Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Journey]

In Jurgens defense if I spent such and such a lot of time putting my time and effort writing a story, ain't no way I'm gonna shit on it in the final chapters Ric was his baby of course he want's this time to mean something, it doesn't but I understand that he wants it too Lol.

[Claude]

In Jurgens defense if I spent such and such a lot of time putting my time and effort writing a story, ain't no way I'm gonna shit on it in the final chapters Ric was his baby of course he want's this time to mean something, it doesn't but I understand that he wants it too Lol.

Yeah, I'm torn - on the one hand, it seems to be objectively a good thing to close out the arc properly after two years - take the time to tie everything off, just as a general principle. On the other hand, this run isn't worth the paper my digital copies are printed on - and it *still* sticks in my craw that "Grayson" didn't get the same courtesy!

Hopefully, *hopefully*, we'll get some exciting news in next month's remittances. The Justice League arc ended up a bit nothingy, but I'd still be on board for Williamson building something up - and maybe we're now reaching the point where Snyder's "Nightwing: Parabola" could plausibly start turning up?

[Badou]

That's of course true.

But when it comes to Dick, I think has been for a few years trend to have him overcome even pretty powerfull opponents way to easy, and that takes imo away a lot of tension from his stories.

It's like that with all the Batman family pretty much. With Bruce there are way too many to count, and Jason in his book has crazy feats as well. He's been running around with an Amazon and Bizarro so he's written in a way to be looked at as their "equal". Even in that Leviathan series by Bendis he had Jason take on Batman, Green Arrow, Damian, Plastic Man, and Manhunter all at the same time and beat them. Then of course there is Tim who is written as being smarter than everyone constantly. It isn't really a new thing. I mean Bruce, Babs, and Damain all beat up KGBeast before Dick did here, lol. It does suck that all the tension is gone from these fights though most of the time because no outcome is that surprising anymore.

I'd argue that Dick gets beaten up and embarrassed more than most from the group. The Grayson series was probably the run that gave Dick the most "feats" since the New 52, but Higgins run to start the New 52 was just Dick getting beaten up all the time and struggling to get by, then Dick got beaten up in Forever Evil by the Crime Syndicate, Grayson bumped up his abilities again where he fought some strong guys, but then Seeley's Nightwing run was a mixed bag. Nothing major there. Then of course there was Abnett's Titans run where Dick was beaten up there and made to look incompetent. Remember in Titans Hunt where Abnett had Dick run away from Donna and Garth in complete terror because they were super powered? Haha, it was bad. Then of course the Ric arc where Dick was manipulated and used by the Scarecrow, Talon and the Owls, and then the Joker. He's had a really rough go of it since Flashpoint.

In Jurgens defense if I spent such and such a lot of time putting my time and effort writing a story, ain't no way I'm gonna shit on it in the final chapters Ric was his baby of course he want's this time to mean something, it doesn't but I understand that he wants it too Lol.

I mean Percy wrote the story first for an issue, and then Lobdell wrote it after him after campaigning for the Ric story to last longer behind the scenes and then left after an arc. Then Jurgens started on the Ric stuff. If anything Jurgens should have done the opposite of them, but he just leaned into their mess more and more over his run.

[Restingvoice]

"I had only been Robin for a year when I snuck into the Justice League meeting"

Oh. *** you. You're messing with my timeline again. Though only one year makes sense. Okay. Here goes.
Batman Year One - 25-year-old Batman
Batman Year Two - Daughter of The Demon and Son of The Demon - Damian is conceived and born as soon as possible
Batman Year ??? - Death of The Flying Graysons - Dick was adopted as a child - by the art approximately age 10-13
Robin Training - Dick age 13-14
Robin Year One - Dick wears his first costume - the updated classic with pants - by the art approximate age is 14-15 - First encounter with Catwoman at the boat
Robin Year Two - Dick wears his New 52 costume - age approximately 15-16 - seeing The League
Teen Titans Year One - Dick age 16-17 - Very possibly he immediately formed Teen Titans after that
Nightwing Year One - Robin II Year One - No reference - Dick is at least 18 - Jason is 15-16
Robin III Year One - Death in The Family - A Lonely Place of Dying - Tim is 12 - Jason died at 16-17 - Immediately resurrected
Batman Year 11 At Minimum - Talia introduced Damian to Batman - Damian is 10 years old - Tim 13 - Batman Robin Reborn - Under The Red Hood
Batman Year 12 At Minimum - New 52 Year One - The Court of Owls - Damian 11 Tim 14
Batman Year 13 At Minimum - New 52 Year Two - Endgame - Damian 12 Tim 15
Batman Year 14 At Minimum - Rebirth Begins - Dark Knights Metal - Damian is 13 years old - Tim is 16 - Bruce is 39
Batman Year 15 at a minimum - Rebirth Year Two - Death Metal - Bruce is 40 - Damian 14 Tim 17 Jason 22?

[SanityOrMadness]

Don't bother trying to figure it out. Death Metal is apparently going to break any hope of a chronology that fits (the characters are going to remember their entire publication history. Even stuff like the post-Crisis stories written to overwrite stuff from pre-Crisis).

[dropkickjake]

Holding the timeline loosely and thinking about this as mythology more than a tight history will also probably save more than a few grey or lost hairs.

[Restingvoice]

Shut up and let me have my fun

[Digifiend]

What appears to be next is Professor Grayson at Titans Academy....or whatever they will end up calling it. And if you think that is just a reference to Future State then go look up the ending to today's issue of Teen Titans.

That issue doesn't refer to an academy. Only the New Teen Titans welcoming the current team to Titans Tower. Which sounds more like the 2003 set-up where the rookies (the Young Justice team) were mentored by the veterans (Cyborg, Beast Boy).

[Avi]

That issue doesn't refer to an academy. Only the New Teen Titans welcoming the current team to Titans Tower. Which sounds more like the 2003 set-up where the rookies (the Young Justice team) were mentored by the veterans (Cyborg, Beast Boy).

Yeah. Now that I have read the Issue I feel as if this isn't something entirely new and the next two Titans-related stories won't be as X-Men-y as FS will be. Tying the Titans together might actually turn into a good thing. No least for Dick. Though it still felt out of character to see Dick present Damian like that. I can see him saying he isn't like Damian as a way to manipulate the Titans, but that's A) not what his goal should be and B) the older Titans lose their chance to be better than the League. Overall it seems like a push for independence that is being very strangely and illogically archived.

[Claude]

Yeah. Now that I have read the Issue I feel as if this isn't something entirely new and the next two Titans-related stories won't be as X-Men-y as FS will be. Tying the Titans together might actually turn into a good thing. No least for Dick. Though it still felt out of character to see Dick present Damian like that. I can see him saying he isn't like Damian as a way to manipulate the Titans, but that's A) not what his goal should be and B) the older Titans lose their chance to be better than the League. Overall it seems like a push for independence that is being very strangely and illogically archived.

Yeah, if it's less a big mass of All Titans Ever, and instead an eight-person team of Dick, Donna, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Roundhouse, Crush, Red Arrow and Kid Flash that seems a very different thing. Team still a bit large for my taste, but it's a quite good mix of powers and personality types - as well as of "classic" and "new" characters.

Question would be whether "what happens next with Damian" is a Titans story or a Batman story.

[SanityOrMadness]

Yeah, if it's less a big mass of All Titans Ever, and instead an eight-person team of Dick, Donna, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Roundhouse, Crush, Red Arrow and Kid Flash that seems a very different thing. Team still a bit large for my taste, but it's a quite good mix of powers and personality types - as well as of "classic" and "new" characters.

Ten. You missed Raven & Starfire. (Although the solicit suggests only Donna & Gar from the NTT will actually be in TT:EW)

Question would be whether "what happens next with Damian" is a Titans story or a Batman story.

Detective Comics.

[K. Jones]

Not just this issue. KGBeast is pretty much the Batfamily's new punching bag now. First Bruce had a whack at him. Then Damian. Then Dick. Who's next? Jason? Tim? Batcow?

I mean even just prior to the current events ... Scott Snyder kind of made him terrifying in that All-Star Batman "basically just a mini-series lead-up to Metal" story, but like two months later to that in a Lobdell RHATO comic Jason and Dick teamed up and kicked the crap out of him. And who can forget a few years ago when Ugly Mannheim killed him for no reason but then there was just another KGBeast running around in-continuity that was probably a new guy ... prior to flashpointing that bit out of existence. No consistency for the guy. More like TEN WRITERS TAKES OF THE BEAST.

[Aahz]

I mean even just prior to the current events ... Scott Snyder kind of made him terrifying in that All-Star Batman "basically just a mini-series lead-up to Metal" story, but like two months later to that in a Lobdell RHATO comic Jason and Dick teamed up and kicked the crap out of him.

No it were Artemis and Bizarro who kicked his ass in RHATO.

[Claude]

Ten. You missed Raven & Starfire.

I did indeed! Lockdown has clearly affected my basic numeracy....

Ten *does* feel too many to me, but we'll see how it turns out!

(Although the solicit suggests only Donna & Gar from the NTT will actually be in TT:EW)

Yes, that's a bit odd - although, despite myself, I'm quite looking forward to EW.

Detective Comics.

Oh, really? I've not been reading - Tomasi will probably want to use Dick for that, then, anyway.

(I'm not a big Tomasi guy, but I'd be happy with that - his Secret Origins prelude to the story where Damian comes back from the dead was probably one of the best non-Morrison interactions Dick and Damian have had.)

[CTTT]

So, has Dick gotten his memory back yet or is he still Ric?