Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Restingvoice]

Was it when he was fighting Shiva? Been so long since I read that now.

I think they gave it to him to make up for his lost history as a way to keep his abilities at a good level. Since he was 16 now and was only with Bruce for under 2 years before he left.

Nah. Just to recognize Bruce Wayne as Batman and win at a card game to get information ^^

[Aahz]

Oh I thought he was just visiting

Just rechecked it, he became co-owner in New Teen Titans #60.

[Konja7]

They gave Dick that ability too in the New 52 and Cass fans got upset by it because it made her less special from what I remember. It was a long time ago now so I can't remember it clearly.

I've never understand why Cass fans are so angry. There was a lot more on Cass than her ability to predict oponent's movement.

Although I guess that's why so many Dick fans were angry that Tim was an athletic gymnast.


It is funny, many fans are angry that the Batfamily characters are reduced to their abilities, but they are also angry if other members of the Batfamily have similar abilities.

[Godlike13]

They gave Dick the ability to read people along the lines a poker player being able to read a person, vs Cass were its more of a precondition superpower. Its whatever. On one hand it makes sense for an aerialist to be ability to anticipate a body's movement, and quite frankly to a degree its part of basic fighting, but again its whatever. Its world building and **** to do that Dick needed more so then feats or what have you. The introduction of Shiva into his origin was awful though. There are a ton of characters better suited for that role then boring Shiva, but Shiva had nothing else going on so they had to force her somewhere. Its sucked and the resulting DeFalco story was trash. Non of that that was for Dick's benefit.

As to Dick fans being angry that Tim was an athletic gymnast, remember he was also the new creator of the Teen Titans. This is more then simply stealing an ability, an ability they all already do to a degree, they tore Dick's entire Titans history away form him and his mythos to try and insert it into Tim. To try and keep Tim and his relevant in a new younger world they quite frankly did not fit, while whatever remnants of Dick's Titans that were left were given to Jason to help fill out his series. Making Tim an Olympic gymnast was just a further twist of the knife during the larger pillaging that was going on.

[Konja7]

They gave Dick the ability to read people along the lines a poker player being able to read a person, vs Cass were its more of a precondition superpower. Its whatever. On one hand it makes sense for an aerialist to be ability to anticipate a body's movement, and quite frankly to a degree its part of basic fighting, but again its whatever. Its world building and **** to do that Dick needed more so then feats or what have you. The introduction of Shiva into his origin was awful though. There are a ton of characters better suited for that role then boring Shiva, but Shiva had nothing else going on so they had to force her somewhere. Its sucked and the resulting DeFalco story was trash. Non of that that was for Dick's benefit.

As to Dick fans being angry that Tim was an athletic gymnast, remember he was also the new creator of the Teen Titans. This is more then simply stealing an ability, an ability they all already do to a degree, they tore Dick's entire Titans history away form him and his mythos to try and insert it into Tim. To try and keep Tim and his relevant in a new younger world they quite frankly did not fit, while whatever remnants of Dick's Titans were left were given to Jason to help fill out his series. Making Tim an Olympic gymnast was just a further twist of the knife during the larger pillaging that was going on.

I don't exactly remember, do we know that Dick lost his Teen Titans group when we heard about Tim as a gymnast?

At the beginning of New52, Dick's Titans still existed (likely due to miscommunicatiom from DC side). It was lated established that Tim's Teen Titans was the first. I don't exactly remember if we already know that when we heard about Tim as a gymanst.

[Godlike13]

Zero Month was a year after the New 52, readers knew what was what by then. Whatever makeshift group Lobdell tried to concoct with Dick, Roy, Kory, and Dustin was dropped by then. Dick's TTs and NTTs was clearly gone for the most part, along with most of that generation, and whatever remnants that were left Dick could not touch. Not only that whatever existed in their place was left to the whims of Lobdell, Tim and Jason's current writer, and not Dick's own creator. Its part of why i felt for Higgins and the hand he was dealt. He had to lean so hard into Batman and Dick's Hailey's history cause he had no influence on anything else with Dick, and could touch a huge part of what created Nightwing.

[Digifiend]

I've never understand why Cass fans are so angry. There was a lot more on Cass than her ability to predict oponent's movement.

Cass had also been completely erased from continuity at the time.

[Restingvoice]

I also remember Tim fans got angry because Dick is able to recognize Bruce as Batman because that's supposed to be Tim's thing

It's a Batfam skill and anger merry-go-round ^^

[WonderNight]

I also remember Tim fans got angry because Dick is able to recognize Bruce as Batman because that's supposed to be Tim's thing

It's a Batfam skill and anger merry-go-round ^^

That's why you don't make so many redundant characters in the first place.

[Rac7d*]

That's why you don't make so many redundant characters in the first place.

It’s just a matter of time if Tim does not find his own identity. Their gonna realize a third white Robin is not necessary. Duke should be transitioning soon.

[dropkickjake]

tbf, I wasn't happy with giving "cass's" ability to Dick at all. It just felt like a cheap make up call for giving so much of Dick's backstory and relationships to Tim and Jason.

[AmiMizuno]

I really feel the Batfam is way too big. I also feel due to Dick’s time and his own turn with the Titans. He should be the best fighter on Batfam. That they just want Dick to look bad like they always do

[Godlike13]

I’d rather Dick had more good fights, more so then be the best fighter. Give me memorable fight scenes over karate chopping Shiva or what have you.

[Digifiend]

It’s just a matter of time if Tim does not find his own identity. Their gonna realize a third white Robin is not necessary. Duke should be transitioning soon.

No he shouldn't. He started in We Are Robin, leading a gang of unofficial Robins. When he officially joined the Bat family, he decided he should have a unique identity instead, and became The Signal. Becoming a Robin would be a backward step for him.

[Badou]

I think Snyder wanted Duke to be Robin, but he just couldn't do it because of Damian. I feel like there was a flashforward in his run where Duke was shown as Robin, or maybe it was another black Robin. I know in that Future's End story he was Robin there. It's just I don't think the Signal is ever going to catch on with how crowded the Batman family and DC's collection of young heroes are now. There is just no room for him and with long form superhero comics being even more niche than ever before I don't know if there is an audience to support him enough to keep him around. It really feels like DC stretched the Robin identity out too much and now these group of characters are kind of cannibalizing each other for pieces of history, stories and relevance where it gets frustrating for their fans.

We've been seeing Tim struggle to find an identity and direction after moving on from Robin for a decade now. It's been a mess in my opinion. Having him lead young hero teams is the only thing that has been keeping him around it feels like, but none of those teams have been that successful. The recent Young Justice book that got a big push completely flopped. I have been wondering if DC will pull a Wally West or a Helena Bertinelli and just race swap Tim to be black to fill that black hero role DC desperately wants in Gotham, but doing that would pretty much mean the death of characters like Duke probably. Which goes back to my point about how these characters are cannibalizing each other.

I really just wonder what these kind of comics will be like 5-10 years from now. I get that creators will still want to create new characters because it is better for them financially to do so, it is one reason why you are seeing Tynion create a bunch of new characters in his run, but it feels like we are already at the breaking point with how many characters these kind of comics can realistically support.