Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[dietrich]

Dick is insanely popular both with Comic readers and casuals which is what makes his treatment baffling.

[Ascended]

If it's not a personal bias on the part of administration I can only assume DC's total lack of effort with Nightwing is that they're afraid he'll somehow dig into Batman profits, like if they give us a proper Nightwing being as awesome as he should be, no one will bother reading Detective anymore.

I've rolled this around with standard business theory more than a person who isn't employed by DC should, and I can't think of any reason for DC to be so Dickphobic.

[Godlike13]

I don’t know if they are Dickphobic, but there is something going on. Cause they still technically publish him, and have for a long time, but they do it in ways that pretty much guarantee what they produced with him can only go so far.
And Ric has gone on longer then it would on any other character. For something they struggled to even launch, and is so blatantly not working, to be going on as long as it is. Something is definitely up. His title is at all time lows, fan sentiment is at all time lows, while his other media profile is larger then it has been maybe ever. Something is very wrong here.

[Ascended]

I don’t know if they are Dickphobic, but there is something going on. Cause they still technically publish him, and have for a long time, but they do it in ways that pretty much guarantee what they produced with him can only go so far.
And Ric has gone on longer then it would on any other character. For something they struggled to even lunch, and is so blatantly not working, to be going on as long as it is. Something is definitely up. His title is at all time lows, fan sentiment is at all time lows, while his other media profile is larger then it has been maybe ever. Something is very wrong here.

Exactly. And I hate to be one of those "Didio is the devil!" people. I tend to really dislike it when fans point fingers and lay blame on a creator or manager just because the product isn't what they personally wanted, or something didn't turn out right. I've worked in the art field and I know that this is alchemy, not science, and the best looking ideas on paper don't always translate to real-world success. So I hate being one of the guys who blames Didio and says he's got a personal bias that is getting in the way of basic business and DC's revenue stream.

But no matter how hard I try or how many ways I twist stuff around, I can't think of any other reason for Dick's situation. And I don't work in publishing or DC so there's tons of stuff particular to this industry and this company that I don't know. And maybe there's a really good business reason for all of this hidden in there. I'm in business but every company and industry has their own quirks, yknow? But really.....given what I do know, the only answer that makes any sense is that Didio and/or whoever green lights this stuff, has a personal bias that is getting in the way and seemingly costing DC a lot of potential profit. I suspect that if comic sales were worth noticing at all, then WB (and now AT&T) would put a stop to it. But comics sales are so minor nobody notices or cares.

[AmiMizuno]

The thing it's a Dido thing. He wanted Dick to be killed off. So I feel this might be one reason. Another thing is who the editor is. If Dick can get either his own or into another editor it would probably help him more. I think one reason why comic sales are somewhat low is the fact we have less places to get it. I mean comic sales are slowly increasing. With the help of kid comics and the fact more and more schools are using comics to teach comics to read. This can help bring new readers.

[Restingvoice]

Oh right. The editor changed. The good one was fired because he fought King on using David Finch wasn't it

[Ascended]

The thing it's a Dido thing. He wanted Dick to be killed off. So I feel this might be one reason. Another thing is who the editor is. If Dick can get either his own or into another editor it would probably help him more. I think one reason why comic sales are somewhat low is the fact we have less places to get it. I mean comic sales are slowly increasing. With the help of kid comics and the fact more and more schools are using comics to teach comics to read. This can help bring new readers.

Yeah, we know for a fact that Didio personally isn't a Nightwing fan since he's said as much several times on social media and in interviews and at conventions. But that shouldn't be enough to cause this sort of trouble; any moron of a businessman can recognize that even if a product isn't to their personal liking, it can still appeal to plenty of others. And Nightwing is pretty proven to be successful across media formats, with successful showings in.....basically everything. He's virtually one bad CW show away from being on the Flash or GL level of A-list.

The editor is an issue as well, but how much of an issue depends on whether the higher-ups are leaning on the Bat office, and how hard. A lot of this crap might start and stop with the Bat office, and moving Dick somewhere else (like the Super office for example) might be a great move for the character. But if higher level management are forcing this treatment then nothing changes. If this is Didio pushing his own bias then he'll lean on whatever editor has control of Dick and the end result will be largely the same.

Now, if we could get Dick under an editor or creator with enough pull to do what they want, that likely solves the problem. If King or Bendis or Snyder decide they want to make Nightwing the biggest gods damn thing DC has ever seen, Didio's most likely going to let them; he wants those creators to be happy.

Odd as it may sound, I really really wish we could get Dick into the Super office. I feel like his best chances right now are with Bendis (of all people).

But we've said all this and made the same complaints for years! So here's a question:

What's your favorite piece of Nightwing merchandise? Whether you own it or not?

[L.H.]

The thing it's a Dido thing. He wanted Dick to be killed off. So I feel this might be one reason. Another thing is who the editor is. If Dick can get either his own or into another editor it would probably help him more. I think one reason why comic sales are somewhat low is the fact we have less places to get it. I mean comic sales are slowly increasing. With the help of kid comics and the fact more and more schools are using comics to teach comics to read. This can help bring new readers.

I can't totally blame Didio. He wanted to kill Dick, but also allowed Morrison to make him Batman. Whatever happened to the Titans, was planned togheter with King, and King didn't want Dick in his City Of Bane (i don't believe what he said about the fix, he lied before).
Now Tynion wants Dick back, so he will came back. That's all.
Didio fault is keeping Nightwing as a Batman sideckick book, where everything that's happening is because of the main Batman title (since New52). That's what I blame him for.

[Godlike13]

I don't know how much it has to do with the state of DC in general. Like Lobdell being given the book, and being able to campaign, says Harras to me. The old guard at DC in general seems to have a problem with Nightwing, or just don't care. Guys like Lobdell and Jurgan's should not be go to guys anymore for anything. Unless they purposely want a book to sell out of the top 100. But somehow they keep managing to land books like Nightwing and Flash Forward. My guess is priory seem to be 5G, and so books like Nightwing they are happy to let just be fodder for guys like Lobdell and Jurgans. Despite the new character lows month after month.

[dietrich]

DC seems to be an Old boys club. Stuff like King being able to get an editor ousted, Bendis and having so much creative control despite his sales being mediocre. Tynion being able to land a Bat title due to Synder. It seems to be who you know rather than merit and if characters don't have someone with a seat at this club fighting for them then they get misused.

I don't know how they check performance or keep track of how characters are performing and decide where to invest resources but they are clearly overlooking a lot. So many characters/IP's could be maximised/have the potential to be developed into something stronger and more competitive not just the Nightwing Brand but they are been wasted.

[Godlike13]

Bendis brings in other talent though and such. So I get him having influence. To a point at least. They have to try to get a return on that investment.

[dietrich]

Bendis brings in other talent though and such. So I get him having influence. To a point at least. They have to try to get a return on that investment.

Does he? I wasn't aware. What other talent has he brought in and wouldn't DC be able to land talent on their own?

[Godlike13]

Fraction, some artists, etc.

[Frontier]

He lost his virginity in college to a girl who already has a boyfriend if I remember correctly. Nightwing Year One?
Don't know about the second girl.

He lost his virginity to Liu when he was 16. Marv Wolfman created her during his Nightwing run specifically for that reason. In the end, she was using him to have access to WayneTech.

Yeah, I'd kind of prefer his First being Kori.

[Restingvoice]

I can't totally blame Didio. He wanted to kill Dick, but also allowed Morrison to make him Batman. Whatever happened to the Titans, was planned togheter with King, and King didn't want Dick in his City Of Bane (i don't believe what he said about the fix, he lied before).
Now Tynion wants Dick back, so he will came back. That's all.
Didio fault is keeping Nightwing as a Batman sideckick book, where everything that's happening is because of the main Batman title (since New52). That's what I blame him for.

He allowed Morrison to make Dick Batman because he allowed any writer with a good reputation to do anything.

He allowed Morrison to basically keep his New 52 Superman a secret to the point where George Perez has to scramble writing present-day New 52 Superman because he wasn't told anything, and eventually quit because of it.
He allowed King to fight an editor and win, take advantage of the whole BatCat marriage stunt, Heroes in Crisis stunt, 25 issues of Depressed Batman stunt, Ric Grayson stunt (even though it's Didio himself who invited the Nightwing writer who later quit)
He allowed Bendis to come in and basically trash the Super Family Tomasi and Jurgens have been building so he can make his own Legion of Superheroes.

...

Disclaimer, I don't know if it's actually Didio or someone else, but someone allowed all those things because they trust their star writers too much. I'm sorry, I got triggered remembering the number of times they let these people just do anything they like.