John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2020

[Holt]

I assume them pointing out that there was a period where those two were considered the #2/second banana to their respective primary character (Mar-Vell and Hank Pym) but now anchor big movies and are much more visible than them.

Of course, in this comparison, the big variable would have to be someone at WB caring enough to make John the main character of a movie and not just Hal Jordan's sidekick/partner.

[Shockingjustice]

That could be true if kyle was used in outside media like movies,animation and video games but guess who was picked,hell even on crossover comics with green lantern with star trek and planet of the apes kyle didn't appear and in the other he was dead DC doesn't mistreat John fans are just mad that he isn't on hal's position.

I get it but to see others complain about one but then not acknowledge bigger issues with a franchise that is big enough for all the fans is really comes across as victim playing.

Dude you're kind of being passive aggressive. We understand it sucks that Guy and Kyle are in limbo and we are not saying John is worst off than them. But if you been reading JL then you understand not a lot is being done with John. You say that being on the biggest team is great for him, but that's but that's not true if he's not being develop. Imagine if this was Kyle and he just kind of stood around, said some lines, then did stuff in the background would you think that was a great portrayal. Cyborg was also on the biggest team and guess what, he was practically ripped apart every other issues and was considered boring.

Plus while it's true John is portrayed in outside material has he really hasn't had any defining moments that don't involve him blowing up a planet. John's mosaic story was written by a pedophile. Geoff Johns doesn't have a good track record with writing John. Kyle was the main star of green lantern before and a white lantern, and guy headed the red lanterns for a good while. I understand your upset over what's happening with Kyle but there is no need for you to attack John fans just like John fans shouldn't attack Hal fans.

[docmidnite]

That could be true if kyle was used in outside media like movies,animation and video games but guess who was picked,hell even on crossover comics with green lantern with star trek and planet of the apes kyle didn't appear and in the other he was dead DC doesn't mistreat John fans are just mad that he isn't on hal's position.

I get it but to see others complain about one but then not acknowledge bigger issues with a franchise that is big enough for all the fans is really comes across as victim playing.

Oh please. Kyle fans get no sympathy from me.

Not only did they retcon it so Hal was seeing the destruction of Coast City for the first time (even though Hal WAS there when Coast City was destroyed and had already accepted it's loss and went palling around with Ollie right after and was about to start his own flight school) so he could go nuts and destroy the entire GLC just to make room for Kyle as the one and only GL, they also completely ignored that John was a Guardian who was mentally connected to the other Guardians and could have easily stopped Hal by himself and saved the GLC.

But noooo. They needed to have Kyle be the one and only so bad that they turned Hal into a whiny poor man's Sinestro to get rid of the GLC that was still in the midst of being rebuilt, ignored John's Guardianship, stripped John of his Guardian powers, crippled John and demoted him to being a Darkstar (because they no longer considered John good enough to be a GL next to the almighty Kyle) stripped Guy of his yellow ring (because Guy was no longer worthy of being a ring slinger next to the almighty Kyle) stripped Alan Scott of his ring and his title (because only Kyle should be called Green Lantern and have a power ring) stripped Jade of her Starheart powers and reduced her to being Kyle's arm candy when before she was an important character in her own right and a leading character in Infinity Inc. crippled John again and reduced all of these characters to background supporting roles to the almighty Kyle so they wouldn't be front and center and be able to compete with the almighty Kyle for a little bit over 10 years

I'm sorry, but Kyle fans are the last GL fans that should be complaining about anything after the way all of the other GL's were treated for a long time because of Kyle and the way Kyle fans kept telling all of the other GL fans to "just get over it"

[skyvolt2000]

That could be true if kyle was used in outside media like movies,animation and video games but guess who was picked,hell even on crossover comics with green lantern with star trek and planet of the apes kyle didn't appear and in the other he was dead DC doesn't mistreat John fans are just mad that he isn't on hal's position.

Kyle's use in outside media is only allowed by DC-if they don't allow it, not much anyone can do about it.
As for Green Lantern Planet of the Apes & Star Trek-that is a question to ask the writer-Matt Johnson. Who had Hal say Kyle was killed.

I get it but to see others complain about one but then not acknowledge bigger issues with a franchise that is big enough for all the fans is really comes across as victim playing.

Funny only JOHN fans keep getting lectured to.

Now the lecture needs to be given to DC-how is it that other franchises have no issue SHARING yet this one does. Where EVERYBODY gets some respect. That is best for business.

Because that is where it falls back to DC Comics for allowing this to get this bad.

[Shockingjustice]

Honestly can we not argue in the appreciation thread. We get enough people saying John threads are the worst because o4d arguments. It's not any one of the character faults that they are in the position they're in. Kyle is a great character as well as John.

All we are saying is that we would like to see John get more stories that are like the ones Kyle and Hal have.

[Vampire Savior]

It's another sign of too many GL's. It's not the main one that suffers, really. It's all those mini ones that have to fight with each other over limited panel space and exposure. And now the argument of who is the most disenfranchised is a topic of discussion. With John and Kyle, it's an interesting topic. John has a considerably higher profile in general awareness, but he only really has one short comic series where he is really the star of the show, and it was written by a convicted pedophile, which tarnishes the whole thing and will keep it from ever being celebrated and revisited (not that it was before, but it definitely won't be now). John has some other key runs like his stint in the 80s and the Van Jensen GLC run, and I guess the six issue Lost Army if you want to mention that, but ALL John Stewart runs are of relatively very limited length. Furthermore, he doesn't matter to the overall mythology of Green Lantern. When I think about it, I really believe you could remove John Stewart from Green Lantern entirely, and you wouldn't change that much, if at all. The most important thing John did was fill in for Hal when Hal quit the GL Corps, but the important event is that Hal quit the GL Corps.

Kyle lacks outside media presence, but he was the main Green Lantern protagonist for 10 years, and John Stewart was never really the main Green Lantern protagonist. The closest he got was his short time as Green Lantern of Earth in the 80s, but I would say he co-starred with Hal Jordan. And Kyle Rayner matters a whole lot more to Green Lantern mythology than John Stewart.

Who really winds up being short changed more? I think that's actually a good question. Kyle doesn't matter to ANYONE except (some) comic readers, and likely less and less as time goes on and Kyle doesn't do anything of any importance, and John Stewart basically has nothing going on for him in comics and doesn't have much history as a leading man despite being around for 50 years.

It's an interesting thing to consider, but I will say now that the Justice League cartoon and Kyle Rayner's run as GL are both long behind us that John Stewart has walked away with more general relevance than Kyle Rayner today. So, it's kind of weird. John kind of matters more to Green Lantern than Kyle in one sense, but John doesn't matter at all to Green Lantern in another sense. It's a really weird situation, and I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

I think I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it was really cool the way Justice League reinvented John Stewart and totally skyrockted his profile out of nowhere...but...I can't help but walk away with the feeling that it was kind of false advertising. Who's to blame for that? I dunno'. I guess you could blame DC for not following suit with the cartoon and capitalizing on John Stewart, or you can blame Bruce Timm and co. for presenting a warped view of Green Lantern that isn't all that faithful to what you'll find in the comics, at least regarding John Stewart's role and importance.

Well, it's interesting stuff to ponder.

[LP22]

It's another sign of too many GL's. It's not the main one that suffers, really. It's all those mini ones that have to fight with each other over limited panel space and exposure. And now the argument of who is the most disenfranchised is a topic of discussion. With John and Kyle, it's an interesting topic. John has a considerably higher profile in general awareness, but he only really has one short comic series where he is really the star of the show, and it was written by a convicted pedophile, which tarnishes the whole thing and will keep it from ever being celebrated and revisited (not that it was before, but it definitely won't be now). John has some other key runs like his stint in the 80s and the Van Jensen GLC run, and I guess the six issue Lost Army if you want to mention that, but ALL John Stewart runs are of relatively very limited length. Furthermore, he doesn't matter to the overall mythology of Green Lantern. When I think about it, I really believe you could remove John Stewart from Green Lantern entirely, and you wouldn't change that much, if at all. The most important thing John did was fill in for Hal when Hal quit the GL Corps, but the important event is that Hal quit the GL Corps.

Kyle lacks outside media presence, but he was the main Green Lantern protagonist for 10 years, and John Stewart was never really the main Green Lantern protagonist. The closest he got was his short time as Green Lantern of Earth in the 80s, but I would say he co-starred with Hal Jordan. And Kyle Rayner matters a whole lot more to Green Lantern mythology than John Stewart.

Who really winds up being short changed more? I think that's actually a good question. Kyle doesn't matter to ANYONE except (some) comic readers, and likely less and less as time goes on and Kyle doesn't do anything of any importance, and John Stewart basically has nothing going on for him in comics and doesn't have much history as a leading man despite being around for 50 years.

It's an interesting thing to consider, but I will say now that the Justice League cartoon and Kyle Rayner's run as GL are both long behind us that John Stewart has walked away with more general relevance than Kyle Rayner today. So, it's kind of weird. John kind of matters more to Green Lantern than Kyle in one sense, but John doesn't matter at all to Green Lantern in another sense. It's a really weird situation, and I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

I think I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it was really cool the way Justice League reinvented John Stewart and totally skyrockted his profile out of nowhere...but...I can't help but walk away with the feeling that it was kind of false advertising. Who's to blame for that? I dunno'. I guess you could blame DC for not following suit with the cartoon and capitalizing on John Stewart, or you can blame Bruce Timm and co. for presenting a warped view of Green Lantern that isn't all that faithful to what you'll find in the comics, at least regarding John Stewart's role and importance.

Well, it's interesting stuff to ponder.

WOW great writing,what frustrates me right now is how DC treat kyle outside media and especially comic it feels like he was swallowed underground and disappeared and with the G5 rumours I'm more than worry that we won't see him or any other earth Lanterns it's really infuriating.

[Dr. Ellingham]

John has some other key runs like his stint in the 80s and the Van Jensen GLC run, and I guess the six issue Lost Army if you want to mention that, but ALL John Stewart runs are of relatively very limited length. Furthermore, he doesn't matter to the overall mythology of Green Lantern. When I think about it, I really believe you could remove John Stewart from Green Lantern entirely, and you wouldn't change that much, if at all.

Great post, agreed on all points. Two things I'll add:

1. Optimistically speaking, everything you laid out can neatly be filed into the bucket of "up to now". DC hasn't invested in John Stewart-driven stories since Mosaic ended. I know the odds aren't great, but...DC could create a series with John. Pessimistically, I'm not holding my breath; DC hasn't ever treated John as more than a team book / supporting character - except Gerard Jones. Unfortunately.

2. Within the context of JLU, the Marine John Stewart persona worked really well. But it's not the character from the prior 2 decades. At all. In a continuity without a Hal Jordan, the "man of action" JS from JLU makes a lot of sense. Whereas in the DCU, John is a more cerebral, thoughtful character. (Or at least, he was in the 80s/90s.) I get why Tomasi and Johns wanted to fuse the comics John with JLU John, but I don't think the amalgam makes much sense. And the "synergy" angle is gone anyway.

Which I guess is a long way of saying I like pre-Rebirth John Stewart at least a little more than JLU John, and a lot more than the hybrid version.

[Holt]

John will be in the Apokolips War animated movie.

Tony Todd (Candyman, The Flash) is voice of the film’s the key villain, Darkseid. The cast also boasts appearances by Camilla Luddington (Grey’s Anatomy) as Zatanna, Ray Chase (Justice League Dark, Final Fantasy XV video game) as Jason Blood/Etrigan, Roger R. Cross (24, The Strain, Arrow) as John Stewart & Swamp Thing, Liam McIntyre (Spartacus: War of the Damned, The Flash) as Captain Boomerang, Hynden Walch (Teen Titans Go! Vs. Teen Titans) as Harley Quinn, Stuart Allan (Batman vs. Robin, Batman: Bad Blood) as Robin/Damian, Sachie Alessio (Batman: Hush) as Lady Shiva, and John DiMaggio (Futurama, Batman: Under the Red Hood) as King Shark.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/21/...cast-revealed/

[Vordan]

John will be in the Apokolips War animated movie.


https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/21/...cast-revealed/

I keep hoping the DCAMU will start branching out into the GLverse with movies. The GL animated movies in the past sold well so I can’t understand why they don’t make more. It’s nice to have John finally confirmed to exist in that universe though.

[El_Gato]

I keep hoping the DCAMU will start branching out into the GLverse with movies. The GL animated movies in the past sold well so I can’t understand why they don’t make more. It’s nice to have John finally confirmed to exist in that universe though.

He made his debut in the Justice League Dark animated movie, so he’s just returning here. So far only Hal and John exist in the DCAMU.

[sifighter]

John will be in the Apokolips War animated movie.


https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/21/...cast-revealed/

I’m personally excited for this, hope this means that we will see an awesome moment with him and Hal while fighting Darkseid. I don’t know maybe something like he comes in with the green lantern corps cavalry or something, just something cool is all I really hope for.

[Sodam Yat]

John will be in the Apokolips War animated movie.


https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/21/...cast-revealed/

This is interesting. I'm hoping John's role will be decent in this film. It'll be cool to see some nice John Stewart action moments.

[Sodam Yat]

I keep hoping the DCAMU will start branching out into the GLverse with movies. The GL animated movies in the past sold well so I can’t understand why they don’t make more. It’s nice to have John finally confirmed to exist in that universe though.

He did have an appearance in JL: Dark, though. Although John's appearance was ok and his fight with Batman was poorly written, at least he got his foot in the door. So I'm expecting him to have a similar presence in this upcoming animated movie.

[Crazy Diamond]

It's another sign of too many GL's. It's not the main one that suffers, really. It's all those mini ones that have to fight with each other over limited panel space and exposure. And now the argument of who is the most disenfranchised is a topic of discussion. With John and Kyle, it's an interesting topic. John has a considerably higher profile in general awareness, but he only really has one short comic series where he is really the star of the show, and it was written by a convicted pedophile, which tarnishes the whole thing and will keep it from ever being celebrated and revisited (not that it was before, but it definitely won't be now). John has some other key runs like his stint in the 80s and the Van Jensen GLC run, and I guess the six issue Lost Army if you want to mention that, but ALL John Stewart runs are of relatively very limited length. Furthermore, he doesn't matter to the overall mythology of Green Lantern. When I think about it, I really believe you could remove John Stewart from Green Lantern entirely, and you wouldn't change that much, if at all. The most important thing John did was fill in for Hal when Hal quit the GL Corps, but the important event is that Hal quit the GL Corps.

Kyle lacks outside media presence, but he was the main Green Lantern protagonist for 10 years, and John Stewart was never really the main Green Lantern protagonist. The closest he got was his short time as Green Lantern of Earth in the 80s, but I would say he co-starred with Hal Jordan. And Kyle Rayner matters a whole lot more to Green Lantern mythology than John Stewart.

Who really winds up being short changed more? I think that's actually a good question. Kyle doesn't matter to ANYONE except (some) comic readers, and likely less and less as time goes on and Kyle doesn't do anything of any importance, and John Stewart basically has nothing going on for him in comics and doesn't have much history as a leading man despite being around for 50 years.

It's an interesting thing to consider, but I will say now that the Justice League cartoon and Kyle Rayner's run as GL are both long behind us that John Stewart has walked away with more general relevance than Kyle Rayner today. So, it's kind of weird. John kind of matters more to Green Lantern than Kyle in one sense, but John doesn't matter at all to Green Lantern in another sense. It's a really weird situation, and I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

I think I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it was really cool the way Justice League reinvented John Stewart and totally skyrockted his profile out of nowhere...but...I can't help but walk away with the feeling that it was kind of false advertising. Who's to blame for that? I dunno'. I guess you could blame DC for not following suit with the cartoon and capitalizing on John Stewart, or you can blame Bruce Timm and co. for presenting a warped view of Green Lantern that isn't all that faithful to what you'll find in the comics, at least regarding John Stewart's role and importance.

Well, it's interesting stuff to ponder.

Bruce Timm and them can't be blamed for using the Green Lantern they preferred. What Timm, Dini, Mcduffie, hell even Lamarr did with John Stewart was a response to how he was being handled in the comics at the time. It wasn't any different than what Tomasi did with Guy or what Johns, Van Sciver, and Didio did with Hal. It also helped that the Justice League cartoon got to take what worked in the comics and avoid the stuff that didn't which made for one of the best portrayals of the League.

The point about Kyle is interesting in that what I think led to his downfall was that he was not enough of a break from Hal Jordan. Sure he had fancier constructs but for the most part he used them to do the same stuff Hal did with his constructs and I don't recall him doing stuff like bringing people back to life or teleporting or even enhancing his body like Hal, John, Guy and I think even Katma did. The art was nice no doubt (wish Banks had a better inker and colorist in the beginning) but once you realize that he's just punching a person in the face then it's like "Is this really all that different from fists and bubbles?"

His enemies were remixes of Hal's and the few who weren't were either killed off by Johns (damn shame imo) or written into a corner (think that was Johns's fault as well). Or straight up forgotten about. Even his supporting cast hasn't shown up in a long time because Green Lantern was so focused on space. It's like the whole everyman basis for his character which was cribbed from Spider-Man was completely excised from his character by the time the New 52 came around.

In the case of John Stewart there's the argument that despite being a legacy character he was one of the first Black characters at DC so there wasn't really a template to go off of (in comics at least) for how he was characterized compared to Kyle. There were moments where John could've been a lead but that would've required ending Hal's story and not making him the focus like how DC did with Alan Scott. In a way they did end Hal's story when he quit but then they brought him back after Crisis on Infinite Earths and it became apparent that they didn't know what to do with Hal which led to "brilliant" stories which eventually ended with Emerald Twilight. To me the time to really pull the trigger with John was during the period with Wein and later on Englehart but for whatever reason they brought Hal back.

I guess it's all in how you look at it: Is it better to be a temporary replacement but somewhat unique with wasted potential or to be an intended permanent lead who never really goes to the next level?

As far as cerebral John goes, even that I think wasn't a primary trait of his character till Mosaic from what I remember reading. Until they killed Katma sure he was well read and educated but he had a sense of humor and hints of life outside of Green Lantern. It would've been nice to see more of his life in Detroit. That being said my ideal John Stewart would take the best parts of JL/JLU, 80s, early 90s, and even some of the more recent characterizations he's had. I remember reading one story that was alright where he went to a planet that had its beings dealing with a colonial empire and it was interesting seeing how he went about solving that problem. It also mentioned that Stewart was a socialist though I don't know if the writer really got the implications of having a superhero who was also a socialist. I would like to see that explored more but that's just me.