Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Mr. White]

I agree. I 100% agree. This is why I kind of time issue with him having romantic relationships with Babs. Ot kind of ties him more to Bruce’s side. Anyone the most important thing is when makes a global traveling hero. Where does he get the money? A PI or Circus? Or maybe working as a stuntman?

His working for Spyral was good. I mean it's like asking where Bond gets his money.
That said I do get you and because of Bendis and Event Leviathan (another muck up in my view), a job will be necessary.
The only issue is a job often requires you to stay in one place.

If any of you were the editor for Nightwing would you limit how often he appeara in Batman events? I wouldn’t mind if he and Bruce would hanging out or something simple. It’s just that they often use Dick since he is more skilled.

"Yes. Yes. A Hundred Times Yes."
Funnily enough I would be more ok with Bruce showing up now and again. Just not Batman.
Dick's interaction with the BatFam in their civvies is tolerable.

[Godlike13]

I said this before about Titans, but same is true for Batman. When they are cultivating readers to want Dick nowhere near Batman they are obviously doing something very wrong. And it’s not like like readers are wrong to want that, thats just a testament to how destructive the situation they created is. Somthing is very wrong when the character’s relationship to franchises like Batman and Titans are fairly being viewed as destructive to character by fans.

[AmiMizuno]

If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?

[Rac7d*]

Happy birthday dick grayson

[Ascended]

If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?

It all stays canon. Some stuff (like Ric) would just never be mentioned ever again. But I'm not interested in doing a story all about how other stories suddenly didn't happen. That just reminds everyone how awful those stories were, and those are issues that could be dedicated to telling good stories instead of telling us how to pretend the bad ones never existed. Just ignore the stuff you don't want to deal with, don't shine a light on it while you tell readers to do what they're already going to do (ignore the bad stories). Retcons and reboots are a horrible idea 99.99% of the time, and it's not at all necessary for Dick.

As for rules?

Dick gets treated as a solo character first, Bat adjunct second, Bat sidekick never. His book does not get derailed for someone else's title or story. A crossover is fine, if there's a good reason for Dick to be involved, but sh*t like what King pulled? Never again.

Nightwing no longer is forced to be Bat-lite. He gets developed into his own kind of character and hero, no longer forced to follow Bruce's blueprint. And whatever he gets developed into better be unique and different and offer something other DC books don't.

He gets his emblem. I love the chevron as much as the next guy, but he needs a logo that can be sold on merchandise so the bird emblem that has been used in some larger media stuff (such as on Young Justice) gets brought in as a permanent part of his visual.

Past that? It'd largely be up to the creators to develop Nightwing. I have my own ideas of course, but as a hypothetical editor it's not my job to write the stories, just to help the creators tell their's in the best ways possible.

If I'm being honest, I'd probably try to push the Power Girl-Nightwing ship I'm such a fan of, but getting Dick onto solid ground he can call his own, and away from being nothing more than a sidekick for Batman, comes first.

[AmiMizuno]

Happy birthday dick grayson

Doesn’t he have multiple birthdays technically?


Also what’s woth the PG and Nightwing relationship? When did they get pair up?

[Ascended]

Also what’s woth the PG and Nightwing relationship? When did they get pair up?

They never have. They've only actually interacted a handful of times (and flirted a bit during those interactions but nothing more serious than that).

I got on this whole thing because I don't want Dick with Babs *or* Kori. I don't think those dynamics and relationships work anymore. I'd rather see all three move forward with their lives and I don't think, from the business or creative sides of things, either relationship benefits those involved either.

So I figure it's time for a new ship. And while thinking of women who would fit the role, who would both be a benefit to Dick and benefit from being with him, Power Girl's name ended up at the top of my list. I have a ton of reasons, and have written long posts going over them a bunch of times so I won't bore everyone with them yet again. You can find my little essays in the old relationship and appreciation threads, or if you're really curious and actually care about my reasoning I can PM you.

All that said, there isn't much on the page to support it. They have only hung out a few times, after all. But I maintain that this would be good for both Dick and Karen Starr and even if they haven't hung out much in the past, everything has to start somewhere.

[Aahz]

If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?

I wouldn't limit the crossovers, I like if you have some interaction between the different Batman characters. Back in the Dixon Era you had the charcters frequently show up in each others books, and that was imo the best era for the Batfamily.

The problem is, that the cross overs were often really poorly done past year. You have often the feeling that they put jut all the character in the event to have the complete set, but don't really have something to do for most of them.
Then the characters are often terribly written and what happens is often not in line with what happens in their own book, and sometimes they are just used to prop up the villain or another Batfamily member.

As a fan of Jason Todd I have now reached a point where I'm usually relieved if he is not in a cross over, and that shouldn't be the case (with Dick is is not that bad since there is imo roughly a 50% chance that he is treated decent in a cross over).

[AmiMizuno]

Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.

[Restingvoice]

Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part, Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.

Once a year is fine.
They've pretty much been fine these past years. Unless Bruce is being sulky they're respectful and helpful... Before someone asks, I always discount Ric arc... Even when he's sulky these days he doesn't punch anymore, just "hmm". That's acceptable for an introvert. That's normal.

[Ascended]

Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.

A full crossover, where the plots intersect, once every 18-24 months is enough, since it usually takes six issues for a single story these days. A simple guest cameo where someone stops by to visit for a single issue and doesn't derail the story? As much as makes sense really, as long as it's not every issue.

I'd prefer for Dick and Bruce to be on relatively good terms. I think they likely disagree on plenty, and Dick could be used to voice the same concerns and counter-arguments Superman is sometimes used for, but I'd like to see Bruce and Dick move beyond their troubled past and, for the most part, get along relatively well. I want to see Dick call Bruce out on his bullsh*t, but I don't want to see them throwing punches at each other either.

[Mr. White]

It all stays canon. Some stuff (like Ric) would just never be mentioned ever again. But I'm not interested in doing a story all about how other stories suddenly didn't happen. That just reminds everyone how awful those stories were, and those are issues that could be dedicated to telling good stories instead of telling us how to pretend the bad ones never existed. Just ignore the stuff you don't want to deal with, don't shine a light on it while you tell readers to do what they're already going to do (ignore the bad stories). Retcons and reboots are a horrible idea 99.99% of the time, and it's not at all necessary for Dick.

As for rules?

Dick gets treated as a solo character first, Bat adjunct second, Bat sidekick never. His book does not get derailed for someone else's title or story. A crossover is fine, if there's a good reason for Dick to be involved, but sh*t like what King pulled? Never again.

Nightwing no longer is forced to be Bat-lite. He gets developed into his own kind of character and hero, no longer forced to follow Bruce's blueprint. And whatever he gets developed into better be unique and different and offer something other DC books don't.

He gets his emblem. I love the chevron as much as the next guy, but he needs a logo that can be sold on merchandise so the bird emblem that has been used in some larger media stuff (such as on Young Justice) gets brought in as a permanent part of his visual.

Past that? It'd largely be up to the creators to develop Nightwing. I have my own ideas of course, but as a hypothetical editor it's not my job to write the stories, just to help the creators tell their's in the best ways possible.

If I'm being honest, I'd probably try to push the Power Girl-Nightwing ship I'm such a fan of, but getting Dick onto solid ground he can call his own, and away from being nothing more than a sidekick for Batman, comes first.

Pretty much agree with this. Well like 99.99%.
Crossovers? Never.
General premise? Graysonesque. Meaning globetrotting adventures, though not entirely of what the "Core" premise will be.
Relationship? Either a civilian or an agent of something. Think a Sasha Bordeaux. Anyway, not a cape.
Homebase? Something similar to Metropolis. Essentially somewhere bright.
Guest stars? 1 every 12-15 issues.

[AmiMizuno]

Now skills. Often Dc has downplayed his abilities many times. What skills have they downplayed or just forgot about? What are his skills? What are his strengths and weakness?

[Aahz]

A full crossover, where the plots intersect, once every 18-24 months is enough, since it usually takes six issues for a single story these days. A simple guest cameo where someone stops by to visit for a single issue and doesn't derail the story? As much as makes sense really, as long as it's not every issue.

Yeah I think that's what I would go for, too.

Now skills. Often Dc has downplayed his abilities many times. What skills have they downplayed or just forgot about? What are his skills? What are his strengths and weakness?

I his stand out skill are acrobatics and leader ship (which is of course not that usable in a solo book), what they to often downplay are his detective skills and his ability to plan things.
Weakness is hard to say Batfamily members are usually pretty good at everything, based on older comics I would claim that he is really bad at coping with failures.

What they should ditch is this "improvising Swashbuckler" stuff (like in the Agent 37 Story from the Robin 80th Anniversary Book), thats imo as annoying as Tim taking down villains by pushing buttons and makes no sense when at the same time other Batfamily members are said to be to reckless.

[Ascended]

I definitely think "women" are a weakness for Dick. Not that he'd let a girl escape justice just because she bats her eyelashes at him or anything, but he definitely lowers his guard and lets himself get pulled into the plight of the bad girls.

He also lets himself get swept up easily in the emotion of the moment. How many times have we seen him go to have a serious talk with Kori and they just end up in bed? He sort of unknowingly misleads people at times because he stops thinking about "later" and just focuses on "right now."

He definitely struggles with guilt sometimes. We tend to think of Dick as the happy and well adjusted person in the Cave, but that dude can brood and angst with the best of them when he wants to.

I dunno if I'd call it a "weakness," but Dick has developed some serious wanderlust over the years too. Guy moves around quite a bit, constantly changes jobs, etc. I know this is less the intentional development of his character and more a result of DC yanking him around, but intentional or not the end result is the same.