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  1. #271
    Mighty Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    Exactly. When Van Jensen was writing John Stewart at the time, there weren't really any complaints in the John Stewart thread. This tends to happen if John is lacking solo material.

    For these issues to be fixed, John Stewart needs a solo book. I doubt the upcoming GL 100 page special would have anything interesting with John in it. I'm sure he's just going to be there in the background and probably propping up other Green Lantern characters. Seeing how Kyle, Hal, and Guy have their own covers, while John Stewart doesn't, is an example of a lack of interest. This is not really surprising, considering Geoff Johns is involved in that project. Every time when he's around John Stewart seems to get shafted. Geoff Johns and John Stewart doesn't mix well.
    I find that Van Jensen's run wasn't bad, but it did not do a whole to address the problems that John Stewart has as a character. It did not elevate him, propel him, or even develop him all that much. When it ended, John was more or less in the same situation he was before, minus having Fatality around (for better or worse, depending on your view). It did not give him a supporting cast that stuck, and did not do anything defining for him. It did not develop a niche for him, or...well...anything. That's partially why the character is still suffering from the same problems he's always been suffering from. The dude's been around for like 50 years or something, and he's still way underdeveloped. It's pretty stupid.

    Way back, I told people that a dumb power upgrade wasn't what John Stewart needed when they were marking out over that ultra violet thing. The fact that people are still complaining about much the same things right now kind of proves that. What did the power do for him? Like I predicted, it didn't do anything. Well, I guess it could help him establish his own niche somehow, but I knew that particular concept wasn't really good enough to be followed up on too much by others, similar to putting John in pink and making him a Star Sapphire wasn't really good enough to be followed up on. Some people want to act like I'm downplaying the character or whatever, but if they set aside fan-ish emotions for a second and listen to what I'm saying, they might find it makes sense. Otherwise, the stuff I say wouldn't keep happening and coming true.

  2. #272
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I find that Van Jensen's run wasn't bad, but it did not do a whole to address the problems that John Stewart has as a character. It did not elevate him, propel him, or even develop him all that much. When it ended, John was more or less in the same situation he was before, minus having Fatality around (for better or worse, depending on your view). It did not give him a supporting cast that stuck, and did not do anything defining for him. It did not develop a niche for him, or...well...anything. That's partially why the character is still suffering from the same problems he's always been suffering from. The dude's been around for like 50 years or something, and he's still way underdeveloped. It's pretty stupid.

    Way back, I told people that a dumb power upgrade wasn't what John Stewart needed when they were marking out over that ultra violet thing. The fact that people are still complaining about much the same things right now kind of proves that. What did the power do for him? Like I predicted, it didn't do anything. Well, I guess it could help him establish his own niche somehow, but I knew that particular concept wasn't really good enough to be followed up on too much by others, similar to putting John in pink and making him a Star Sapphire wasn't really good enough to be followed up on. Some people want to act like I'm downplaying the character or whatever, but if they set aside fan-ish emotions for a second and listen to what I'm saying, they might find it makes sense. Otherwise, the stuff I say wouldn't keep happening and coming true.
    I think that the Van Jensen run was good. I do think that his run could have been better. John Stewart did have some good moments in that run. The Shadow Market was an interesting concept that unfortunately ended prematurely, due to editors not allowing him to write more issues. When Van Jensen ended his run with John Stewart harnessing the power of the Ultra Violet to prevent a planet from being destroyed, it's one of John Stewart's greatest moments in that run imo. So I can see Van Jensen did really invest into the character. But his book depended too much on the main GL book, like all of these crossovers. I think one of the problems is that later writers didn't seem to build John off of Van Jensen's run, other than him being a leader, which isn't saying much. I think the only way for John to really move forward is to have his own solo book, but I don't see that happening any time soon (if ever).

    The problem I had with Scott Snyder's run is that he took away the focus on the core members, other than Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl. He also left questions about John Stewart, because it seemed like it was undone. The Xanshi incident wasn't 't really needed, unless there was some plot for John Stewart to bring Xanshi back to life. I find it interesting that one writer have John getting over it, while the other (Scott Snyder) has John not getting over the incident. That's character inconsistency. And it needs to stop.

  3. #273
    Mighty Member LP22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    Exactly. When Van Jensen was writing John Stewart at the time, there weren't really any complaints in the John Stewart thread. This tends to happen if John is lacking solo material.

    For these issues to be fixed, John Stewart needs a solo book. I doubt the upcoming GL 100 page special would have anything interesting with John in it. I'm sure he's just going to be there in the background and probably propping up other Green Lantern characters. Seeing how Kyle, Hal, and Guy have their own covers, while John Stewart doesn't, is an example of a lack of interest. This is not really surprising, considering Geoff Johns is involved in that project. Every time when he's around John Stewart seems to get shafted. Geoff Johns and John Stewart doesn't mix well.

    Dude John is in the biggest team in DC and he appears in outside comics as well as the teen lantern one while both kyle and guy are in limbo and they don't even appear in panels in other comics superman heros and the green lanern with hal are the recent exsample.

    John is treated way better from DC then Guy AND AND ESPECIALLY KYLE.

    Right now the top lanterns are Hal,John and Jessica So don't say that John is treated the worst because he's not.

  4. #274
    Mighty Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LP22 View Post
    Dude John is in the biggest team in DC and he appears in outside comics as well as the teen lantern one while both kyle and guy are in limbo and they don't even appear in panels in other comics superman heros and the green lanern with hal are the recent exsample.
    That might be true, but I'm not quite sure why you would chime in and say that to fans of John Stewart. The reality is many of them probably won't give too many efs what happens to Guy and Kyle. Those other characters might be doing bad, but that doesn't mean John is doing great, and his fans are mostly concerned with him.

    That said, you can partially blame Guy and Kyle's situation on there being too many Green Lanterns around. The number of them is just unmanageable for DC, and as was mentioned earlier, someone is going to get shafted.

  5. #275
    Mighty Member LP22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    That might be true, but I'm not quite sure why you would chime in and say that to fans of John Stewart. The reality is many of them probably won't give too many efs what happens to Guy and Kyle. Those other characters might be doing bad, but that doesn't mean John is doing great, and his fans are mostly concerned with him.

    That said, you can partially blame Guy and Kyle's situation on there being too many Green Lanterns around. The number of them is just unmanageable for DC, and as was mentioned earlier, someone is going to get shafted.
    well to say that he's doing bad while others are doing better is false and maybe it's DC'S problem but to say they mistreat him is a lie while you look how they treat kyle,guy and even Baz trying to defend that is is just ignoring facts there are characters treated way worse then John and fans playing victim in my opinion looks like hypocrisy.

  6. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by LP22 View Post
    well to say that he's doing bad while others are doing better is false and maybe it's DC'S problem but to say they mistreat him is a lie while you look how they treat kyle,guy and even Baz trying to defend that is is just ignoring facts there are characters treated way worse then John and fans playing victim in my opinion looks like hypocrisy.
    To be fair, I don't think they're saying that John is the #1 worst treated character, more so that he's among those that are treated badly. This is a John Stewart thread, so you're gonna hear a lot about John Stewart's problems and not a whole lot about others unless they factor into what's going on with him specifically, just like you would hear Kyle specific stuff on a Kyle thread with not a lot of John, Hal, etc.

    What you're saying is true though, John has WAY more outside media appearances than Kyle or Guy, but that doesn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things when the character is so poorly developed/utilized in the comics (from which outside media can base stories/appearances off of) and only rides on nostalgia that's bound to die off as time progresses. Similar to how Kyle had all the "Torchbearer"/Ion/White Lantern stuff in the past, but doesn't have any outside media exposure to show for it, but at least he got that foundation and development in the comics during the 90's and then some more during the now 20 years since the cartoon started (when John should've been elevated). If the powers that be in Hollywood ever decide to use him, he's got at least a decade's worth of solo material to work with, whereas John has very little (and does not compare to in importance to the GL mythos).
    Last edited by Cosmic Emerald 23; 02-17-2020 at 01:51 PM.

  7. #277
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    John is still DC's most prominent black hero. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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  9. #279
    Mighty Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    John is still DC's most prominent black hero. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
    I don't even know. Black Lightning has his own TV show and he's his own character, and I have to admit that John has been running on nostalgia for a long time now. Bare in mind, I'm not a fan of Black Lightning in the slightest (I prefer John Stewart), but it's pretty clear he has some key things going for him that John doesn't have. John's biggest boon is that he's associated with Green Lantern, which is generally a way bigger deal than Black Lightning, but at the same time, GLs are a dime a dozen these days unless it's the main one, and it's an identity that was largely established by non-black characters Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, and I think there's a strong likelihood that John will go on playing a secondary role to Hal Jordan. At at least nothing suggesting that will change in the foreseeable future.

    So it's something that's easily debatable and even if John is the most prominent, there's like at least a dozen caveats to that (like John being a secondary character in the franchise he is a part of).

  10. #280
    Mighty Member LP22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Emerald 23 View Post
    To be fair, I don't think they're saying that John is the #1 worst treated character, more so that he's among those that are treated badly. This is a John Stewart thread, so you're gonna hear a lot about John Stewart's problems and not a whole lot about others unless they factor into what's going on with him specifically, just like you would hear Kyle specific stuff on a Kyle thread with not a lot of John, Hal, etc.

    What you're saying is true though, John has WAY more outside media appearances than Kyle or Guy, but that doesn't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things when the character is so poorly developed/utilized in the comics (from which outside media can base stories/appearances off of) and only rides on nostalgia that's bound to die off as time progresses. Similar to how Kyle had all the "Torchbearer"/Ion/White Lantern stuff in the past, but doesn't have any outside media exposure to show for it, but at least he got that foundation and development in the comics during the 90's and then some more during the now 20 years since the cartoon started (when John should've been elevated). If the powers that be in Hollywood ever decide to use him, he's got at least a decade's worth of solo material to work with, whereas John has very little (and does not compare to in importance to the GL mythos).
    That could be true if kyle was used in outside media like movies,animation and video games but guess who was picked,hell even on crossover comics with green lantern with star trek and planet of the apes kyle didn't appear and in the other he was dead DC doesn't mistreat John fans are just mad that he isn't on hal's position.

    I get it but to see others complain about one but then not acknowledge bigger issues with a franchise that is big enough for all the fans is really comes across as victim playing.
    Last edited by LP22; 02-17-2020 at 03:07 PM.

  11. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I don't even know. Black Lightning has his own TV show and he's his own character, and I have to admit that John has been running on nostalgia for a long time now. Bare in mind, I'm not a fan of Black Lightning in the slightest (I prefer John Stewart), but it's pretty clear he has some key things going for him that John doesn't have. John's biggest boon is that he's associated with Green Lantern, which is generally a way bigger deal than Black Lightning, but at the same time, GLs are a dime a dozen these days unless it's the main one, and it's an identity that was largely established by non-black characters Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, and I think there's a strong likelihood that John will go on playing a secondary role to Hal Jordan. At at least nothing suggesting that will change in the foreseeable future.

    So it's something that's easily debatable and even if John is the most prominent, there's like at least a dozen caveats to that (like John being a secondary character in the franchise he is a part of).
    If John is the best DC has to offer when it comes to Black heroes, that's not saying much. The best we have to look forward to is a side character, Player 2 at best....pretty pathetic. All the while Marvel has dudes like Black Panther and Blade to bank on, two highly marketable and fleshed out characters who are head honchos of their own franchises.

  12. #282
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    To be fair, Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl really needed the focus, since none of them has a solo book. And the others they do.

  13. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by LP22 View Post
    That could be true if kyle was used in outside media like movies,animation and video games but guess who was picked,hell even on crossover comics with green lantern with star trek and planet of the apes kyle didn't appear and in the other he was dead DC doesn't mistreat John fans are just mad that he isn't on hal's position.

    I get it but to see others complain about one but then not acknowledge bigger issues with a franchise that is big enough for all the fans is really comes across as victim playing.
    Again, I think you're over generalizing. I agree, John gets used way more outside these days and everybody not named Hal Jordan will inevitably get shafted due to the way DC decides to run the GL ship. But to say that fans are just mad that he's not in Hal's position is a bit too far. The fans want John to be built up and developed, yes, but ultimately want more equal treatment of the lanterns. No central character leading the franchise, but an ensemble cast where no lantern is more important than the others but brings unique contributions to the corps. That's why getting rid of the whole "Greatest GL" title was a touching point in many ideal scenarios, because it would even things out more in addition to giving them more prominence and development to focus on said unique qualities. At least that's the general consensus that I remember from this thread (or rather last year's thread), but idk maybe that's changed in my absence.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Emerald 23 View Post
    If John is the best DC has to offer when it comes to Black heroes, that's not saying much. The best we have to look forward to is a side character, Player 2 at best....pretty pathetic. All the while Marvel has dudes like Black Panther and Blade to bank on, two highly marketable and fleshed out characters who are head honchos of their own franchises.
    How is that different from Scott Lang or Carol Danvers?

    I wonder if mods will start deleting posts in this thread again, or if they only do that when Geoff Johns or Hal Jordan come up.

  15. #285

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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    How is that different from Scott Lang or Carol Danvers?

    I wonder if mods will start deleting posts in this thread again, or if they only do that when Geoff Johns or Hal Jordan come up.
    Could you elaborate please?

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