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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAHX View Post
    It’s as hard as drawing Caucasian men... But even if it was harder, that can’t be an excuse for not drawing a Japanese character Japanese? That’s the job of an artist. And Asian artists exist too, I’m sure they don’t draw only white characters because Asian characters are hard...
    - Daken is half Japanese, but he is Asian-passing. Logan himself said he looks like his mother, so he should not look white(or like Logan). Saying that he’s half white so it’s ok if he doesn’t look Asian just sounds like another excuse for whitewashing.



    No, he doesn’t. the whole point of his original character design is that he doesn’t look like Logan with any of his features, he looks actually the exact opposite of him. The only thing that Daken has from Logan is his blue eyes, which doesn’t make any sense, but hey, let’s have something from Logan too.

    ---
    A lot of artist gave up and didn’t bother, but I think that was just pure laziness. it’s always been an issue with Daken, he was almost never been drawn like an Asian character. And most of the time it’s been an issue with other Asian characters too in general. For Daken it can be said that ‘he’s half white anyway’, but I think it’s just to justify that laziness. We don’t know yet what it will be like in X-factor, but this is why taking away one of his previously Japanese features and making him bulky bothering me a little. But aside from the bulkiness, he can still be portrayed as an Asian character, so I’ll wait for the book to really form an opinion about it.
    I just don't think it's pure laziness.

    And if you look at the art, he was often drawn to sort of lool like Logan. And their similar bodytypes was even commented on by Laura in Collision.

    And it's not that he looked like Logan's opposite, it's that he was trying to make himself different from Logan completely. It's why he concocted elaborate plans and went to operas and enjoyed fancy suits. Sure, he did seem to enjoy all of those things but he was also working very hard to not be like Logan in terms of personality or looks.

    But we always had the idea that Daken was lying to himself. He'd go on beserker rages similar to Wolverine, we would find him just hanging out in seedy bars like Wolverine, he'd get plastered like Wolverine, and this all finally culminates in Wolverines where we discover that he looks exactly like Logan when he lets himself go and he's at his lowest.

    So him looking like Logan here is a very important visual so long as Leah has the story move in the direction that Daken is trying to change himself and a way to do that is to model himself on Wolverine. Or he's doing it to lull the others into a false sense of security.

  2. #107
    Spectacular Member MakubeX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Daken really hasn't had an outfit or costume that's caught on. The shirtless look is his most iconic, funny enough.

    most of his costumes haven't been that interesting. Remember when he got a French fashion designer to make him a new one in-story, only for Johnny Blaze to torch it the next issue? He even pouted over it.
    I don't know, I find his X-Blue outfit my personal favs, imo. Best of both worlds.

    daken blue.jpg

    Strangely enough, there were variant/covers of Daken shirtless but has Wolverine underwear-tights....started around his first appearance of ANW. For a second, I thought that would be his official look. Even the villain variant-cover for House of X had him wore the yellow tights.

    dl1.jpgdl2.jpg

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakubeX View Post
    I don't know, I find his X-Blue outfit my personal favs, imo. Best of both worlds.

    daken blue.jpg

    Strangely enough, there were variant/covers of Daken shirtless but has Wolverine underwear-tights....started around his first appearance of ANW. For a second, I thought that would be his official look. Even the villain variant-cover for House of X had him wore the yellow tights.

    dl1.jpgdl2.jpg
    The X-Men Blue costume worked because it actually looks put together and like an actual costume. The Wolverine pants also looks more like an actual costume, but since it looks so much like Wolverine's pants, it looks incomplete without the top.

  4. #109
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    The pants look he actually pulls off, in my opinion. The vest is kind of cool, but I was so annoyed at Blue at that point and how badly it handled that entire team it didn't leave an impression on me.

  5. #110
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I just don't think it's pure laziness.

    And if you look at the art, he was often drawn to sort of lool like Logan. And their similar bodytypes was even commented on by Laura in Collision.

    And it's not that he looked like Logan's opposite, it's that he was trying to make himself different from Logan completely. It's why he concocted elaborate plans and went to operas and enjoyed fancy suits. Sure, he did seem to enjoy all of those things but he was also working very hard to not be like Logan in terms of personality or looks.

    But we always had the idea that Daken was lying to himself. He'd go on beserker rages similar to Wolverine, we would find him just hanging out in seedy bars like Wolverine, he'd get plastered like Wolverine, and this all finally culminates in Wolverines where we discover that he looks exactly like Logan when he lets himself go and he's at his lowest.

    So him looking like Logan here is a very important visual so long as Leah has the story move in the direction that Daken is trying to change himself and a way to do that is to model himself on Wolverine. Or he's doing it to lull the others into a false sense of security.
    Danial Way's, the creator of Daken thoughts and intentions on Daken, about his creation, and mostly on his look:



    so briefly:
    - Daken was deliberately created NOT to be like Logan Ė because we already have a Logan
    - About his looks Daniel Way literally said: ďHe should have a kind of a lithe figure; he shouldnít be short and bulky like WolverineĒ
    - He was meant to look somewhat feminine!
    - his Asian descent also used to be highlighted

    Every time he wasn't portrayed accordingly, it was the artists' laziness because they just didn't bother.

    Also Logan's thoughts the first time he sees Daken:



    At this point I feel like weíre talking about three things, his looks, his personality and his nature. Daken is supposed to be and always was very different from Logan with his looks and his personality, and not because he pretended to be different, but becauseÖ you know, he is a different person. And since heís half Japanese, those differences were very possible regarding his look.

    But itís true that he was lying to himself, but that was all about their nature. Daken despised Loganís berserker rage, the way he was fighting and not being in control at times, while he took pride in being more calculating, stealthy and elegant, but as you said he had to realize he wasnít always as much in control or elegant as he wanted to believe. I think this is the part where he lied to himself.
    Their nature is also something that Daken was conflicted about, he didnít always understand that if both of them are killers, why his father was considered a hero and he a villain, or why to use their skills for superheroing in the first place.

    I think I understand what youíre saying though, he started out as someone who thought was stronger and above everyone else(and mostly better than Logan), then learned his life was a lie, he wasnít a successor of any power or empire, he failed at his own attempt for power, he became weak and pathetic with his drug addiction, Logan didnít pay attention to him and he couldnít kill him either. A complete downhill, so maybe he got disillusioned of his former 'glorious' self and life, but this shouldnít change his look or every bit of his personality into Loganís, it should just change the way he thinks. Maybe understand and accept Logan, their connection/similarities and that he wasn't exactly who he thought he was, and maybe that he isn't 100% different from him. but I donít feel like that Daken realizing who he is should be a journey of becoming Logan... And definitely don't think that was the attempt of the writers either when there was zero consistency between his appearances, and they conveniently ignored facts like he was dead or a horseman lol

    But we'll see with X-Factor, maybe this is exactly what will happen...
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  6. #111
    All-New Member gealach's Avatar
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    Our boy had a brief cameo in X-Men #7! I wonder what he was doing, it looks like he's guarding the gates.RCO018_1582727995.jpg
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  7. #112
    Mutant Midnighter NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gealach View Post
    Our boy had a brief cameo in X-Men #7! I wonder what he was doing, it looks like he's guarding the gates.RCO018_1582727995.jpg
    Some of these group pairing are so funny to me. Daken, Selene, and Forge just hanging out... lol
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    Some of these group pairing are so funny to me. Daken, Selene, and Forge just hanging out... lol
    I was under the impression they were just waiting by the gates. He may not have gone in since we didn't see him in any group shot, but given what X-Factor is, it's interesting foreshadowing almost.

  9. #114
    All-New Member gealach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I was under the impression they were just waiting by the gates. He may not have gone in since we didn't see him in any group shot, but given what X-Factor is, it's interesting foreshadowing almost.
    I got the impression they were guarding the gates, but you're right, it might be foreshadowing too.
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  10. #115
    Spectacular Member MakubeX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gealach View Post
    I got the impression they were guarding the gates, but you're right, it might be foreshadowing too.
    I think you both could be possibly right, or, maybe, Daken was pitching for a threesome. Bam, I figured it out.

    Anyways, I'm glad he made his first appearance in the main title since the house of X.

  11. #116
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    I read it as foreshadowing too. Iím sure everything by Hickman is intentional and X-Factor will deal with resurrection questions, probably with crucible too. I donít think him showing up was a coincidence.

    It made me wonder, what if Daken also goes through the crucible? Looks like there'll be some changes for him: we already know about the change in his physical appearance, which as Leah said was a deliberate choice, and she also described him as a Ďsad feral full-on barbarianí in X-Factor, which seems very different from his usual characterization. Or maybe something else will make him be like that
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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAHX View Post
    I read it as foreshadowing too. I’m sure everything by Hickman is intentional and X-Factor will deal with resurrection questions, probably with crucible too. I don’t think him showing up was a coincidence.

    It made me wonder, what if Daken also goes through the crucible? Looks like there'll be some changes for him: we already know about the change in his physical appearance, which as Leah said was a deliberate choice, and she also described him as a ‘sad feral full-on barbarian’ in X-Factor, which seems very different from his usual characterization. Or maybe something else will make him be like that
    Why would he go through it? He has his powers. Maybe some lasting damage to his healing factor and some lasting brain damage, but the Crucible seems like it would be for more extreme things than that.

    His physical appearance is just him with a different haircut.

    As for why he's depressed? Laura? Existential crisis?

    X-Factor is a very different team than he's used to and this issue really makes it apparent just how important the team is. And as I've said before, there's a good chance Daken will be given the worst part of the job.

  13. #118
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Why would he go through it? He has his powers. Maybe some lasting damage to his healing factor and some lasting brain damage, but the Crucible seems like it would be for more extreme things than that.

    His physical appearance is just him with a different haircut.

    As for why he's depressed? Laura? Existential crisis?

    X-Factor is a very different team than he's used to and this issue really makes it apparent just how important the team is. And as I've said before, there's a good chance Daken will be given the worst part of the job.

    Because it was said in the X-Men issue that other mutants, not just the powerless ones might also want the opportunity and right to be reborn differently, to have a better version of themselves. And the wills were also mentioned, there are already requests to the council by mutants to make certain changes in them. Kurt also said that after witnessing the crucible they will think itís not gonna be a problem to do. I think this issue actually implies that it could be potentially a more casual thing than something extreme. (and I guess 'regular suicide' will still happen?) So that's why the thought.

    His haircut (and his tattoo) is actually the only thing that's the same about his appearance. It was Kevin Wada's redesign, it's a relatively new addition but it was used kind of consistently. he had the man-bun in Iceman solo, Iceman mini and X-Men Blue. He never had this beard or costume for a character design, but the biggest change is obviously his beefiness regardless of how we feel about it or if you want to see it or not. it was literally Leahís request to make him the beefcake of the team... itís a noticeable change and the first thing everyone pointed out about him when the design was released, including this forum. Since Leah wanted it this way and it was a deliberate choice, I was thinking maybe it's more than just a design choice, just like many others did before me.


    His 'depression' (if that's what he has) is maybe because of Laura, thatís a good option, or an existential crisis, or the job on the team. These are all very possible. As I said, Ďmaybe something else will make him be like thatí, I didnít say itís the crucible for sure. Again, today's issue and his cameo just made me wonder whether crucible is also an option for his change, it was a thought, that's all. Just theorizing, you know, for discussions...?
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  14. #119
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    I'm not saying we can't discuss and I'm sorry if Income off too strong, I just still don't think his added bulk isn't from just eating healthier and probably actually working out more.

  15. #120
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Itís all right, no worries. Well, eating healthier and working out can be a reason for the physical change, itís just, we donít know yet if thatís the reason, so itís still fair to guess?
    But Iím actually much more curious about the change in his mood, and why he would be suddenly a Ďsad feral barbarianí. there must be something that caused it and it seems like a big change from his recent characterizations.
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