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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Default Myths about Superman

    What are some of the false myths propagated about Superman over the years? I'll start with one.

    Its widely believed that Captain Marvel started flying from the very first comic he appeared in and thus wasn't a clone of Superman. Also Superman copied flight from Captain Marvel.

    This is false. Captain Marvel started flying in Whiz Comics 5 (June 1940). Superman was flying in his radio show starting in April 1940 which was the likely source of his flight.

    Here's some scans of Cap leaping from Whiz Comics 2,3 and 4.






    Its clear Captain Marvel was a blatant clone.
    Last edited by Superfan90; 10-18-2020 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Everybody was ripping everyone else off in comics.

    Superman owes a lot to John Carter of Mars, Flash Gordon, and Gladiator. His Fortress of Solitude is blatantly ripped off from Doc Samson.

    Captain Marvel was absolutely ripping off Superman, but with an ingenious twist of making his alter ego a boy rather than a grown man. This is why Captain Marvel/Shazam is such a great character.

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Everybody was ripping everyone else off in comics.

    Superman owes a lot to John Carter of Mars, Flash Gordon, and Gladiator. His Fortress of Solitude is blatantly ripped off from Doc Samson.

    Captain Marvel was absolutely ripping off Superman, but with an ingenious twist of making his alter ego a boy rather than a grown man. This is why Captain Marvel/Shazam is such a great character.



    The fortress is ripped off from Doc Savage. Some believe that Doc Savage & the Shadow are the main sources for the Clark Kent name. Clark Savage jr. & Kent Allard.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Everybody was ripping everyone else off in comics.

    Superman owes a lot to John Carter of Mars, Flash Gordon, and Gladiator. His Fortress of Solitude is blatantly ripped off from Doc Samson.

    Captain Marvel was absolutely ripping off Superman, but with an ingenious twist of making his alter ego a boy rather than a grown man. This is why Captain Marvel/Shazam is such a great character.
    Not really, Superman incorporated a lot of other characters traits but he wasn't just the amalgamation of these characters (None of these characters went against social injustice issues). Captain Marvel took everything Superman had and changed it as he was a boy rather than a man, that's it.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    It was max fleischer cartoons that cemented superman's flight,not the radio show. Superman also "flew" in superman #10. These didn't cement that as part and parcel of the character.Furthermore, radio show superman is quite different. That superman landed on earth as an adult. But, that was a staple back then instead of telling the same old tired story over and over again. These guys(older adaptations) actually adapted superman and never claimed it was otherwise. Superman has been getting adapted ever since. But, now we cling to notions like canon.There are 100s of versions of superman. But, there is only one canon superman that's seigel and shuster superman. Others are adaptations .You can say jimmy also was introduced before radio show. But, he wasn't cemented . He was cemented after the radio show and was adopted into the story.Superman started flying and doing more feats because of competition with captain marvel at the time.

    In an article that C.C. Beck wrote, according to court transcripts that were dug up by a court reporter by the name of Thomas Weiss, National’s lawyers were unable to get any witness to say that Captain Marvel had been copied from Superman himself.

    Additionally, in Captain Marvel co-creator Bill Parker’s testimony in 1948, when he was asked where he got the idea of a boy with a secret past and the wizard Shazam, he said he got it specifically from Stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Roundtable.

    So no, cap didn't ripoff supes. It's infact the reverse. Superman was trying to compete with cap.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-18-2020 at 11:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    It was max fleischer cartoons that cemented superman's flight,not the radio show. Superman also "flew" in superman #10. These didn't cement that as part and parcel of the character.Furthermore, radio show superman is quite different. That superman landed on earth as an adult. But, that was a staple back then instead of telling the same old tired story over and over again. These guys(older adaptations) actually adapted superman and never claimed it was otherwise. Superman has been getting adapted ever since. But, now we cling to things like canon.There are 100s of versions of superman.You can say jimmy also was introduced before radio show. But, he wasn't cemented . He was cemented after the radio show and was adopted into the story.Superman started flying and doing more feats because of competition with captain marvel at the time.

    In an article that C.C. Beck wrote, according to court transcripts that were dug up by a court reporter by the name of Thomas Weiss, Nationalís lawyers were unable to get any witness to say that Captain Marvel had been copied from Superman himself.

    Additionally, in Captain Marvel co-creator Bill Parkerís testimony in 1948, when he was asked where he got the idea of a boy with a secret past and the wizard Shazam, he said he got it specifically from Stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Roundtable.

    So no, cap didn't ripoff supes. It's infact the reverse. Superman was trying to compete with cap.
    Trying to compete and ripping off are two different things buddy. Captain Marvel as he appeared was a strongman who could leap not fly, had an alter ego, a symbol on his chest and was throwing a car on the cover like Superman did.

    If that's not ripping off I don't know what is. Also the actual manager of Fawcett Comics said "Give me Superman but his alter ego is a boy"

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    BTW, it was confirmed twice in the court that Cap was a clone of Superman. First time Fawcett won the lawsuit because DC has forgotten to copyright multiple Superman stories.

    http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/law/back20001024.shtml

    https://archive.vn/20140906072002/ht...t-publication/

    Its not up for debate that Cap was a clone.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Trying to compete and ripping off are two different things buddy. Captain Marvel as he appeared was a strongman who could leap not fly, had an alter ego, a symbol on his chest and was throwing a car on the cover like Superman did.

    If that's not ripping off I don't know what is. Also the actual manager of Fawcett Comics said "Give me Superman but his alter ego is a boy"
    No captain marvel was noble white knight in shining armour, messiah figure (as far as i can remember) . He wasn't a strongman. Phantom was a strongman. Superman was a strongman. Batman was a strongman because superman was one. Allmight and deku are strongmen. Having strength does not make you a strongman. How that strength is portrayed and came to be also matters. Secret identity thing came from zorro btw. Phantom was the first strongman.

    There were characters with flight before captain marvel and superman. But, superman in an attempt to get more younger viewership and please younger demographics whom were enthralled by billy batson started taking on more characterstics like captain marvel. It wasn't just flight. His personality was shifting. His motivations had a shift. His powers became more amplified like his intelligence, speed... Etc. His modus operandi changed. This process cemented and completed after comics code authority.

    This idea that cap ripped of superman is entirely false. Which is what i was challenging .They took superficial aspects of the character.I am not saying superman ripped off captain marvel.But, he did become captain marvel regardless. Modern superman is actually captain marvel with old pulp heroes like tarzan, zorro... Etc on the side or non existant. While, i do believe the creators understood the competition. They never took the character away from the pulp origins like what happened later in the date. In the goldenage, superman was the pinnacle and amalgamation of all the pulp heroes like zorro, john carter, tarzan,... So on and so forth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    BTW, it was confirmed twice in the court that Cap was a clone of Superman. First time Fawcett won the lawsuit because DC has forgotten to copyright multiple Superman stories.

    http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/law/back20001024.shtml

    https://archive.vn/20140906072002/ht...t-publication/

    Its not up for debate that Cap was a clone.
    Winning a lawsuit and proving an argument true in court is two different thing.one may or may not lead to another happening.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-18-2020 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No captain marvel was noble white knight in shining armour, messiah figure (as far as i can remember) . He wasn't a strongman. Phantom was a strongman. Superman was a strongman. Batman was a strongman because superman was one. Allmight and deku are strongmen. Having strength does not make you a strongman. How that strength is portrayed and came to be also matters. Secret identity thing came from zorro btw. Phantom was the first strongman.

    There were characters with flight before captain marvel and superman. But, superman in an attempt to get more younger viewership and please younger demographics whom were enthralled by billy batson started taking on more characterstics like captain marvel. It wasn't just flight. His personality was shifting. His motivations had a shift. His powers became more amplified like his intelligence, speed... Etc. His modus operandi changed. This process cemented and completed after comics code authority.

    This idea that cap ripped of superman is entirely false. Which is what i was challenging .They took superficial aspects of the character.I am not saying superman ripped off captain marvel.But, he did become captain marvel regardless. Modern superman is actually captain marvel with old pulp heroes like tarzan, zorro... Etc on the side or non existant. While, i do believe the creators understood the competition. They never took the character away from the pulp origins like what happened later in the date. In the goldenage, superman was the pinnacle and amalgamation of all the pulp heroes like zorro, john carter, tarzan,... So on and so forth.


    Winning a lawsuit and proving an argument true in court is two different thing.one may or may not lead to another happening.
    So your entire argument is based on how you view the characters. Got it.

  10. #10
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    Not sure what all the ripping off talk is about. All comic book heroes owe to heroic concepts before them so it is quite moot.

  11. #11
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Not really, Superman incorporated a lot of other characters traits but he wasn't just the amalgamation of these characters (None of these characters went against social injustice issues). Captain Marvel took everything Superman had and changed it as he was a boy rather than a man, that's it.
    I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. One is based in sci-fi while the other is based in magic. The tone was also quite different. The Captain Marvel stories were very innovative for the time, to the point that the Superman books started taking a lot of the stuff that worked so well in Captain Marvel and incorporated it into Superman.

    Again, I don't think any of this makes Superman a lesser character. I much prefer Superman to Cap, but, credit where credit is due, his comics were often much better, particularly after the scumbags at National pushed out Seigel & Shuster.

  12. #12
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    The fortress is ripped off from Doc Savage. Some believe that Doc Savage & the Shadow are the main sources for the Clark Kent name. Clark Savage jr. & Kent Allard.
    Ha! Yeah, I got Brock Samson and Doc Savage mixed up.

    Man, I would love to see this team-up

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. One is based in sci-fi while the other is based in magic. The tone was also quite different. The Captain Marvel stories were very innovative for the time, to the point that the Superman books started taking a lot of the stuff that worked so well in Captain Marvel and incorporated it into Superman.

    Again, I don't think any of this makes Superman a lesser character. I much prefer Superman to Cap, but, credit where credit is due, his comics were often much better, particularly after the scumbags at National pushed out Seigel & Shuster.
    The stories were better I agree. But the character was still a blatant ripoff and its not just me, courts accepted it TWICE.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Not sure what all the ripping off talk is about. All comic book heroes owe to heroic concepts before them so it is quite moot.
    It’s mostly that he codified the modern superhero archetype.

    It’s also that people like to differentiate superheroes from the quasi-powered otherwise normal adventurers that were common before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It’s mostly that he codified the modern superhero archetype.

    It’s also that people like to differentiate superheroes from the quasi-powered otherwise normal adventurers that were common before.
    The name and the medium are all technological or marketing incidentals applied to the same thing that has been a part of every civilization. If we are going to make a big fuss about Captain Marvel or any others then the exact same criticisms could be applied to Supes and the other strip as they didn't themselves do anything that hadn't been done for milennia. The difference is limited to nomenclature and the technology for the delivery method. The old words are even used to describe the super set.

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