John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2020

[Holt]

Mal was actively a member of the Teen Titans, so he has John beat. Not having a codename is just a formality.

[skyvolt2000]

Black Panther debuted over at Marvel in 1966, with Black (Gabe Jones, 1963) and Asian (Jim Morita, 1967) Howling Commandos in desegregated military units being published earlier. Bill Foster appeared in 1966 but didn't become Goliath until 1975. Falcon appeared in 1969. Sunfire appeared in 1970. Luke Cage debuted in 1972. Storm appeared in 1975. Stan, Jack, and Marvel were ahead of the curve.

If I go by Redjack's Twitter post from 2018- DC had policies that restricted the intro of POC and that is why they were and still are behind.

John is first by two years. If you go by having powers.

Mal is first if you just base him just being with the Titans.

[SecretWarrior]

Mal was actively a member of the Teen Titans, so he has John beat. Not having a codename is just a formality.

Nah, you've got to have a superhero identity, or else Alfred qualifies as a superhero member of the Bat Family and Jarvis is an Avenger. Mal was just the Rick Jones/Wendy/Marvin to the Teen Titans until he became Guardian.

[Holt]

Nah, you've got to have a superhero identity, or else Alfred qualifies as a superhero member of the Bat Family and Jarvis is an Avenger. Mal was just the Rick Jones/Wendy/Marvin to the Teen Titans until he became Guardian.

That'd be a fitting comparison if Alfred or Jarvis actively went out on field missions with the heroes and actually regularly fought bad guys. Mal was not the support staff who stayed at home on monitor duty.

Nah, you've got to have a superhero identity

By this logic Shang-Chi is not a superhero despite being a member of the Avengers. Or Jean Grey. And don't forget Thor or Hercules!

[SecretWarrior]

That'd be a fitting comparison if Alfred or Jarvis actively went out on field missions with the heroes and actually regularly fought bad guys. Mal was not the support staff who stayed at home on monitor duty.



By this logic Shang-Chi is not a superhero despite being a member of the Avengers. Or Jean Grey. And don't forget Thor or Hercules!

Mal didn't debut with superhuman martial arts skills; Jean Grey, Thor, and Herc all have powers; and Jean debuted with a codename. If Shang Chi didn't have superhuman skills, he would not qualify as more than a spy character. (Not every comic book headliner is a superhero, see Jimmy Olsen, Mary Jane, etc.)

The superhero elements, first modeled by Superman, are: codename, costume, and powers. The more of those you have, the more you fit the convention, but you really only need one of those elements in comics to qualify these days. Mal had none of them at his debut. He operated as a helpful civilian like Rick Jones, Wendy, Marvin, etc. Time and again, the X-men have had non-powered human partnerships (Charlotte Jones, Moira MacTaggert, Sadie Sinclair, Candy Southern, etc.), but these characters do not qualify as superheroes. Also, Alfred has gone into the field, as have Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Jim Gordon, etc., not that that is a prerequisite, since Oracle qualifies as a superhero.

[SecretWarrior]

[Holt]

Mal didn't debut with superhuman martial arts skills; Jean Grey, Thor, and Herc all have powers; and Jean debuted with a codename. If Shang Chi didn't have superhuman skills, he would not qualify as more than a spy character. (Not every comic book headliner is a superhero, see Jimmy Olsen, Mary Jane, etc.) The superhero elements, first modeled by Superman, are: codename, costume, and powers. The more of those you have, the more you fit the convention, but you really only need one of those elements in comics to qualify these days.

That seems like arbitrary hairsplitting. Like I said, he was an active member of the Titans and fought bad guys and went on missions with them. He's a superhero.

[SecretWarrior]

That seems like arbitrary hairsplitting. Like I said, he was an active member of the Titans and fought bad guys and went on missions with them. He's a superhero.

By your logic, any distinction would qualify as hairsplitting since you don't have a clear definition or parameters for being a superhero. Fighting bad guys and going on missions without any superhuman abilities, identity, or costume, just makes you Jason Bourne. Jim Gordon, Renee Montoya (pre-Question), and Harvey Bullock have gone on missions with Batman in the field, but they're not superheroes. Mal Duncan (pre-Guardian), Rick Jones (pre-A-Bomb), and Snapper Carr are not superheroes.

Bruce Wayne had all of his abilities before becoming Batman, but he wasn't a superhero until he adopted the Batman identity (code name and costume).

[Holt]

By your logic, any distinction would qualify as hairsplitting since you don't have a clear definition or parameters for being a superhero. Fighting bad guys and going on missions without any superhuman abilities, identity, or costume, just makes you Jason Bourne.

If Jason Bourne were on a team with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and was fighting supervillains, yeah, I'd totally consider him a superhero.

[Samm]

Mal Duncan is DC’s first Black superhero, and Bumblebee is DC’s first Black female superhero, this is common knowledge. Sorry John Stewart and Vixen, but y’all can’t argue with facts. The Titans had the first non White superheroes at DC, not the League.

[SecretWarrior]

If Jason Bourne were on a team with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and was fighting supervillains, yeah, I'd totally consider him a superhero.

Well, you're wrong. Just fighting alongside superheroes, doesn't make you one, or else Peggy Carter, Sharon Carter, the Howling Commandos, SHIELD, and the entire Ultimates military boots-on-the-ground support staff would qualify as superheroes.

[SecretWarrior]

Mal Duncan is DC’s first Black superhero, and Bumblebee is DC’s first Black female superhero, this is common knowledge. Sorry John Stewart and Vixen, but y’all can’t argue with facts. The Titans had the first non White superheroes at DC, not the League.

Just saying it without any parameters doesn't make it so. Mal didn't meet the definition outlined above until he became Guardian.

I mean, does Loren Jupiter qualify as a superhero too?

[Holt]

Well, you're wrong.

Nope, sorry.

r else Peggy Carter, Sharon Carter,

Zero problems there.

[SecretWarrior]

Nope, sorry.



Zero problems there.

Okay, if Peggy Carter and Sharon Cater qualify, why not the Howling Commandos, every SHIELD agent, and the entire Ultimates military boots-on-the-ground support staff?

Your feelings?

Ebony White debuted in 1940 and fought alongside the Spirit. Is he a superhero?

[Holt]

Okay, if Peggy Carter and Sharon Cater qualify, why not the Howling Commandos, every SHIELD agent, and the entire Ultimates military boots-on-the-ground support staff?

Your feelings?

If they were active parts of the Avengers roster? Sure. Nick Fury, Mockingbird, Jimmy Woo and Black Widow are superheroes after all.