Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Godlike13]

Nothing really. She has no team and with Kori she works with both JL and Titans. We have the outerspace travel. There is far more stories to tell with Dick and Kori. I get why people like Babs and Dick they are with the Batfam and have a good dynamic but there comes a point where Babs has been the most passed around character. She been with almost ever single batfam.Many comics she is shown to be fickle person and rejects Grayson then yells at Dick for moving on. When they do her right, I love her and Dick's relationships but at times there is her fickleness and her jealous nature. That can get out of control. Since medias and elsewhere comics have Starfire/Dick dating we won't stop having people talking about Dick/Kori

There aren't necessarily more stories to tell with Dick and Kory, as Kory changes the kinds of stories they can tell with Dick. And need i bring up RHatOs. Neither are immune from bad characterizations or being passed around. Babs is just easier to slot in and out of Dick's solo life, and vice versa.

Thats why they keep it in the state they do. Like this marriage and it being unearned, it is, but at the same time its isn't cause they purposely keep their relationship in such a stop and go state. Its frustrating but that state makes things more convenient for them to pull it out when they want, and do things like "hey lets get married. Ok sure.".

[Rac7d*]

Well there seems to be a new Titans book on the way. So the question is can a good Titans book happen. If they can have that than Dick doesn't have to be tied with Batfam either. I feel Dc is doing this on purpose. That they don't want Titans to be good. They want him to be close to the Bats but he isn't just a Bat but also a Titans.The question is now what is Dick's supporting Team? Unlike Bruce or Clark. Dick has way too many changes. Who should be kept?




Nothing really. She has no team and with Kori she works with both JL and Titans. We have the outerspace travel. There is far more stories to tell with Dick and Kori. I get why people like Babs and Dick they are with the Batfam and have a good dynamic but there comes a point where Babs has been the most passed around character. She been with almost ever single batfam.Many comics she is shown to be fickle person and rejects Grayson then yells at Dick for moving on. When they do her right, I love her and Dick's relationships but at times there is her fickleness and her jealous nature. That can get out of control. Since medias and elsewhere comics have Starfire/Dick dating we won't stop having people talking about Dick/Kori

Nothing really, Babs accession to Oracle makes priceless resource to Batman, JL, Titans the BOP. She on many teams. starfire only last decade had any kind of affiliation with the justice league. Her only progression seem to be from hero to den mother for the next crop of titans. Has starfire ever made significant relationship with anyone aside from Dick. Briefly with Roy, who is now deceased. But even he has played the field between Cheshire and Donna Troy.

[Restingvoice]

25 years? I thought for sure Dick and Star had something going on at one point in the 2008-2011 Titans series

They screw each other under the influence of the return of Trigon but I don't remember anything beyond that first issue

[Frontier]

I'm definitely not against the idea, between Kori and Babs I've always been team Kori. Babs and Dick are just....bad for each other, their relationship usually makes him end up looking irresponsible and/or immature and her looking like a control freak with commitment issues.

I like Dick and Babs but it's become too much of a constant will they/won't they thing with no development and no real satisfying reason for them to just not be together, so I'm fine with giving that a break.

Giving some love to DickxKori comics-wise would just feel refreshing.

That is honestly the last thing I'd want. The Starfire romance was just as or probably even more toxic than the current Babs one when they last dated, but for some reason people act like that wasn't the case? I guess other media really overwrites what people remember of their in comic romance, but it was really bad at times. Plus I already dislike how tied down Dick is to the Titans as a franchise. I wish Dick was allowed to move on to other teams in the comics instead of constantly being dragged back to the Titans mess all the time, but that is a separate issue.

Although more than anything I just don't think Starfire is a very good character that offers much utility for stories. You can't really tell more grounded stories when Dick is dating an orange alien with fire for hair and superpowers. You are incredibly limited with what you can do and there is a reason you don't see romances like that in comics very often. Just have Starfire date Cyborg or something where they can at least be stuck in the Titans together maybe. I thought Odyssey was setting that up but it never happened, or just have her date Roy again given how "in love" they were according to Lobdell, lol.

I've never seen the relationship as perfect, but it's one I enjoy and I think it would be nice to see it in a new modern light in the comics, but that's just me.

[AmiMizuno]

Nothing really, Babs accession to Oracle makes priceless resource to Batman, JL, Titans the BOP. She on many teams. starfire only last decade had any kind of affiliation with the justice league. Her only progression seem to be from hero to den mother for the next crop of titans. Has starfire ever made significant relationship with anyone aside from Dick. Briefly with Roy, who is now deceased. But even he has played the field between Cheshire and Donna Troy.

Depends really. I mean the Titans already have tech people. So Oracle really isn't needed. The same with JL they don't need Oracle unless the plot needs her. So it doesn't really need to be said yes Babs is smart but there are people already on a team that can also do the same job

[AmiMizuno]

That is honestly the last thing I'd want. The Starfire romance was just as or probably even more toxic than the current Babs one when they last dated, but for some reason people act like that wasn't the case? I guess other media really overwrites what people remember of their in comic romance, but it was really bad at times. Plus I already dislike how tied down Dick is to the Titans as a franchise. I wish Dick was allowed to move on to other teams in the comics instead of constantly being dragged back to the Titans mess all the time, but that is a separate issue.

Although more than anything I just don't think Starfire is a very good character that offers much utility for stories. You can't really tell more grounded stories when Dick is dating an orange alien with fire for hair and superpowers. You are incredibly limited with what you can do and there is a reason you don't see romances like that in comics very often. Just have Starfire date Cyborg or something where they can at least be stuck in the Titans together maybe. I thought Odyssey was setting that up but it never happened, or just have her date Roy again given how "in love" they were according to Lobdell, lol.

That's not true if you can have Steve in many good stories date Diana you can have Dick dating Kori. That's a poor excuse. A good writer can make almost anything work. I mean we have big barb and Mister miracle. So it's not like Kori is off the Table. Also we have the issue of Babs just having DIck being more closer to the Batfam. We shouldn't have Dick be close all the time. With the Titans well that's what made him Nightwing. Plus JL already has Batman so they aren't going to have Dick be on JL. I mean he is more tied now to the Batfam than everything. They have taken Dick out of the Titans many times but never out of the Batfam.Starfire has had good development but things got worst when the wedding arc happened. That's the moment her character started taking a fall. If the JL can make Batman work with fighting with an alien. Than there is no reason Kori and Dick can be a couple. We also have the fact that allowed more Space Stories and a few others. Almost any good writer can make the weirdest things work. Even when they can make this.

Also her hair isn't fire. It's just regular hair. It can look like fire but that's more of energy coming from her. It's never been fire.I guess it's more of her appearance? That's not the first weird character appearance. The fact we have seen their romance can work in other media. It's not impossible. The other point to say that Both Babs and Kori really can work if you give the right writer. The whole there aren't much stories is a lie has there are comics that make the most silly things work. Babs is isolated and Dc doesn't know what to do or rather they hate her. If anything a actually love interest is needed it. We just need someone who isn't a batfam or a Titan. Someone else. Maybe being back Shawn? I'm just tired of keeping it in the family or Starfire. I know I defended her. But I love broth girls but also hate them in a sense of maybe it’s time to move on from both. Clearly Dc wants Dick to have a messy love life. So it’s best for him to be single.

[WonderNight]

I,ve been saying for a while that nightwing needs to become something different. Something not bat or titan, not babs or kori. But something new and different.

[AmiMizuno]

I mean in a way he has to be a paradox. For he is all of these things and not at the same times. We can’t ignore that the titans are his second home. He is willing to help his family and friends. There has to be a way to keep them while also showing he doesn’t always need to be great with the Babs or Titans. This so why I kind of want him to be single no more will they won’t they no
More Kori or babs just ignore any new girlfriend. While I want Babs or Kori. Or a new love interest. I think right now maybe Dick should be single for a bit. Maybe for now here is what we have him due. Maybe have him be a private detective using his Nightwing skills to travel the global. He did use Harley Circus has a cover to stop uncovered superhero crime ring. Why not that. We can still have from time to time his friends and family meeting but not often. We have him on his own for a while

[Avi]

DickBabs just exhausts me at this point in time. The last time they were written well was in the Convergence mini by Simone. And Seeley did a decent job, I guess.

DickKory has gathered a lot of goodwill mostly through other media but their few interactions in the Starfire solo and now JL have been far more satisfying to me than what they decided to do with Dick and Babs in recent times, which makes it into less of a trainwreck to me.

That being said I think the relationships work better when they are platonic. Or DC could finally make a real triangle out of them, ya know?

I too don't want any love interest for a while. All they do is take away from the story. If there even is a story. But before Seeley booted that possibility out in one of his Issues, I thought Helena and Dick would have made a good couple. Not as end goal but as a "the one who got away" type. And yes I am totally biased. Nightwing/Huntress is the first comic book I read.

If there is a solo after FS I hope the writer decides to bring some supporting cast back instead of reinventing the wheel. Who ever mandated that Rebirth had to bring Blüdhaven back never understood that Blüdhaven only lives through its characters. It's not like Gotham. Blüdhaven has no unique landmarks.

[WonderNight]

Im not saying titans and batman shouldn't be second homes for dick, im saying they shouldn't be his first. Let the nightwing solo go a few years of world building without any batman or titans. Let Dick's solo stand own his own alot more or hell as crowded as the batfamily is just send im to another franchise. Dick's all about change right.

[Badou]

I've never seen the relationship as perfect, but it's one I enjoy and I think it would be nice to see it in a new modern light in the comics, but that's just me.

Maybe you can blame the era the stories were written in, but the relationship was really toxic. Approaching that X-Men Jean/Scott levels of toxic, haha. I know everyone points to that whole marriage story, but it was rough. Starfire marrying and sleeping with the other guy and Dick going into fits of intense rage and deep depression. Then other times where Dick gets super angry at her and is written like an asshole, and then in other situation where Dick was kind of raped by someone pretending to be Starfire and the real Starfire gets super angry at Dick for it. It was a lot. I get that hyper drama was more in style back then, but it really left a bad impression on me. Overall though I'm just over romances in general or if I had to pick then I'd prefer something new from the ground up with an already established hero.

That's not true if you can have Steve in many good stories date Diana you can have Dick dating Kori. That's a poor excuse. A good writer can make almost anything work. I mean we have big barb and Mister miracle. So it's not like Kori is off the Table. Also we have the issue of Babs just having DIck being more closer to the Batfam. We shouldn't have Dick be close all the time. With the Titans well that's what made him Nightwing. Plus JL already has Batman so they aren't going to have Dick be on JL. I mean he is more tied now to the Batfam than everything. They have taken Dick out of the Titans many times but never out of the Batfam.Starfire has had good development but things got worst when the wedding arc happened. That's the moment her character started taking a fall. If the JL can make Batman work with fighting with an alien. Than there is no reason Kori and Dick can be a couple. We also have the fact that allowed more Space Stories and a few others. Almost any good writer can make the weirdest things work. Even when they can make this.

The difference between Diana/Steve and Dick/Starfire is that Diana looks like a normal human. So she can blend into normal human society. Same with Clark and Lois. It allows them to be written into more normal situations. With Starfire she is an alien and looks like an alien so you can't really treat it the same. You rarely see romances between normal humans and super powered aliens that look non-human in stories from Marvel or DC now. I can barely think of any, and most of the ones I can are generally not set on Earth. I think it is because they are very difficult and limiting to write. With Barda and Mister Miracle they are both aliens/New Gods, so there is no real issue with them together.

I think Starfire works best flying around in space, but I don't really have any interest in reading stories about Dick in space. With how DC uses Nightwing it makes no sense for him to be in space. Then in more grounded stories that Dick works better in I don't think Starfire is really suited for them. So there is this big conflict with them together and makes a relationship difficult to write in my opinion. Then if you asked me to choose between the Batman or Titans franchises for Dick to be more apart of then I'm always pick the Batman one because of how low of an opinion I have of the Titans in the comics. I don't think Dick's generation of Titans has been written well in a Titans book since the 80s, so I don't have much desire to see him more dependent on them. But that is just how I feel about the franchise. I get that others feel it isn't a complete disaster.

Also her hair isn't fire. It's just regular hair. It can look like fire but that's more of energy coming from her. It's never been fire.I guess it's more of her appearance? That's not the first weird character appearance. The fact we have seen their romance can work in other media. It's not impossible. The other point to say that Both Babs and Kori really can work if you give the right writer. The whole there aren't much stories is a lie has there are comics that make the most silly things work. Babs is isolated and Dc doesn't know what to do or rather they hate her. If anything a actually love interest is needed it. We just need someone who isn't a batfam or a Titan. Someone else. Maybe being back Shawn? I'm just tired of keeping it in the family or Starfire. I know I defended her. But I love broth girls but also hate them in a sense of maybe it’s time to move on from both. Clearly Dc wants Dick to have a messy love life. So it’s best for him to be single.

I guess it just depends on the artist. Sometimes it is drawn like it is on fire and other times it isn't, but my point is that it is very obviously non-human looking. I personally have no interest in either Babs or Starfire. I have no real interest in any romances for Dick anymore and am fine with him just being on his own.

Now if you ask me about what I want from a romance then I'd want something fresh with an already established hero. No more original characters, civilians, or past relationships revisited. There is too much baggage with Babs and Starfire to start fresh with them which is another reason I am not interested in revisiting them. I really enjoy the early parts of a romance in a story with the two getting to know each other, romantic tension, flirting, and the early dating process. You can't really have that with Babs or Starfire with all their history. I really enjoyed the slow development with Helena in the Grayson series. Something like that is more what I'd want. With her and Dick getting to know each other for the first time since the reboot and slowly growing closer over the course of the series. It just sucks that the series had a rushed ending with the writers leaving early where all that nice development was lost.

[AmiMizuno]

I see your point. While I do like Babs and Kori. I do think we should have another love interest for a while. Just not right now. Let Dick be single for a while. So you think Helena is a good choice? I think one of the reasons people don't want that is she is technically Helena Wayne his sisters. I mean yes and no since she is from another earth. Also aren’t there like a few ways Helena doesn’t even have to be a Wayne. I know they did it a few times

Yea Statfire’s hair isn’t fair just an artist choice when she uses her powers to make it look that way. But I get it she looks too not human. All I’m using a good writer can make anything work. But I do think maybe we should just have him be single. If people want Babs or Dick maybe elsewhere comic series is for the best.

[Ascended]

I like Dick and Babs but it's become too much of a constant will they/won't they thing with no development and no real satisfying reason for them to just not be together, so I'm fine with giving that a break.

Giving some love to DickxKori comics-wise would just feel refreshing.

Anything that gets Dick out of that Gotham style street level mold would be refreshing at this point. And I don't disagree; it's been a long time since Dick and Kori were in a relationship and it'd be nice to see a modern spin on that. I will never *not* support that idea, if the choice is between Kori and Babs....or Huntress, Tarantula, or any of the forgettable women who have dated Dick Grayson for a few issues.

But I think what would be even *more* refreshing is a legitimate effort to develop and explore new love interests for all three characters, something more than just some original, throwaway character that'll never last beyond the writer's time on the comic. Y'all know how I am about Power Girl and Nightwing, but in all seriousness a concerted, *real* effort to move everyone's love life forward, instead of recycling stories we've been reading for decades, would be something *truly* novel and refreshing.

[Frontier]

Maybe you can blame the era the stories were written in, but the relationship was really toxic. Approaching that X-Men Jean/Scott levels of toxic, haha. I know everyone points to that whole marriage story, but it was rough. Starfire marrying and sleeping with the other guy and Dick going into fits of intense rage and deep depression. Then other times where Dick gets super angry at her and is written like an asshole, and then in other situation where Dick was kind of raped by someone pretending to be Starfire and the real Starfire gets super angry at Dick for it. It was a lot. I get that hyper drama was more in style back then, but it really left a bad impression on me. Overall though I'm just over romances in general or if I had to pick then I'd prefer something new from the ground up with an already established hero.

Again, not denying the relationship had problems and overwrought emotional drama as it went along, but I still really got invested in it. Ditto Dick and Babs.

(Of course, I also like Scott and Jean together, so...)

I think Starfire works best flying around in space, but I don't really have any interest in reading stories about Dick in space. With how DC uses Nightwing it makes no sense for him to be in space. Then in more grounded stories that Dick works better in I don't think Starfire is really suited for them. So there is this big conflict with them together and makes a relationship difficult to write in my opinion. Then if you asked me to choose between the Batman or Titans franchises for Dick to be more apart of then I'm always pick the Batman one because of how low of an opinion I have of the Titans in the comics. I don't think Dick's generation of Titans has been written well in a Titans book since the 80s, so I don't have much desire to see him more dependent on them. But that is just how I feel about the franchise. I get that others feel it isn't a complete disaster.

Starfire is never going to be stuck in space, though. She's a cosmic character but she's generally depicted as being on Earth where the action happens.

Personally I want Dick to be part of both the Batman and Titans franchises.

Now if you ask me about what I want from a romance then I'd want something fresh with an already established hero. No more original characters, civilians, or past relationships revisited. There is too much baggage with Babs and Starfire to start fresh with them which is another reason I am not interested in revisiting them. I really enjoy the early parts of a romance in a story with the two getting to know each other, romantic tension, flirting, and the early dating process. You can't really have that with Babs or Starfire with all their history. I really enjoyed the slow development with Helena in the Grayson series. Something like that is more what I'd want. With her and Dick getting to know each other for the first time since the reboot and slowly growing closer over the course of the series. It just sucks that the series had a rushed ending with the writers leaving early where all that nice development was lost.

I just miss the old Helena.

Anything that gets Dick out of that Gotham style street level mold would be refreshing at this point. And I don't disagree; it's been a long time since Dick and Kori were in a relationship and it'd be nice to see a modern spin on that. I will never *not* support that idea, if the choice is between Kori and Babs....or Huntress, Tarantula, or any of the forgettable women who have dated Dick Grayson for a few issues.

But I think what would be even *more* refreshing is a legitimate effort to develop and explore new love interests for all three characters, something more than just some original, throwaway character that'll never last beyond the writer's time on the comic. Y'all know how I am about Power Girl and Nightwing, but in all seriousness a concerted, *real* effort to move everyone's love life forward, instead of recycling stories we've been reading for decades, would be something *truly* novel and refreshing.

I don't mind Dick in Gotham, but that's beside the point .

I think the problem is that writers have tried to invest in original love interests for all three of them and it just hasn't worked in the long-term. Babs has now had a slew of forgettable boyfriends and Kori had...Roy and that police officer's brother from her solo book? I don't think the writers weren't trying to do a genuine romantic development, it just didn't make any sizeable impact (as has been the case with most of Dick's love interests that aren't Babs, Kori, or even Helena).

[AmiMizuno]

If Starfire would be a love interest it's not hard for her to always be in his comics. Like she is modeling so she isn't going to help him fight crime and a titan. There is also the question outside who would Starfire be friends with outside of Dick and Titan's? She also has to have her own life. With them giving her own cast that's just has important