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  1. #2491
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Anyone giving Dick Nightwing back misses the point, and it not being a big deal just further misses the point. After 2 years of a Ric rejecting Nightwing, Dick reclaiming Nightwing should be a big deal. Instead it becomes just a uniform Batman gives one of his soldiers. From Talon’s bitch, to Joker’s bitch, to Batman’s bitch. It’s Dick just pulling a Nightwing suit out of his trunk in Titans Hunt all over again, but worse. It’s Batman pulling it out his ass and telling him to put it on. It’s something that should be a moment turned into nothing. And it not like they don’t know it cause the made the cover around it, yet given the issue itself it was like a cover for a different issue.
    I didn't expect much from Tynion honestly but I expected better than this.

  2. #2492
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    I haven't enjoyed a Dick Grayson comic since Grayson kind of sad but superspy dick was the best version for me anyway.

  3. #2493
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I'm not sure what the current canon is anymore, but Dick became Nightwing because Bruce fried him from being Robin. That is the most recent one at least. So you can act like Dick became Nightwing on his own apart from Batman, but he didn't. Bruce firing him forced Dick to become Nightwing. So it all stems from Batman just like how Robin is now Batman's to control despite it being a deeply personal identity Dick created on his own. That is just how things are.

    The JL #53 issue was a bit heavy on the "Wow, look at how great the JL is. I can't wait to be there one day" stuff, but I get it is the JL's book. Plus I am still horribly confused at how old Dick was when he became Robin if he first met the JL when he looked 16 or so. The dig at Ric was really nice though and made the issue. Hopefully Dick doesn't get treated as poorly like he did in the last Metal event. Where Dick gave up all hope, wanted to leave Bruce for dead, got punched by Damian in the face, and then did nothing for the rest of the event.
    Unless JL #53 or Jurgens run mention it since that will be the newest change, the last time I heard about his turn to Nightwing was in Grayson where they talked about how he's growing up and need space of his own. I don't remember the firing ever mentioned.

    Don't think too much about his Robin age because Snyder from what I've seen still operate squarely on New 52 continuity. He's still using 16-year-old Dick and buzzcut Bruce Wayne from Zero Year, even though King has brought back Year One and mentioned that Dick already became Robin when they met Selina in the boat.

  4. #2494
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.
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  5. #2495
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Really enjoyed JL 53, but I've been out of comics for a while. What do I need to get to make sense of the world/setting?

  6. #2496
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    The Heavy Metal event.

  7. #2497
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.
    Unclear canon. Rebirth has been avoiding showing Dick in scaly panties but the anniversary stories keep using it. So they're like different worlds.

  8. #2498
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think people are really overthinking Batman handing Dick a costume.
    I mean, i get the disappointment. Dick's lost of identity went on for the better part of two years and the ultimate payoff for it ended up being for the resolution to get relegated to a side plot in a Joker storyline. There's a level a tone-deafness there, because even in this issue with the cover trumpeting his return, Dick is still ultimately a minor character because Harley Quinn is the second lead here.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  9. #2499
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    It is a Joker story and Dick doesn't really have any connection with the Joker on any kind of deeper level. So he was always going to be a minor character in this story. From the beginning with Punchline it was always setup with Harley being the 2nd most important "hero" in it with characters like Dick just filling out the background. Although that cover with him in the Nightwing suit was kind of a bait and switch I guess. Advertising it as Dick's BIG RETURN to Nightwing after not having it in his own book after two years of awful Ric stories, but it is just Bruce handing him his suit and that is it. A big let down but not a surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.
    I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.

  10. #2500
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    I mean, i get the disappointment. Dick's lost of identity went on for the better part of two years and the ultimate payoff for it ended up being for the resolution to get relegated to a side plot in a Joker storyline. There's a level a tone-deafness there, because even in this issue with the cover trumpeting his return, Dick is still ultimately a minor character because Harley Quinn is the second lead here.
    I mean, I totally get wanting Dick's return to happen more on his own terms and wanting him to play a bigger role, but Batman handing him a costume doesn't equate to Batman "owning" Nightwing or giving Dick permission to be Nightwing to me.

    The Harley stuff just irritates the heck out of me. She really has no business being as big a part of this story as she is, and she's the last person who should be lecturing Batman about killing Joker. Jason is literally in the story !!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.
    Especially the one that had the 2003 cartoon Titans...for some reason.

  11. #2501
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Oh as for me the way Nightwing returns with a thud is... after 2 years of Ric it's just... pretty much what I expected. They miss a big comeback at least three times, so by now, it's just 'eh sure'. I maybe wrong but I think that was my reaction when it was announced. Not "yay" not "finally" but "eh whatevs"
    The moment's gone. Do whatever you want. You already did whatever you want. It will take more than that to make me look.

  12. #2502
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I totally get wanting Dick's return to happen more on his own terms and wanting him to play a bigger role, but Batman handing him a costume doesn't equate to Batman "owning" Nightwing or giving Dick permission to be Nightwing to me.

    The Harley stuff just irritates the heck out of me. She really has no business being as big a part of this story as she is, and she's the last person who should be lecturing Batman about killing Joker. Jason is literally in the story !!!

    Especially the one that had the 2003 cartoon Titans...for some reason.
    That same story had a 22 year timeline and the Titans were in year 4, which would make them too old. Even if they were 16 in that appearance, by the end of the story they'd be 34, which is at least five years older than they should be.
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  13. #2503
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.
    A lot of them are just set in the past, not as many are non-canon as it seems. Bendis's story seems to be set during or immediately after Tynion's Tec Rebirth run, considering the costumes - why make that effort if it wasn't meant to be canon? Using the current costumes would've placed it out of continuity due to Dick only just coming back and Damian currently not being Robin. In the Robin special, it's clear that the Tim Drake stories take place late in his Robin series and just before Tec Rebirth, and one of Dick's stories was set during the 1999 Titans series. Damian had a story that directly led into what just happened in Teen Titans, the last story in Tec #1027 was also definitely canon for similar reasons. Joker's anniversary special included Punchline's origin. That Nightwing story I mentioned takes place just before he took the Nightwing mantle in Tales of the Teen Titans. It was supposed to be an update for why he stopped being Robin, the original version having not been canon since Crisis on Infinite Earths since that event resulted in Jason Todd getting rebooted.
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  14. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The JL #53 issue was a bit heavy on the "Wow, look at how great the JL is. I can't wait to be there one day" stuff, but I get it is the JL's book.
    I quite like that that's his view as a kid, and then adult Nightwing is emphatic a couple of times later that he's *not* Justice League. Given the characters coming back in later issues, and the fact he's now against a Titan, presumably Williamson is building to a definitive "Dick is a Titan and not Justice League In Waiting thing". Which would be tricky to make look like a triumph rather than a limit of ambition, but good luck to him!

    Also, this tie-in now calling back to No Justice as part of the big event Finale to Snyder's Justice League just makes it seem even odder that Nightwing was replaced by Green Arrow at the last minute in that series - who then went on to do, as I understand it, nothing.

    (Or it would be, if anyone remembered No Justice.)

  15. #2505
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I'm not reading Tynion's Batman (I'll grab the trades maybe) so I haven't even read any of this, but I gotta agree with the "meh, whatever, f*ck off* sentiment. Two years of crap Ric stories, a return that's just a subplot in someone else's book.....DC is gonna have to do better than that for my money.

    The second we have a proper Nightwing title with a quality creative team, I will be all over that. Might even buy two copies if the writer and artist aren't the bottom of the creative barrel. But I've refused to support Ric and I'll be damned if I'll support equally low effort just because Dick's got his name back.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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