her.
    I don't think he'd feel that way about Diana nowadays. She just looks like an older Donna, remember (this is due to Donna's real life origins, as a teenage Diana who was accidentally mistaken for a sidekick when the first Teen Titans story was being written, and later retconned as being a new character). Diana and Donna look so alike that Donna's been mistaken for Wonder Woman.
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  15. #495
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Did they ever fight?
    Training and when he's being petulant

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So overall Dick is top 10. However, I do wonder how Dick is with Supes. How should he be with Diana? I mean they donÂ’t spend time often. I mean in a sense he is part of the time trinity
    The few times I saw Dick interact with Justice League gen who are not Clark, he's casual professional. He's been around the adult heroes since he was a kid and knows their sidekicks, so the ones he doesn't interact personally he knows from his friends.

    As a kid, he respects and admires them, but as a teen and leader of independent young heroes who know them, he started to see their cracks. So as an adult, he's not afraid to interact, or when it comes to it, suggest, take the lead, or call them out.

    He doesn't get flustered by Diana as an adult. The only version of Dick I know that has a fantasy about Diana is the one where he never knew Donna and rarely interact with the Justice League in the first place (Grayson #11 I think).

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