Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[AmiMizuno]

I don't know how to feel about Soyal since Batman already has a good amount of tech to get info. That and Dick can just use other people in the Batfam. We really need a reason for him. He can also use TT

[Ascended]

First off, McDaniel is *still* the best Nightwing artist, I think. Man that guy's work back in the day just blew my mind. I'd spend hours pouring over his panels. His sense of motion was virtually unrivaled in American comics back then, I think. Him and Ramos were the "go to" artists if you needed something that really popped.

As for Dick's connections to Bruce....they need to be there. Bruce is a big part of Dick's history and life. Dick *is* a Bat. And DC would be foolish to forget that; Batman's status can (and has) helped elevate Nightwing's profile.

The problem we have, and we've all talked about this for years now, is that DC isn't letting Dick be *more* than a Bat, and they're not letting him be *more* than Bruce's sidekick. But Nightwing can and should still retain his heritage and history. That just shouldn't be *all* he is. Dick can be a Bat and also be an independent hero with his own vibe and his own narrative. DC just has to stop treating the guy like a sidekick who happens to have a solo. They just have to admit that there's more of importance to Dick than Gotham, and lean into his whole history instead of pretending that only the Gotham stuff mattered.

[AmiMizuno]

First off, McDaniel is *still* the best Nightwing artist, I think. Man that guy's work back in the day just blew my mind. I'd spend hours pouring over his panels. His sense of motion was virtually unrivaled in American comics back then, I think. Him and Ramos were the "go to" artists if you needed something that really popped.

As for Dick's connections to Bruce....they need to be there. Bruce is a big part of Dick's history and life. Dick *is* a Bat. And DC would be foolish to forget that; Batman's status can (and has) helped elevate Nightwing's profile.

The problem we have, and we've all talked about this for years now, is that DC isn't letting Dick be *more* than a Bat, and they're not letting him be *more* than Bruce's sidekick. But Nightwing can and should still retain his heritage and history. That just shouldn't be *all* he is. Dick can be a Bat and also be an independent hero with his own vibe and his own narrative. DC just has to stop treating the guy like a sidekick who happens to have a solo. They just have to admit that there's more of importance to Dick than Gotham, and lean into his whole history instead of pretending that only the Gotham stuff mattered.

Agreed. In a sense I always wonder what kind of rules should be for writing Dick. I get people hate Dick having a city. But I do think it can work. The issue is more things would have to be different. Does he need a Gordon? No, maybe he has his own network.

[WonderNight]

100% man. Like I'm not asking for dick to be disconnected form the bat franchise. Only that he could and should be alot more than that. Dick's a bat yes, but at this point he should be a DCU character first and bat second.

Nightwing's growth will come when he's more independent from batman (not disconnected) and more connected to the DCU.

[qwazer07]

Scrappy doo ? How old are you ?

My age doesn't matter. LOL. Nightwing is badass. That's what matters.

[Light of Justice]

Agreed. In a sense I always wonder what kind of rules should be for writing Dick. I get people hate Dick having a city. But I do think it can work. The issue is more things would have to be different. Does he need a Gordon? No, maybe he has his own network.

When he became police officer in Bludhaven, I think that's the best opportunity to give Dick his own Gordon, like he gets close to commissioner of Bludhaven and secretly encourages him to work together with Nightwing. Sad that his days as police officer didn't last long...

[Ascended]

Agreed. In a sense I always wonder what kind of rules should be for writing Dick. I get people hate Dick having a city. But I do think it can work. The issue is more things would have to be different. Does he need a Gordon? No, maybe he has his own network.

I'm not a big fan of rules in writing. But I do like guidelines.

I think I've said this before, but I'd be happy if the Gotham crew could make small cameos as often as the Nightwing writer wants them to; stuff like Dick having dinner with Damian or Bruce or calling Babs to ask her about a tricky computer virus he's investigating, stuff like that. Appearances that don't deeply impact the plot and are limited to a page or so.

Having the Bats show up in a meaningful way, where they're probably in costume and help Dick with a mission and are deeply involved for an issue or three, should happen once every 18-24 months.

Major crossovers where the books tie together should happen every 24 months at most. These are big, drawn out narratives that usually are only tangentially connected to Dick and while those can help bring sales up a little in the short term, as people follow the crossover from one book to the others, I think that consistent world building for Dick will provide much greater returns in the long run and do a better job building his fanbase.

Same applies to Titans and Supers and whoever else.

As for a Gordon, I don't mind Dick having contacts in the civilian sectors; most heroes do. I mean, even Superman has contacts like Dan Turpin, Maggie Sawyer, and Inspector Henderson. But Dick needs his own mythos and setting and cast, and that doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be, a simple copy of Gotham. So if he's got a friend in the PD somewhere, fine, but that dynamic needs to be built to advance and compliment Dick Grayson, not be something of Bruce's that got re-purposed and slapped onto Dick's world just because Dick's a Bat so he obviously needs a Gordon.

[qwazer07]

When he became police officer in Bludhaven, I think that's the best opportunity to give Dick his own Gordon, like he gets close to commissioner of Bludhaven and secretly encourages him to work together with Nightwing. Sad that his days as police officer didn't last long...

Dick also looks very hot in that police uniform. He has great sex appeal which I believe should be considered in future decisions.

[Restingvoice]

Lost Carnival is out on digital, it's... black and white line art with blue shading, which is... not exactly my favorite... don't like it actually, since blue and black on white paper reminds me of a draft.

[Ascended]

How's the story? I think I can deal with a black-white-blue color palate. That Harley Breaking Glass OGN is in black-white-red and what I've seen of it doesn't look too bad (bought it for the wife). Not my preferred approach to art but I can roll with it, especially if it fits the mood. But if the story isn't worthwhile then the art won't save it.

[AmiMizuno]

So Dick being a cop would make him his own Gordon. The issue would be being a Cop is demanding. Maybe he can work undercover? I do have to ask how good is Dick with tech?

[Restingvoice]

How's the story? I think I can deal with a black-white-blue color palate. That Harley Breaking Glass OGN is in black-white-red and what I've seen of it doesn't look too bad (bought it for the wife). Not my preferred approach to art but I can roll with it, especially if it fits the mood. But if the story isn't worthwhile then the art won't save it.

Haven't read it

So Dick being a cop would make him his own Gordon. The issue would be being a Cop is demanding. Maybe he can work undercover? I do have to ask how good is Dick with tech?

He can hack ATM, motion sensors, and Justice League satellite
Isn't undercover more demanding?

[WonderNight]

So Dick being a cop would make him his own Gordon. The issue would be being a Cop is demanding. Maybe he can work undercover? I do have to ask how good is Dick with tech?

Dick being a cop limits him as a superhero because it demands to much time in bludhaven. No time for teams or adventures out of bludhaven.

People bring up the titans tv but you see as soon he meets raven he stops doing his 9 to 5 job so he could travel across country in season 1 and Sanfansico in season 2.

Dick as a cop only works if he's limited to low level street hero not apart of the larger hero community.

[Ascended]

I still think a normal job goes against the grain of the character. Dick's very much deeply entrenched in escapist fantasy. He's the kid who got to be a superhero, long before that sort of thing was common. He's the freewheeling acrobat, reveling in his freedom (both thematically and functionally) and his devil-may-care attitude.

Dick having to stamp a time card ruins all of that. Dick having the responsibilities that we regular people do dulls the shine and appeal of the character.

Don't tie strings to him in the form of a 401k and taxes. Let the dude roam the world, be a superhero, and have fun (with the occasional bout of angst thrown in, because Dick does like to brood on occasion). The idea of a normal civilian life just does not fit him, and efforts to make it fit always, always, always fail. Every time. We all need to learn the lesson and stop trying to force it. Dick Grayson is not a "regular job" kind of guy. Why we trying to make him something he's not?

[WonderNight]

I still think a normal job goes against the grain of the character. Dick's very much deeply entrenched in escapist fantasy. He's the kid who got to be a superhero, long before that sort of thing was common. He's the freewheeling acrobat, reveling in his freedom (both thematically and functionally) and his devil-may-care attitude.

Dick having to stamp a time card ruins all of that. Dick having the responsibilities that we regular people do dulls the shine and appeal of the character.

Don't tie strings to him in the form of a 401k and taxes. Let the dude roam the world, be a superhero, and have fun (with the occasional bout of angst thrown in, because Dick does like to brood on occasion). The idea of a normal civilian life just does not fit him, and efforts to make it fit always, always, always fail. Every time. We all need to learn the lesson and stop trying to force it. Dick Grayson is not a "regular job" kind of guy. Why we trying to make him something he's not?

Yea DC needs to to look at dick and ask what fits nightwing as a character and concept. Not how to make him fit under batman.