Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[K. Jones]

Personally in his way of thinking, life, and modus operandi, I don't think Dick Grayson is the type of person who would have an arch-enemy. I mean jerk villains have even come at him with these personal grudges and history "from way back" trying to make nemesis-status stick and it never sticks. Dude is an upbeat, believes in the good in people piece of teflon.

From a more meta, authorial point of view ... it's hard to have an arch-enemy sometimes. Batman is very cool. Joker is kind of equally cool in his own way, or "neat" anyway. Great look, good hook. Kind of small-time considering Batman Justice Leagues every day but Joker only Dooms once in a great while. But it's personal. It's a local beef. It's like Whoever's Pizza versus Whoever's Pizza in some city.

I guess a villain kind of reflects some of the flaws in a hero, so Joker pushes the lines of decency like an edgy comedian and Batman just won't kill him. His antipathy tests the heroism of the no kill rule. So on so forth and after that it's basically just a small-town rivalry between egos, because they're both criminals, deviants and immoral, it just depends who is casting the aspersions.

In Dick Grayson's case it's hard. He's very optimistic. So you might think, oh give him a cynic! They rolled that out with James Gordon Jr. in Snyder's Black Mirror. Good run of comics, but that dude as a villain does not have legs. Plus you can't make anyone "Gordon" into a Grayson rival. But more than that ... he's optimistic but dude is not naive or idealistic. He grew up in Batman's house. He's shrewd.

They tried the "we were punk kids together thing" a dozen times, but foremost with like, well, Crime School for Boys, but more recently, Shrike. No legs. Then again he had a pretty bad late 90s costume. Real bad costume. Plus everyone was just assassins back then in the late 90s.

They've tried the femme fatale angle a few times and it never seems to work but probably because it seems childish and rote? Dick has a string of lovers (more or less all fellow superheroes) that are all such good people (and cool characters) that we constantly debate who is the best one for him like a celebrity couple that broke up! The answer of course is that they're ALL really good for him. The common denominator is Dick Grayson. He's bad for all of them. Dick Grayson is a flake.

How do you make a femme fatale expoit THAT though? He actually IS dating a superhero ... but then flakes on her even after there was marriage teases ... he pulls a Kory (or Babs) and leaves her at the altar or close to it, or I mean, he could cheat. Dude lives life keeping secrets ... and THAT is what causes her to become a super-villain. That mister perfect Dick Grayson, god that he is, doesn't want her? Kind of weak. Oh I mean it happens to people in real life, they become enemies because of heart-break. I just think you know, it's a weakness. It's not a healthy approach. Which of course, screams super-villain to you? Well of course. But not a STRONG arch-nemesis of a super-villain who can match Dick in wits, blows, and emotional headgames. That's a nemesis but not an ARCH-nemesis.

So man, what's the approach?

The easy answer is of course ... if Dick Grayson is a spy, his opposite number in the rival organization instantly gets to be a hand-crafted arch-nemesis. I mean, you could even make him go villain and it could actually be NEMESIS. A lover boy, a pretty boy. A master spy. Dick might be more the fighter, but Nemesis is the master of disguise. Dick dated Koriander? Nemesis dated Wonder Woman. And now he's a villain. But a rival with a code. Just not Dick's code. Not Batman's naive super-hero code. For the greater good, people gotta die. And Dick Grayson is in the way. And maybe just maybe it's the moral argument. The logical argument. And what's more ... in his youth ... Alfred Pennyworth, Dick's fatherly surrogate figure who he loves and respects ... used to be a Nemesis type guy. An agent, man of action ... and killer, which pits the ideals and values of BOTH of Dick's role models against each other in his mind.

[Robanker]

Fool me once, DC... I'll believe he's back when I read it on the printed page.

But I will leaf through the book in my LCS to see if I'm buying the issue. I miss Nightwing so damn bad.

[WonderNight]

Dick being back is great and all but I don't see much changeing from what we have now.

[Restingvoice]

IT'S OVER!! IT'S OVER!!

"And then in Batman #99 on September 15, Nightwing returns to Gotham City in 'The Joker War' part four!" DC's description continues. "Things have changed, as Batman realizes he can’t fight this war alone. He’s going to need help. Before he faces down The Joker, he must call up his trusty partner Dick Grayson! But can Dick reclaim his lost memories in time to join the battle?"

https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing...the-joker-war/

By the way that's Batman's dad's bod. He doesn't have a beer belly, he just got really wide. Like this is the preview of his TDKR build.

[Coco Loco]

This storyline didn't get any smarter during the three-month break. Jurgens got in a few jabs that were funny - I think he realizes he's trying to make lemonade here - but it is. Still. So. Stupid. Bea is almost as annoying as Ric. There's a scene with the fake Nightwings in the most recent issue that is like every badly written hospital scene ever, jumbled into one mess. (BTW anesthesia doesn't take two minutes to knock you out. They tell you to count backwards from 10. You're asleep before you get to 1.)

I assume this will eventually serve the purpose of undoing this nonsense, but ugh.

[Drako]

You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.

Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?

You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.

I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.

[Light of Justice]

You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.

Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?

You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.

I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.

Joker did the super slow walk of villains hahaha

What makes me curious is why Tusk have complete 2 ivories? Didn't he lost one of his ivories in the past? Or ivories can grow up after being cut like nails?

[Coco Loco]

You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.

Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?

You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.

I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.

Yup. Good point. Why would Joker bother to distract him at all, if he was just going to wait patiently for him to get back?

[AmiMizuno]

This is why I question is Dick a well Dick if he cheats? Dc loves to have Dick at times be the Cheater. What do you guys think? He cheated on Kory and Babs. I mean he at least needs to have a villain that he fights often. We also have at least one femme fatale. He is part of the Batfam.

[Godlike13]

He cheated 1 time.

[AmiMizuno]

Oh. My bad. It's been a while. My friends kept telling me he has cheated on women before. Okay. Should he have a femme Fatale? I mean does he need Mutiple lov interests? We have Kori and Babs. Do we need someone else to mix the pot?

[Elmo]

Oh. My bad. It's been a while. My friends kept telling me he has cheated on women before. Okay. Should he have a femme Fatale? I mean does he need Mutiple lov interests? We have Kori and Babs. Do we need someone else to mix the pot?

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...son-s-Soulmate

one of the best threads ever. 100+ pages for a reason.

I personally don't care if Dick is single or has a love interest, I would only feel uncomfortable if he is regarded as some sleazy playboy. Dick Grayson is someone who is universally respected by the superhero community so that should remain true even with his romantic flings, no matter how awkward.

[AmiMizuno]

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...son-s-Soulmate

one of the best threads ever. 100+ pages for a reason.

I personally don't care if Dick is single or has a love interest, I would only feel uncomfortable if he is regarded as some sleazy playboy. Dick Grayson is someone who is universally respected by the superhero community so that should remain true even with his romantic flings, no matter how awkward.

Agree. Now, how well respect is he?

[Elmo]

Agree. Now, how well respect is he?

dick grayson pulls a lot of weight. he is one of the most respected legacy characters and one of the most respected characters in all of DC.

when it comes to "how well respected is he," well you'd have to read some of his character interactions. I'd say he earned that title in my eyes through the 2000s.

[Ascended]

In-universe, Dick is one of the most respected people in the heroic community. Or was, anyway. In recent years it seems this has been downplayed a lot, as with many other elements of Dick's life and ability.

I'd argue that if you were going to make a list (not based on current continuity), it'd go Superman, Wonder Woman, Nightwing, Batman.

People know that Batman will get the job done and his dedication to his mission is truly admirable and knows no limits. But he's also a jackass who has a habit of being a manipulative control freak. When Batman says "Do this thing and we'll win the fight" people know that if they do the thing, the fight will be won. But there are concerns about Batman; he has plans to stop you, he's got spy satellites watching you, he's got secrets that might impact you he won't share, he'll suck you into his plans and use you, and might even be manipulating you right now. Batman is respected, but not trusted.

With Nightwing, there isn't any of that doubt. People think he's got a moral compass on the level of Superman's, the technical and tactical prowess of Batman (or close to it), and the compassion of Diana. Like Superman himself says in Seeley's run "The Nightwing seal of approval carries a lot of weight."