Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Ascended]

Can anyone think of guidelines that you think DC should have?

Guidelines specifically about a job, or just in general?

I think there's a few key factors to keep in mind with Nightwing.

1. He's not an Everyman. Despite being a real down to earth guy, Dick doesn't have the background or the trappings associated with the "normal dude." He's not Peter Parker and it goes against his character to burden him with common limitations like paying bills, getting his car registered, etc. He's superhero royalty; a super hot, hyper capable, well known rock star and one of the most trusted voices in his community, and the details and stress points of his life should not mirror that of the common man.

2. Dick Grayson is a Bat. But that's not all he is and his connections to the wider DCU, specifically the Titans and (to a lesser extent) Superman have had a deep impact and influence on him and his life. Nightwing adventures should not look like Batman adventures; Dick is just as comfortable dealing with aliens and high-concept problems as he is fighting lunatics with weird gimmicks in the streets.

I think if you follow those two guidelines, you're well positioned to create a decent Nightwing, or at least something that will feel uniquely like Dick Grayson and not a generic street level vigilante.

5 issue tie-in? Ridiculous. Not that I was gonna be reading anyway but who would?

Also Joker Warzone lol.

I don't know why sales are still as high as they are, honestly. Given the delay in publishing and everything that's happening, I sorta expect to see sales drop a lot more. By the time #75 rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see the book selling 10K, maybe even less.

I sure as hell won't be supporting it. When Dick is back as Nightwing and has quality creators I'll come back happily, and might even buy two copies. But I won't pay for this trainwreck they're offering.

[Digifiend]

the only way for that happen would be to not be grayson/nightwing
he would have to not be

I think we already knew from solicits and the TPB pre-orders that Nightwing's next five issues are tie-ins? It also ends with him back to normal, so thanks, Joker!

[Elmo]

we're almost over the horizon

[Restingvoice]

Guidelines specifically about a job, or just in general?

I think there's a few key factors to keep in mind with Nightwing.

1. He's not an Everyman. Despite being a real down to earth guy, Dick doesn't have the background or the trappings associated with the "normal dude." He's not Peter Parker and it goes against his character to burden him with common limitations like paying bills, getting his car registered, etc. He's superhero royalty; a super hot, hyper capable, well known rock star and one of the most trusted voices in his community, and the details and stress points of his life should not mirror that of the common man.

2. Dick Grayson is a Bat. But that's not all he is and his connections to the wider DCU, specifically the Titans and (to a lesser extent) Superman have had a deep impact and influence on him and his life. Nightwing adventures should not look like Batman adventures; Dick is just as comfortable dealing with aliens and high-concept problems as he is fighting lunatics with weird gimmicks in the streets.

I think if you follow those two guidelines, you're well positioned to create a decent Nightwing, or at least something that will feel uniquely like Dick Grayson and not a generic street level vigilante.



I don't know why sales are still as high as they are, honestly. Given the delay in publishing and everything that's happening, I sorta expect to see sales drop a lot more. By the time #75 rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see the book selling 10K, maybe even less.

I sure as hell won't be supporting it. When Dick is back as Nightwing and has quality creators I'll come back happily, and might even buy two copies. But I won't pay for this trainwreck they're offering.

Now that you mention it you're right. Tim is the everyman, not Dick. I wonder why I keep getting the impression of everyman and comparison with Peter Parker... oh right... Dixon's Bludhaven pretty much establishes the impression that he's a poor bachelor by placing him in a low-cost apartment in a dangerous neighborhood... although he does like that kind of place, it's because he wants to help, not because he doesn't have money... but visually, at a glance, it made him looks like an everyman, a young man fresh out of college vying for independence, not a man on a mission.

The reason he stayed in Bludhaven, in that area, was because he has a mission, very different than Peter Parker.

...and knowing that his stay in Bludhaven began as a mission, this puts Dixon's Bludhaven in another new light for me, that it's basically the same as Grayson, but far longer.

It even has an ending because right before Infinite Crisis, Devin Grayson made Dick go undercover in the mob and arrange events so they stay out of Bludhaven. Blockbuster's gone, BPD is clean with Amy at the top, Penguin's gone, the mob stayed away, it's a good ending. He's done. He can leave, but at this point, of course, he already made a home and friends in Bludhaven that he wants to stay, until the Chemo nuke happened.

[Restingvoice]

the only way for that happen would be to not be grayson/nightwing
he would have to not be

That's not a Tie-in that's a whole arc! We can even count the current 2 issues with Punchline to make up a whole trade... unless it's already included, I forget which issue we're on and I don't care...

Detective Comics I can see because they have the same character, but Nightwing and Batgirl... this just shows they don't have anything to do and no other plan right now that they can afford to dedicate a whole arc for this.

[Frontier]

the only way for that happen would be to not be grayson/nightwing
he would have to not be

Guess Dick is back by the 75th issue milestone.

[Ascended]

Now that you mention it you're right. Tim is the everyman, not Dick.

The reason he stayed in Bludhaven, in that area, was because he has a mission, very different than Peter Parker.

...and knowing that his stay in Bludhaven began as a mission, this puts Dixon's Bludhaven in another new light for me, that it's basically the same as Grayson, but far longer.

Yup, exactly. Now consider the fact that Dick had a mission to save Bludhaven....and actually did it. Until Slade dropped a sludge monster on it anyway. Dick did something damn few other heroes have; successfully saved his city. Granted, the Chemo incident sorta cancels that out, but Dick accomplished something that Bruce, Clark, Wally, Barry.....none of those guys have done. It should be seen as one of Dick's greatest accomplishments....unfortunately the only thing people remember is Chemo.

Guess Dick is back by the 75th issue milestone.

I'll believe it when I see it. DC has led us to believe Dick was returning to proper form before and lied to us, so they get nothing from me until I have concrete proof that this nightmare called Ric is truly over.

[redmax99]

[QUOTE=Ascended;4967294]Yup, exactly. Now consider the fact that Dick had a mission to save Bludhaven....and actually did it. Until Slade dropped a sludge monster on it anyway. Dick did something damn few other heroes have; successfully saved his city. Granted, the Chemo incident sorta cancels that out, but Dick accomplished something that Bruce, Clark, Wally, Barry.....none of those guys have done. It should be seen as one of Dick's greatest accomplishments....unfortunately the only thing people remember is Chemo.



Bart saved his city he died, but he saved the whole west coast.

[Godlike13]

Ric won’t truly be over till the likes of Jurgans is gone. Even if they call him Dick again. As long as they keep the same mediocre and lazy creative team on nothing is going to really change.

[AmiMizuno]

My issue is why can't Bludhaven actually be safe. It does have dangerous crimes but it's not on the same level as Gotham. He doesn't have to worry about his city in flames. That since Clark and Bruce raised him maybe the city should be that. The city is more light than dark

[Restingvoice]

Yup, exactly. Now consider the fact that Dick had a mission to save Bludhaven....and actually did it. Until Slade dropped a sludge monster on it anyway. Dick did something damn a few other heroes have; successfully saved his city. Granted, the Chemo incident sorta cancels that out, but Dick accomplished something that Bruce, Clark, Wally, Barry.....none of those guys have done. It should be seen as one of Dick's greatest accomplishments....unfortunately the only thing people remember is Chemo.

Neverending stories. Gotta destroy it to maintain the status quo.

My issue is why can't Bludhaven actually be safe. It does have dangerous crimes but it's not on the same level as Gotham. He doesn't have to worry about his city in flames. That since Clark and Bruce raised him maybe the city should be that. The city is more light than dark

Well, technically, it started out more dangerous than Gotham since there's no Batman until Nightwing came along... The Rebirth version seems safer, at least on the surface, because there's no organized crime until Blockbuster returns...

But I get what you mean... the thing is... safe city doesn't create conflict, and a superhero needs conflict to operate

So if Bludhaven is safe, then Dick will move to somewhere else, another city that needs him. He will still call Bludhaven home since he's made friends there, but he won't stay there anymore if it's safe.

[cc008]

Just finished the first mini by Dennis ONeil.. onto the Chuck Dixon material now. Good stuff.

[AmiMizuno]

Neverending stories. Gotta destroy it to maintain the status quo.



Well, technically, it started out more dangerous than Gotham since there's no Batman until Nightwing came along... The Rebirth version seems safer, at least on the surface, because there's no organized crime until Blockbuster returns...

But I get what you mean... the thing is... safe city doesn't create conflict, and a superhero needs conflict to operate

So if Bludhaven is safe, then Dick will move to somewhere else, another city that needs him. He will still call Bludhaven home since he's made friends there, but he won't stay there anymore if it's safe.

You said there was no organized crime? What if there was but they never do it in the city. They want to have the look that Bludhaven is untouched by Gotham's trouble. That they don't need a superhero.

Interesting. One idea I did have is this. Bludhaven does have organized crim but never do they c

[Ascended]

Bart saved his city he died, but he saved the whole west coast.

Bart....Allen? Impulse? When did he live on the west coast? Was this when he was the Flash? I dropped that book pretty quick....

Ric won’t truly be over till the likes of Jurgans is gone. Even if they call him Dick again. As long as they keep the same mediocre and lazy creative team on nothing is going to really change.

Yeah, but one step at a time.

Neverending stories. Gotta destroy it to maintain the status quo.

Well, yeah, but in-universe it should have been a bigger deal. Of course the story requires more problems and troubles to keep things going, so if Chemo hadn't happened then the Royal Flush Gang would've moved in, or something else would've happened. But it's a rare sight to see a hero actually complete his/her mission and drive the hardened criminal element out of a city. Dick should have gotten recognition for that.

[redmax99]

[QUOTE=Ascended;4967604]Bart....Allen? Impulse? When did he live on the west coast? Was this when he was the Flash? I dropped that book pretty quick....

yeah it at the ending of his book inertia and the rogues killed him. Iris came back from the future to get Bart to ask anyone for help to save his life, but he chose to accept his fate and die saving San Francisco. It was all part of the Jla, Jsa crossover lighting saga and countdown to final crisis.