John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2020

[SecretWarrior]

[SecretWarrior]

I can kind of relate to what John Ridley is saying. For me, original characters are far more interesting, which is why I would like to see Jefferson Pierce as a permanent member of the Justice League and promoted as DC's top African American hero.

That of course doesn't mean that John Stewart can't be in the JLA at the same time, you can two, three, or potentially more African American heroes on the league at once.

The problem with Green Lantern is that there are 6 prominent Green Lanterns now, which means John can be replaced at anytime. If his comic series flops, they might go back to Hal, or they might go with Jessica or Kyle to try to capture the market share of a growing demographic.

If a Black Lightning series is cancelled, they can just reboot it up in 2 to 5 years time. If a John Stewart series is cancelled, fans might be waiting another 30 years, because there are so many other options.

With Black Lightning there are no knock offs, once he has his own title and is in the JLA, he's there permanently. He is non-replacable. John Stewart can be replaced on the JLA at any given time by another GL.

The Black Lightning IP doesn't have the characteristics of a global franchise, for a number of reasons. And Black Lightning can be replaced like any other character, from Superman to Batman to Wonder Woman to Black Panther.

From a storytelling and character design perspective, John is recognized as DC's Black paragon. Black Lightning is a c- or b-lister at best. Like a lot of white characters, even Justice League and Justice Society founders, his franchise will never reach Trinity status.

There's also rights ownership issues with the character. If Tony Isabella wanted Jefferson to be featured consistently, he could have made an agreement like William Moulton Marston did with Wonder Woman, where if the character is taken out of monthly circulation, the rights revert to his estate. Milestone could have done this as well, but apparently the original creators need to work on or approve the works with those characters and require a profit cut.



The relevant thread: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

[SecretWarrior]

In the context of the quote above, I think Ridley is just saying he chose to focus on Jefferson because he's essentially a Black-er character. As cheesey as it is, he owns the word "Black" in his name, operates in an urban environment (which is linked to Black people for some reason, even though we're everywhere), works with poor black students (see Black Lightning: Year One), is more often seen with his Black family members, and, with the exception of the Young Justice cartoon, he exclusively dates Black women.

[Holt]

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp...dley-interview

John Ridley talks John Stewart and why he wasn't the focus for Other Side of DC.








Can someone tell him JOhn has been DEFINED by that or 30 years.

I get what he's saying. BL has a better defined supporting cast and the social justice bent of the character provides a lot to dig into. It's a bit ironic; the Justice League cartoon made John a star and was the main reason he didn't fade away after the 90s, but in some ways I feel like later writers overdid the Marine background to the detriment of everything else. A lot of writers boil his entire character down to A) Veteran and B) Cries about Xanshi.

Now this John, this John would have a lot of potential in our current world and would be a good fit for the kind of story Ridley is telling.

[The no face guy]

The Black Lightning IP doesn't have the characteristics of a global franchise, for a number of reasons. And Black Lightning can be replaced like any other character, from Superman to Batman to Wonder Woman to Black Panther.

From a storytelling and character design perspective, John is recognized as DC's Black paragon. Black Lightning is a c- or b-lister at best. Like a lot of white characters, even Justice League and Justice Society founders, his franchise will never reach Trinity status.

There's also rights ownership issues with the character. If Tony Isabella wanted Jefferson to be featured consistently, he could have made an agreement like William Moulton Marston did with Wonder Woman, where if the character is taken out of monthly circulation, the rights revert to his estate. Milestone could have done this as well, but apparently the original creators need to work on or approve the works with those characters and require a profit cut.



The relevant thread: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

I don't agree, yes Black Lightning can be replaced like Batman or Superman, but he doesn't have several duplicate heroes in waiting to take his place. John Stewart has 5 Green Lanterns that can take his place at anytime, you cannot build a global franchise when Hal or Kyle & even Jessica could star in a movie, cartoon, or lead GL in a comic at any given time.

Black Lightning is a historically popular character that currently has something John Stewart does not have, a Netflix tv show going into it's fourth season. That is something you can start to build a foundation on.

[Samm]

The Black Lightning IP doesn't have the characteristics of a global franchise, for a number of reasons. And Black Lightning can be replaced like any other character, from Superman to Batman to Wonder Woman to Black Panther.

From a storytelling and character design perspective, John is recognized as DC's Black paragon. Black Lightning is a c- or b-lister at best. Like a lot of white characters, even Justice League and Justice Society founders, his franchise will never reach Trinity status.

There's also rights ownership issues with the character. If Tony Isabella wanted Jefferson to be featured consistently, he could have made an agreement like William Moulton Marston did with Wonder Woman, where if the character is taken out of monthly circulation, the rights revert to his estate. Milestone could have done this as well, but apparently the original creators need to work on or approve the works with those characters and require a profit cut.



The relevant thread: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

As much as I like John, he isn’t the sole Green Lantern nor does he have ownership of the Green Lantern mythos. He still has to compete with Hal Jordan and recently Jessica Cruz as well. At any moment they can sub out John for one of the two mentioned above, and in the case of Jessica it’s a two for one (Latina and a woman). So I get why DC/Ridley would want to push Black Lightning instead. He’s an original creation, doesn’t have to compete with other versions and everything connects to him in the mythos (ie his daughters, enemies, powerset, setting...etc). I don’t think there’s any rights issues anymore either

[Holt]

Trinity Crisis #1 preview.

[Sodam Yat]

Great art! Nice to see John standing in front of the other Green Lanterns for a change.

Looks like John doesn't have a tattoo ring. The artist may not be aware of John ever having a tattoo ring

[SecretWarrior]

I don't agree, yes Black Lightning can be replaced like Batman or Superman, but he doesn't have several duplicate heroes in waiting to take his place. John Stewart has 5 Green Lanterns that can take his place at anytime, you cannot build a global franchise when Hal or Kyle & even Jessica could star in a movie, cartoon, or lead GL in a comic at any given time.

Black Lightning is a historically popular character that currently has something John Stewart does not have, a Netflix tv show going into it's fourth season. That is something you can start to build a foundation on.

Black Lightning hasn't had a single series last more than 13 issues, and that 13 issue run was during the comic book boom of the early 1990s, when the books had a much larger audience and Spawn outsold Batman and Superman. The Black Lightning IP wasn't properly designed, and so it lacks mass appeal. Static is better but has even worse rights issues, not to mention him being a generation below the Trinity in terms of character age, which makes it hard for in-universe characters to take him as serious. Plus Flash already has the lightning motif used in powers and emblem. At best, Black Lightning is on the level of Green Arrow, and I don't even think that's true. I say this as someone who own Black Lightning #1.

Once a Green Lantern actually takes off in the global mainstream, especially a black character, subsequent iterations would likely be the same, as that would be the most well known version. Hal Jordan is associated with a global flop, and WB's film division is hesitant to include characters from the franchise in major projects, for fear that it would scare off investors. For a trilogy, they would definitely maintain the same lead.

Also, John still appears in outside media:





And I don't see white or latin actors randomly saying they want to play Green Lantern or have it brought up in interviews.

As much as I like John, he isn’t the sole Green Lantern nor does he have ownership of the Green Lantern mythos. He still has to compete with Hal Jordan and recently Jessica Cruz as well. At any moment they can sub out John for one of the two mentioned above, and in the case of Jessica it’s a two for one (Latina and a woman). So I get why DC/Ridley would want to push Black Lightning instead. He’s an original creation, doesn’t have to compete with other versions and everything connects to him in the mythos (ie his daughters, enemies, powerset, setting...etc). I don’t think there’s any rights issues anymore either

I don't care if he "competes" since he can outcompete. There's a reason some GL's aren't even in contention for conversation. And despite not getting a push from DC, John has a large enduring fanbase. That's the definition of untapped potential.

[skyvolt2000]

I get what he's saying. BL has a better defined supporting cast and the social justice bent of the character provides a lot to dig into. It's a bit ironic; the Justice League cartoon made John a star and was the main reason he didn't fade away after the 90s, but in some ways I feel like later writers overdid the Marine background to the detriment of everything else. A lot of writers boil his entire character down to A) Veteran and B) Cries about Xanshi.

Now this John, this John would have a lot of potential in our current world and would be a good fit for the kind of story Ridley is telling.

DC is not ready for Ridley to do something like that in mainstream DC.


Ridley sort of did that in American Way books.

Black Lightning hasn't had a single series last more than 13 issues, and that 13 issue run was during the comic book boom of the early 1990s, when the books had a much larger audience and Spawn outsold Batman and Superman.

Like John's Mosaic that 90s series also ran foul of an editor.

[Samm]

Black Lightning hasn't had a single series last more than 13 issues, and that 13 issue run was during the comic book boom of the early 1990s, when the books had a much larger audience and Spawn outsold Batman and Superman. The Black Lightning IP wasn't properly designed, and so it lacks mass appeal. Static is better but has even worse rights issues, not to mention him being a generation below the Trinity in terms of character age, which makes it hard for in-universe characters to take him as serious. Plus Flash already has the lightning motif used in powers and emblem. At best, Black Lightning is on the level of Green Arrow, and I don't even think that's true. I say this as someone who own Black Lightning #1.

Once a Green Lantern actually takes off in the global mainstream, especially a black character, subsequent iterations would likely be the same, as that would be the most well known version. Hal Jordan is associated with a global flop, and WB's film division is hesitant to include characters from the franchise in major projects, for fear that it would scare off investors. For a trilogy, they would definitely maintain the same lead.

Also, John still appears in outside media:





And I don't see white or latin actors randomly saying they want to play Green Lantern or have it brought up in interviews.



I don't care if he "competes" since he can outcompete. There's a reason some GL's aren't even in contention for conversation. And despite not getting a push from DC, John has a large enduring fanbase. That's the definition of untapped potential.

Well I wish John luck but he certainly has a HUGE fight ahead of him. Hal Jordan has a very vocal fan base and Latinos are itching for a BIG superhero (Blue Beetle succeeding might somewhat lessen the demand for Jess but she’s built up a fan base too). Guess we’ll see.

Personally, DC shouldn’t try to strive for just one and instead continue pushing Black Lightning, while elevating John, Cyborg and Mr Terrific as well. Throw in Static, Icon plus for the women Rocket (adding to Amanda Waller, Bumblebee and Vixen) and now were taking!

Edit: Diane Guerrero just talked about playing Jessica Cruz in live action, Gina Rodriguez as well. And Jessica is also appearing outside of comics too

[The no face guy]

Black Lightning hasn't had a single series last more than 13 issues, and that 13 issue run was during the comic book boom of the early 1990s, when the books had a much larger audience and Spawn outsold Batman and Superman. The Black Lightning IP wasn't properly designed, and so it lacks mass appeal. Static is better but has even worse rights issues, not to mention him being a generation below the Trinity in terms of character age, which makes it hard for in-universe characters to take him as serious. Plus Flash already has the lightning motif used in powers and emblem. At best, Black Lightning is on the level of Green Arrow, and I don't even think that's true. I say this as someone who own Black Lightning #1.

Once a Green Lantern actually takes off in the global mainstream, especially a black character, subsequent iterations would likely be the same, as that would be the most well known version. Hal Jordan is associated with a global flop, and WB's film division is hesitant to include characters from the franchise in major projects, for fear that it would scare off investors. For a trilogy, they would definitely maintain the same lead.

Also, John still appears in outside media:

And I don't see white or latin actors randomly saying they want to play Green Lantern or have it brought up in interviews.

I don't care if he "competes" since he can outcompete. There's a reason some GL's aren't even in contention for conversation. And despite not getting a push from DC, John has a large enduring fanbase. That's the definition of untapped potential.

You are missing what we are saying, no one is saying don't push John Stewart, we are saying push John Stewart, but Black Lightning is the better choice for stability as DC's number one African American hero, because he can't be continually replaced.

Again Black Lightning is an original character, he doesn't have 5 or 6, duplicates with a large fanbase that can replace him at anytime. Duplicate heroes are brought in today for diversity reasons, they will never bring in a duplicate hero to replace one of the few big name African American heroes that DC has.

Black Lightning has a Netflix show going into its 4th season! that is a success! With Daniel Cherry as the new general manager, now would be the time to push the character commercially.

John Stewart hasn't had a comic in over 30 years, and his series only sold to issue 18, they are pretty much on par, in general African American titles have not sold historically well, Black Panther being the exception.

Green Lantern flopped for the same reason Justice League did, Warner Bros, makes extremely bad superhero movies. Your language is why duplicate heroes is a bad idea, it pits comic fan against comic fan.

Make Black Lightning a permanent member of the Justice League, especially when he has his own show, so when John Stewart gets circulated out by Green Lantern, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5, you always have a consistent popular African American superhero on the team

[Anthony Shaw]

If I'm being honest....

Had DC/Hanna Barbera established a better relationship with Tony Isabella, Black Lighting would have been a household name decades ago.

Potentially, Jeff could have been the premier black hero of DC at least since the 1980's, but the publisher finds ways to fail.


On a side note....

While I prefer John more than Jeff, I do think Stewart would be best serve as a key player in a cosmic line in the comics. DC should have put some effort in establishing at least three cosmic titles GLC starring John, LEGION led by Brianiac II, plus one more.

Having multiple GL's is part of the silver age mythology.

Beside having too many Earth GL's, they all have ill-defined roles within the franchise. When the franchise was hot, a better balance should have been established making each Earth GL unique to go along with character-driven arcs. Instead, fans just got events where preferred GL's got more kewl moments than others.

Despite having the same power-set, each will bring a different dynamic to a story. The GL working with the Justice League should have a different dynamic whether it be John, Hal, or Guy due to their unique personalities, and how they utilize will power through the rings.

[Holt]

With the actor now leveling accusations against the president of WB films, it's looking likely this is the end of the road for Cyborg in the movies. It'd be the perfect time to do something with John in the movies now as their big leading black hero.

[SecretWarrior]

You are missing what we are saying, no one is saying don't push John Stewart, we are saying push John Stewart, but Black Lightning is the better choice for stability as DC's number one African American hero, because he can't be continually replaced.

Again Black Lightning is an original character, he doesn't have 5 or 6, duplicates with a large fanbase that can replace him at anytime. Duplicate heroes are brought in today for diversity reasons, they will never bring in a duplicate hero to replace one of the few big name African American heroes that DC has.

Black Lightning has a Netflix show going into its 4th season! that is a success! With Daniel Cherry as the new general manager, now would be the time to push the character commercially.

John Stewart hasn't had a comic in over 30 years, and his series only sold to issue 18, they are pretty much on par, in general African American titles have not sold historically well, Black Panther being the exception.

Green Lantern flopped for the same reason Justice League did, Warner Bros, makes extremely bad superhero movies. Your language is why duplicate heroes is a bad idea, it pits comic fan against comic fan.

Make Black Lightning a permanent member of the Justice League, especially when he has his own show, so when John Stewart gets circulated out by Green Lantern, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5, you always have a consistent popular African American superhero on the team

Any hero can have a duplicate generated, from Miles Morales to Miss Marvel to Miss Martian to Supergirl to whatever. There have been multiple Ant-men, Captain Marvels, etc. The second or third Ant-Man is now the most well known, the 7th or 8th Captain Marvel is the most well known... "Stability" is a joke because any editor and writer can arbitrarily replace anyone. Black Lightning has two adult superhero daughters who could take over the identity or have kids, turning him into a grandfather character. Some characters do not take off regardless of push-- Black Lightning is one of those characters. If the IP had legs, it would've taken off or been successfully ripped off.

John is DC's only black hero who can be top 4-5 in popularity and status. The idea of a Fab 5 or Founding 5 that serves as core leadership and includes John makes sense. People just don't like the idea of a successful black hero on John's level, so they find roundabout ways to try to undermine him in the hopes that other minority characters will siphon off enough support to maintain Hal Jordan's place. Not going to work.



We're seeing clear evidence these days that Black-lead blockbusters are global money makers, but DC doesn't have their own. Jessica is a white latina. She's like Diana Prince, except with mixed European and South American ancestry. Translate her cartoons into Japanese, and no one could tell she's even partially non-white. John is undeniably a minority regardless of translation, making a firm statement to all viewers.