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  1. #3016
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Future State Teen Titans takes place after Future State Nightwing. I was expecting the other way around.

    I guess that explains the different costumes.

  2. #3017
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    I still think the Nightwing story sounds awful. He's whole character is going to be used to show how great the new Batman is. I really hope none of this effects his post Future State status, and I'll never understand how anyone okay'd that awful "tacticool" costume. You really would hope for better with Nicola Scott. Oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Id give Dick as a solo a break. Not that I think Titans is in any better shape, or even big on this Titans Academy idea, but kill his current series and let some of the stink wear off for a couple months. This way no one can pull the he has a solo bull with Titans. And then they have to actually use him how Titans need to use him, as the face of that franchise, and then spin off a Nightwing solo from there. We know what a Nightwing the Bat character solo looks like, but what does a Nightwing the Titans solo look like. Of course this is also dependent on DC wanting to get more serious about the Titans and improving how they present them.
    I honestly think this is the worst thing that you could do with him. In the current market where DC is cutting books and downsizing the last thing you want is to cut the exposure of a character. That is putting the character on a path to irrelevancy as there is no guarantee that his solo book will ever return, especially when you have competing characters like Jason gaining more exposure and traction. Just look at what has happened to Tim when he was moved over to just the Titans and lost his solo, or even what happened to Damian in the current Teen Titans run. It's been a disaster for them. The Titans have proven time and time again they are not some saving grace for these older Titans characters or Batman characters. Plus you still have the JL looming over the Titans just like with Batman looming over Nightwing. So that feels like a wash.

    Years before Dick even became a solo character the Titans weren't doing anything great with him. It has been decades since there was a good Dick Titans story, and the whole X-Men/Academy set up isn't going to help his character. Since in that situation Dick becomes the teacher or authority figure that the younger Titans will challenge and he'll likely get thrown under the bus for them. That is just how these things go. Since all the agency is going to be on the younger Titans. Plus in the Titans Dick gets all his personality stripped from him. He always defaults to the boring leader trope while the other characters are the ones that get to be more fun and entertaining. We've seen that enough to know it will happen again.

    His solo book has MANY problems, but at least it can occasionally produce good stories for him while the Titans have done nothing in that same span. So I'm just not willing to give it up for the Titans. The only way I'd be interested in him going back to the Titans if he was deaged and became Robin again and it focuses on their early adventures when he formed the team. Since he gains back his iconic Robin identity and the Titans can operate on their own instead of some academy setting that no longer makes it the Titans.

  3. #3018
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    That’s not really the point. The Titans book doesn’t necessarily have to do anything great with him, its just has to do enough to re-establish him as something other then just a Bat spinoff. It’s about re-expanding the Nightwing brand and trying capitalize on where Dick’s exposure is coming from right now. Dick’s current solo is a lost cause. Its not going to protect him, but prove him superfluous. It’s numbers are too far in the gutter, and its quality too consistently poor and objectionable to its own audience. It needs to end and change needs to be clear and decisive if they retry it. Otherwise the next series is just going to be ordered from where this series ends. Using Titans to launchpad his next solo series would signify that. What’s going to protect Dick is what they do with him outside of comics. And right now his opportunities outside of comics are coming from being a Titan.

    This isn’t like with Tim. With Tim DC was at odds with itself. Trying to push Tim as the face of the Titans in comics, while elsewhere no one had any interest in Tim in that position or in any position really. The idea here would be to try and leverage Dick’s position as the face of the Titans to rebrand his solo as something other then just another fledgling Bat spinoff. Because right now that isn’t working, and out of comics he has more going on as a Titan then as a Bat character. To the the point that even other Bat character are being hitched the the Titans wagon to try and gain exposer and traction.

    What’s more, in a general sense, its time Titans books stop being as bad is they are. Despite how the comics devision supports it, out of comics it’s still proving to be a viable franchise for DC. And for that reason it’s not going anywhere. So its about time their comics start seeing that and supporting it as such. Titans is bad for a lot same reasons his series is bad. They get what they give.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 11-24-2020 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #3019
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    But we have decades of stories to go off of and the Titans rehabilitating a character and then using that to launch a solo book for that character doesn't happen. There is no evidence of it. Their track record is taking a character and running them into the ground further. So for him to give up his solo book for the Titans that have produced zero good stories for him in decades I just don't see the logic in it.

    Then there is an issue with trying to make Dick the face of the Titans. He isn't Robin anymore. You can technically say that Dick is the "face" of the Titans because he founded them, but in reality Robin is. Robin is the iconic leader. It is why they tried to have Tim take over the Titans since they could still market him as Robin, even if he was Red Robin, or why Damian was given his shot at running the Titans because he was Robin. Then in most other media Robin is the leader or focus going off their animated shows or movies. Even in the live action Titans show they made sure to always have a Robin on it. Dick, Jason, and now Tim apparently is going to be on it. So there is a disconnect between the general audience who view Robin as the leader and face of the Titans and then trying to say Dick as Nightwing is the face.

    Also Bat characters aren't being hitched to the Titans to help the Bat characters. The Titans are using more and more Batman characters because the Titans are so devoid of ideas that they need the Bat characters to sustain it. So that is why they are moving the Titans to Gotham in the 3rd season, adding Babs, having Scarecrow be the big villain, having Jason become Red Hood, and possibly introducing Tim, but that live action Titans show is terrible and has lead to nothing for Dick's character being looked at any differently. It really should have just been a Nightwing show as it might have had a chance at being good, but now they kind of blew their shot at that.

  5. #3020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I still think the Nightwing story sounds awful. He's whole character is going to be used to show how great the new Batman is. I really hope none of this effects his post Future State status, and I'll never understand how anyone okay'd that awful "tacticool" costume. You really would hope for better with Nicola Scott. Oh well.
    The preview in the free DC Nation issue on Future State looked pretty good.

  6. #3021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The preview in the free DC Nation issue on Future State looked pretty good.
    Was there more than the two pages of him jumping off a building and fighting some robots? It just sucks Scott's art is wasted on something so generic. The awful costume really ruined those pages for me too. The side rib pouches look so ridiculous, haha. Just give him a belt if you want him to hold more things.

  7. #3022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Was there more than the two pages of him jumping off a building and fighting some robots? It just sucks Scott's art is wasted on something so generic. The awful costume really ruined those pages for me too. The side rib pouches look so ridiculous, haha. Just give him a belt if you want him to hold more things.
    I thought the art and Dick flowed well in the pages, but I don't hate the costume (even if it's not my favorite).

  8. #3023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought the art and Dick flowed well in the pages, but I don't hate the costume (even if it's not my favorite).
    Scott is a good artist. No matter what she draws it will flow well and look nice. It just sucks the costume is shit. Just imagine if Dick got some new costume that people were actually excited about and how much better those pages would have looked, especially after what he was running around in for 2 years as Ric. Things like Future State should be time to experiment and try more risky things. A chin strap and putting his escrima sticks on his ankles isn't going to excite anyone.

  9. #3024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Scott is a good artist. No matter what she draws it will flow well and look nice. It just sucks the costume is shit. Just imagine if Dick got some new costume that people were actually excited about and how much better those pages would have looked, especially after what he was running around in for 2 years as Ric. Things like Future State should be time to experiment and try more risky things. A chin strap and putting his escrima sticks on his ankles isn't going to excite anyone.
    I think the plot kind of defined the costume in this instance...so we get a more busy, militant, version of the Nightwing suit.

  10. #3025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the plot kind of defined the costume in this instance...so we get a more busy, militant, version of the Nightwing suit.
    I would argue both those things are a bit antithetical to Dick Grayson, but then this is shaping up to be a dark future for Dick. :/

  11. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I would argue both those things are a bit antithetical to Dick Grayson, but then this is shaping up to be a dark future for Dick. :/
    Since Teen Titans takes place afterwards and he's got different gear there, he seems to only have the militant style gear for a little while. Maybe it just fits the job that needs doing in Arkham at that time.

  12. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But we have decades of stories to go off of and the Titans rehabilitating a character and then using that to launch a solo book for that character doesn't happen. There is no evidence of it. Their track record is taking a character and running them into the ground further. So for him to give up his solo book for the Titans that have produced zero good stories for him in decades I just don't see the logic in it.

    Then there is an issue with trying to make Dick the face of the Titans. He isn't Robin anymore. You can technically say that Dick is the "face" of the Titans because he founded them, but in reality Robin is. Robin is the iconic leader. It is why they tried to have Tim take over the Titans since they could still market him as Robin, even if he was Red Robin, or why Damian was given his shot at running the Titans because he was Robin. Then in most other media Robin is the leader or focus going off their animated shows or movies. Even in the live action Titans show they made sure to always have a Robin on it. Dick, Jason, and now Tim apparently is going to be on it. So there is a disconnect between the general audience who view Robin as the leader and face of the Titans and then trying to say Dick as Nightwing is the face.

    Also Bat characters aren't being hitched to the Titans to help the Bat characters. The Titans are using more and more Batman characters because the Titans are so devoid of ideas that they need the Bat characters to sustain it. So that is why they are moving the Titans to Gotham in the 3rd season, adding Babs, having Scarecrow be the big villain, having Jason become Red Hood, and possibly introducing Tim, but that live action Titans show is terrible and has lead to nothing for Dick's character being looked at any differently. It really should have just been a Nightwing show as it might have had a chance at being good, but now they kind of blew their shot at that.
    Again, your missing the point. His solo as it is needs to end. Losing it at this point would be a benefit cause it’s just prolonging the inevitable, and digging a hole deeper and deeper. For the character’s and brands protection it needs to end. Continuing to sell the idea of the character as a bottom tier seller, on a book no creator wants to touch, is bad for the brand. But they can’t just relaunch it right after as if the market is stupid and is just going to forget the previous series. They need a stop gap. Titans can act as that stop gap. It doesn’t need to rehabilitate the character, it just needs to create time, space between his last series and the next, and remind general readers the character isn’t just a fledgling Bat spin off. Eventually using it to launch his next solo series to further reinforce that his next series isn’t just going to be the same as his last. Just cause they haven’t done it before doesn’t mean they can’t do it. Titans shouldn’t be as poorly represented and supported in comics as it is.

    Dick is already the face. They know it, the comic side just doesn’t want to embrace it unless they absolutely have to. They try with Tim and it failed, cause readers aren’t as stupid as they think, and then with Damian and that didn’t really turn out much better. Not that it had a chance given the state he inherited it in. Outside of comics they don’t even waste time with fighting it and just further undercuts the comics department. Robin and Nightwing are part of the same mythos at this point. His character arc from Robin to Nightwing represents the Titans. The live action show sees this and has made that character arc pretty much its basis so far. The disconnect seems more within DC then it is with audiences. Robin becomes Nightwing is a simple enough idea that general audiences seem to have no problem accepting.

    Titans is a hungry platform in need of more content. It’s providing exposer opportunities that are not around with Batman right now, while taking advantage of these proven concepts. It’s smart. Not letting them go to waste. The live action Titan show is a huge investment where it matters. It shows where the opportunity is right now for Dick outside of comics. As useless as the comics see it, it’s still a brand DC is wiling to invest millions into to showcase in other media. That it wasn’t just called a Nightwing show is my point. They see bigger opportunities with Titans then they do with just Nightwing. And I don’t see that changing. Rather then resent these opportunities its probably time to start embracing them and trying to use them to Dick’s benefit. So that maybe there will come a point we get the Nightwing tv show or movie.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 11-25-2020 at 11:50 AM.

  13. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Since Teen Titans takes place afterwards and he's got different gear there, he seems to only have the militant style gear for a little while. Maybe it just fits the job that needs doing in Arkham at that time.
    Why do crush and red arrow look the same if its the future?

  14. #3029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Why do crush and red arrow look the same if it’s the future?
    Coz they're supporting cast and no one care enough XD

  15. #3030
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    I don't see the problem with just ending the solo and relaunching it with a new (better) writer. It's the same deal with Titans at this point.

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