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  1. #1636
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    friendly reminder.



    Trust me you do not need to remind me lmao. I'm sick of waiting till January. So much DC content to look forward too.

  2. #1637
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    friendly reminder.



    I'm totally excited for this!!!! Can't wait!!

  3. #1638
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Ridley is going off more Post-Crisis continuity than New 52.

    He looks like Lex Luthor.

    I remember John and Guy were supposed to get Parallax forms in the Sinestro Corps. War originally.
    Yea, there was art for that. I can't remember which artist that had the original drawings of John and Guy as Parallax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I was disappointed in John's limited role in the Other History of the DCU, but, overall, I liked how it handled both Jefferson and John's relationship.

    I did not like the idea that John did actually try to shoot himself in the head several times, but the ring stopped him. I thought Cosmic Odyssey's original depiction of that was better, with J'Onn goading John angry to snap him out of it. Granted, Jefferson was hearing the story second or third hand, so that could explain the differences.

    I guess the idea that Lynn was John's sister has been completely dropped. Probably for the best. I don't think it would have added much to this particular story.
    This was the reason why I didn't care whether John was featured in this book. And by just reading your impression, I think Ridley would've done better to just leave John Stewart out. I'm tired of the same ol constant tragedy. Writers just can't get away with Xanshi in these story lines. And now John tried to shoot himself several times!? I don't think I'm gonna buy and read this one. It's starting to get really annoying. Xanshi happened 30 some years ago, let's be more innovative, instead of harping the same nonsense over and over.

    The biggest problem I have in writers is that when one writer tries to resolve the Xanshi problem, the next writer brings it back up. This happens numerous times right now. I think it's time for John to move on to something else.

  4. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    The biggest problem I have in writers is that when one writer tries to resolve the Xanshi problem, the next writer brings it back up. This happens numerous times right now. I think it's time for John to move on to something else.
    Well to defend Ridley-that was a big thing and sadly that was the only thing John got to do during that time.

    He was not trying to define John by that like so many others have tried to do. It was used as something for John and Jefferson to come together.

    Now why they didn't use Lynn nor mention she might be John's sister is another story. Is there some embargo that prevents that from being used?

    Or John losing a wife to a villain out of petty reasons.

  5. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    Yea, there was art for that. I can't remember which artist that had the original drawings of John and Guy as Parallax.



    This was the reason why I didn't care whether John was featured in this book. And by just reading your impression, I think Ridley would've done better to just leave John Stewart out. I'm tired of the same ol constant tragedy. Writers just can't get away with Xanshi in these story lines. And now John tried to shoot himself several times!? I don't think I'm gonna buy and read this one. It's starting to get really annoying. Xanshi happened 30 some years ago, let's be more innovative, instead of harping the same nonsense over and over.

    The biggest problem I have in writers is that when one writer tries to resolve the Xanshi problem, the next writer brings it back up. This happens numerous times right now. I think it's time for John to move on to something else.
    This might sound somewhat like a troll thing, but other than being a black Green Lantern from the 1970s, the Xanshi thing is, sadly, probably John's biggest contribution to comics. He's that superhero who blew up a planet. Next to being black, and the GL from the JL toon, that's what he's known for. It isn't an easy thing to get over, especially since the powers that be in comics are rotating in and out with such frequency these days that it's difficult for a consistent vision to take hold. And when a consistent vision HAS taken hold, it usually hasn't benefited John. It would take a concerted effort over a decent period of time for the character to get beyond the whole Xanshi fiasco, hence why he never does.

    First, he would have to do more important things in comics and in stories that fans feel "really matter", either because they're very important, very good, or both (ideally both). It's also kinda' hard to give him the focus he would really need because there are so many Lanterns that the breadth of focus has gotten too big. That, more than anything, is what took me from being a fan to being "meh" on the whole Green Lantern franchise. People can act like all these Green Lanterns make things "richer" or whatever, but there's a trade off to everything.

  6. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    This was the reason why I didn't care whether John was featured in this book. And by just reading your impression, I think Ridley would've done better to just leave John Stewart out. I'm tired of the same ol constant tragedy. Writers just can't get away with Xanshi in these story lines. And now John tried to shoot himself several times!? I don't think I'm gonna buy and read this one. It's starting to get really annoying. Xanshi happened 30 some years ago, let's be more innovative, instead of harping the same nonsense over and over.

    The biggest problem I have in writers is that when one writer tries to resolve the Xanshi problem, the next writer brings it back up. This happens numerous times right now. I think it's time for John to move on to something else.
    I think you should read it before leaping to conclusions about it. This book is a biography (more or less) of Jefferson Pierce and his relationship with other DC super-heroes (particularly black ones). Ridley couldn't just ignore the biggest/most consequential event that has happened to any black DC super-hero since... possibly ever. I actually think the way it was handled in this book (the insight it gave into both characters and how their relationship evolved because of it) is probably the best way that the Xanshi incident has ever been referenced.

    It also makes me want to see Ridley spotlight John Stewart in a sequel series so we can get his perspective of many of these events.
    Last edited by Blacula; 11-29-2020 at 05:34 PM.

  7. #1642
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacula View Post
    I think you should read it before leaping to conclusions about it. This book is a biography (more or less) of Jefferson Pierce and his relationship with other DC super-heroes (particularly black ones). Ridley couldn't just ignore the biggest/most consequential event that has happened to any black DC super-hero since... possibly ever. I actually think the way it was handled in this book (the insight it gave into both characters and how their relationship evolved because of it) is probably the best way that the Xanshi incident has ever been referenced.

    It also makes me want to see Ridley spotlight John Stewart in a sequel series so we can get his perspective of many of these events.
    We've gotten John's perspective, over and over and over again. Why spend money on it another time?

  8. #1643
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    We've gotten John's perspective, over and over and over again. Why spend money on it another time?
    in what books have we gotten John's perspective on most or any of the events in this book? we barely see John INTERACT with other black heroes, let alone get his perspective and impressions as heroes of color as they pop up on the scene. what you talking about?
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 11-29-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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  9. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    in what books have we gotten John's perspective on most or any of the events in this book? we barely see John INTERACT with other black heroes, let alone get his perspective and impressions as heroes of color as they pop up on the scene. what you talking about?
    For the most part the blowing up of that planet has been USED as a weapon to define John.

    From Fatality's creation to other books having John put on trial for it to even one of his trading cards mentioning it.

    The complaint many of us have had is that being the ONLY thing defining him.

    Hal went nuts and became a villain. Distrust by other lanterns was bought up at least ONCE. It never defined him. Heck it got to the point I forgot he went nuts because so much other stuff from Blackest Night to Sinestro Corps and others things defined Hal.

    It's not the interacting with other black folks-it's that planet.

    40+ years and that is all John has to his name. That is the issue.

    Same issue Bumblebee and Mal will have. 40+ years and what do they have?

    This is the price of having black characters contribute NOTHING to DC's history.

  10. #1645
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    ^^^ Well, I mean that's EXACTLY what 'The Other History of the DC Universe' is here to explore: what were the black (and other minority) heroes of the DCU doing while all these events were happening? What's the OTHER history that we never actually got to read?

    FWIW, I get why people are frustrated about Xanshi being repeatedly brought up in stories about John (in modern day tales; it would be ludicrous to address John's past and not mention it). It's disappointing that one of the Top 2 or 3 black heroes in the DCU is chiefly associated with a tragic failure. But it's not so much the "failure" part that causes writers to bring it up so much; it's the "tragic" part. So many of the top super-heroes in comics are defined and driven by the tragedies of their past (Batman and his parents; Superman and his planet; Spider-Man and his uncle; the Hulk and his accident); tragedy is a powerful tool for storytelling and John never really had one until Xanshi. Now he has a serious mental obstacle to overcome and a compelling reason to keep adventuring and that's a GOOD THING for his character because those are the things a lot of writers look for.

    (By the way, I'm not saying every super-hero needs a tragic past to be successful. Green Lantern and Flash worked fine for years without one. But it helps because a lot of writers don't understand what can drive a hero if not tragedy, hence why Geoff Johns gave them a dead Dad and a dead Mom respectively.)

  11. #1646
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    The biggest problem I have in writers is that when one writer tries to resolve the Xanshi problem, the next writer brings it back up. This happens numerous times right now. I think it's time for John to move on to something else.
    Don't become a Hawkman fan, dude. It will only bring you pain.

    I'm ready for John to move on from Xanshi too. Between that and Katma, he's suffered a lot and given he's a goddamn architect, I'd like to see him channel that depression and build something, either literal or metaphorical. Superheroes are generally aspirational. He's grieved long enough. Show him turn that trauma into something. At this point it's just torture porn that's designed to keep him in place.

    Those Campbell covers are too pretty. I'm not religious and even I think I'm sinning by looking at them. They're that good. Goddamn.
    Last edited by Robanker; 11-30-2020 at 04:01 AM.

  12. #1647
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I think it's pretty clear that this is just Jefferson's impression and while it might make sense why John could appear this way to him, that he wasn't being fair to John.
    The story does make it clear that Jeff's perspective on events isn't always entirely accurate.

    His initial take on Vixen compared to what she actually accomplished is another example of this.

  13. #1648
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    For the most part the blowing up of that planet has been USED as a weapon to define John.

    From Fatality's creation to other books having John put on trial for it to even one of his trading cards mentioning it.

    The complaint many of us have had is that being the ONLY thing defining him.

    Hal went nuts and became a villain. Distrust by other lanterns was bought up at least ONCE. It never defined him. Heck it got to the point I forgot he went nuts because so much other stuff from Blackest Night to Sinestro Corps and others things defined Hal.

    It's not the interacting with other black folks-it's that planet.

    40+ years and that is all John has to his name. That is the issue.

    Same issue Bumblebee and Mal will have. 40+ years and what do they have?

    This is the price of having black characters contribute NOTHING to DC's history.
    Exactly. Just because he's talking about it with a Black hero this time around doesn't change anything. We've seen him mope over it, we've seen it held against him by other characters, we've seen him get passed it, and we've seen later attempts to recreate John as a planet killer, etc. How many more times does this story need to be told? It's not compelling and never has been.

    For all he's done for Black Panther, Christopher Priest is an example that just because you're a Black writer, doesn't mean you're good for every Black character. He's never written a good John Stewart story, and he'll be writing another GL as a backup feature in future state. Give me Jensen, Venditti, or Bendis for John over him any day. (At least he's not as bad as Eric Wallace was for Mr. Terrific and Ryan Choi.)

    [He who shall not be named] knowingly dates an underage girl, destroys the Corps, and wipes out reality, but that's all retconned and forgotten. The Black character gets no such luck. Growing up I remember hearing, "They get 3, 4 ,5 chances, but people like us get one."

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne McDuffie View Post
    Dwayne McDuffie on “In Blackest Night” (circa 2004): [“In Blackest Night”] was based on an old seventies comic. In both the comic and the show—as opposed to Cosmic Odyssey, [where] Green Lantern was an arrogant fuck-up—he was tricked into believing he did something wrong and honorably agreed to take his punishment. […] I’d never punk out John Stewart like [they did in Cosmic Odyssey]. I’m still mad
    http://jl.popgeeks.com/episode2/episode2.htm

    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 11-30-2020 at 09:41 AM.

  14. #1649
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    [He who shall not be named] knowingly dates an underage girl, destroys the Corps, and wipes out reality, but that's all retconned and forgotten. The Black character gets no such luck. Growing up I remember hearing, "They get 3, 4 ,5 chances, but people like us get one."
    First of all, Arisia was not an underage girl but a fully-grown woman mentally and physically when Hal dated her. That has been discussed in this forum many times. Second, Hal got another chance because he was, and has been the most popular Green Lantern and the carrier of the franchise. Not because he is white. You wanna know who is f-ed up and beyond redemption? A white man named Hank Pym.

  15. #1650
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    First of all, Arisia was not an underage girl but a fully-grown woman mentally and physically when Hal dated her. That has been discussed in this forum many times.
    That's a retcon. The character knew he was in the wrong going into it.



    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    Second, Hal got another chance because he was, and has been the most popular Green Lantern and the carrier of the franchise. Not because he is white. You wanna know who is f-ed up and beyond redemption? A white man named Hank Pym.
    I think what the character above has done is worse. He's the center of attention despite John being the most well-known Lantern circa 2001-2004 because he's not a person of color. Periodt. He got another chance because folks couldn't imagine a Black character leading the franchise. Had Guy Gardner or Kyle Rayner been the star of the show, DC would've spotlighted them back then and likely til now.

    White characters get all of these chances and retcons, but Black character don't in a deliberate effort to keep them in their place, hidden behind a BS, disproven narrative that Black characters will never sell as well as White ones. Can't get too uppity, so all you get is characters who are primarily focused on being Black rather than just happen to be Black or you get some disfigured, (literally) neutered thing, lol.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 11-30-2020 at 01:44 PM.

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