John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2020

[SecretWarrior]

[Samm]

Any hero can have a duplicate generated, from Miles Morales to Miss Marvel to Miss Martian to Supergirl to whatever. There have been multiple Ant-men, Captain Marvels, etc. The second or third Ant-Man is now the most well known, the 7th or 8th Captain Marvel is the most well known... "Stability" is a joke because any editor and writer can arbitrarily replace anyone. Black Lightning has two adult superhero daughters who could take over the identity or have kids, turning him into a grandfather character. Some characters do not take off regardless of push-- Black Lightning is one of those characters. If the IP had legs, it would've taken off or been successfully ripped off.

John is DC's only black hero who can be top 4-5 in popularity and status. The idea of a Fab 5 or Founding 5 that serves as core leadership and includes John makes sense. People just don't like the idea of a successful black hero on John's level, so they find roundabout ways to try to undermine him in the hopes that other minority characters will siphon off enough support to maintain Hal Jordan's place. Not going to work.



We're seeing clear evidence these days that Black-lead blockbusters are global money makers, but DC doesn't have their own. Jessica is a white latina. She's like Diana Prince, except with mixed European and South American ancestry. Translate her cartoons into Japanese, and no one could tell she's even partially non-white. John is undeniably a minority regardless of translation, making a firm statement to all viewers.

We’ve had this conversation before, Jessica isn’t White and she’s not seen as White! You can’t just move the goal post on race and suddenly claim that those who have Native American ancestry are now White. I’ve seen many Black American try to make that claim, call clearly Mestizo/Native people White when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Look at the above, she’s clearly not White... she’s darker than the White characters.

Like I said they could swoop in and replace John with Hal again (they did that for the past 20 years), Jessica/Kyle (to appeal to Latinos both in the USA and Latin America) or Simon Baz to appeal to the Middle East. John has competition that Jefferson or Vic or Michael do not. That being said I think it would be a good idea to keep John with the JL because he looks good with the other 4.

[skyvolt2000]

You are missing what we are saying, no one is saying don't push John Stewart, we are saying push John Stewart, but Black Lightning is the better choice for stability as DC's number one African American hero, because he can't be continually replaced.

Black Lightning has a Netflix show going into its 4th season! that is a success! With Daniel Cherry as the new general manager, now would be the time to push the character commercially.

John Stewart hasn't had a comic in over 30 years, and his series only sold to issue 18, they are pretty much on par, in general African American titles have not sold historically well, Black Panther being the exception.

Friendly reminder of African American lead books that lasted more than 18 issues.

Static, Icon, Hardware, Steel, SPAWN, Malcolm Dragon is now at issue 57 in Savage Dragon as a lead, Jason Rusch, Sam Wilson as Cap America, Batwing, Luke Cage, Miles, Cyborg (I know), Princeless and Moon Girl.
Rivers of London starring a black guy is on volume 7 (6 part mini series).

In some cases like at Valiant those books last x number of issues and then end. Shadow Man, Livewire and Quantum & Woody say HI. As does Noble at Lion Forge.

There are a lot of black characters who have more issues than some others who got pushes, tv shows and movies. Hi Antman & Star Girl.

Friendly reminder part of the reason you have those issues is STORES that didn't want to sell black lead books. Even Chuck Dixon complained about it. Because his book dealt with that.
Even Savage Dragon and Archie have dealt with that.

I think the complaint is when fans have done what is required of them-support be it comics, toys, shows or movies-there is an expectation or hope for more.

However when it comes to John Stewart (and even BL, Static and others) there is an EXCUSE or a BUT... for John.

Why is there a constant issue with this character?

Who is or was Dc scared of? I have seen folks get mad about Cherry's tweet. Want to know the one comment I have heard when it comes to John Stewart from folks.

"If Dc is not investing in him-they don't like money." That is from folks who don't buy comics saying that but they understand business.

[skyvolt2000]

Like I said they could swoop in and replace John with Hal again (they did that for the past 20 years), Jessica/Kyle (to appeal to Latinos both in the USA and Latin America) or Simon Baz to appeal to the Middle East. John has competition that Jefferson or Vic or Michael do not. That being said I think it would be a good idea to keep John with the JL because he looks good with the other 4.

Why not use all? Guardians of the Galaxy says hi.

Some companies do have region characters and stores.

There is nothing stopping DC from using Jessica to promote DC in Latino communities. Simon in the Middle East.

A brief example of this is Minyard Food Stores (now owned by Fiesta Mart)-depending on where you live you either got Minyard, Sack N Save or Carnival grocery stores. Carnival was promoted for the culturally diverse (Hispanic). Sack N Save was mainly in black neighborhoods. Here in Texas.

I think Disney has done this as well with some characters-Horace Horse Collar, Clara Bell Cow, Mickey's nephews and most of Donald's family were showcased more overseas than here.

Care Bears too-a bunch of them were created for the UK market and one that was barely seen here was shown more over there.

[The no face guy]

Any hero can have a duplicate generated, from Miles Morales to Miss Marvel to Miss Martian to Supergirl to whatever. There have been multiple Ant-men, Captain Marvels, etc. The second or third Ant-Man is now the most well known, the 7th or 8th Captain Marvel is the most well known... "Stability" is a joke because any editor and writer can arbitrarily replace anyone. Black Lightning has two adult superhero daughters who could take over the identity or have kids, turning him into a grandfather character. Some characters do not take off regardless of push-- Black Lightning is one of those characters. If the IP had legs, it would've taken off or been successfully ripped off.

John is DC's only black hero who can be top 4-5 in popularity and status. The idea of a Fab 5 or Founding 5 that serves as core leadership and includes John makes sense. People just don't like the idea of a successful black hero on John's level, so they find roundabout ways to try to undermine him in the hopes that other minority characters will siphon off enough support to maintain Hal Jordan's place. Not going to work.

We're seeing clear evidence these days that Black-lead blockbusters are global money makers, but DC doesn't have their own. Jessica is a white latina. She's like Diana Prince, except with mixed European and South American ancestry. Translate her cartoons into Japanese, and no one could tell she's even partially non-white. John is undeniably a minority regardless of translation, making a firm statement to all viewers.

Why are you so opposed to having Black Lightning permanent member of the Justice League? Surely it is better to have two African American males on the team, especially when one (John Stewart) is going to be circulated in and out of the league for other GL's regularly.

They are never going to make a Duplicate Hero for Black Lightning. Can you imagine the uproar if they replaced one of the few popular African American heroes with a duplicate, it's not going to happen.

Right now Black Lightning is more popular than John, because he's into his fourth season at Netflix, he was also the first Black superhero in DC to get his own series.

Black Lightning needs a title now! While his show is hot, and unlike John Stewart who will be replaced as GL as soon as is comic sales are low by Hal or Kyle, Black Lightning will just get cancelled and rebooted in 2 to 5 years because he is one of a kind, an all original, who will be a permanent fixture of the JLA.

I say push both John Stewart and Jefferson Pierce, give them their own titles, but don’t get upset when John is replaced in a few years times by another GL. That can’t happen with BL, because as stated, he’s one of a kind.

[Anthony Shaw]

You are untouchable with these images.

[Anthony Shaw]

Why are you so opposed to having Black Lightning permanent member of the Justice League? Surely it is better to have two African American males on the team, especially when one (John Stewart) is going to be circulated in and out of the league for other GL's regularly.

They are never going to make a Duplicate Hero for Black Lightning. Can you imagine the uproar if they replaced one of the few popular African American heroes with a duplicate, it's not going to happen.

Right now Black Lightning is more popular than John, because he's into his fourth season at Netflix, he was also the first Black superhero in DC to get his own series.

Black Lightning needs a title now! While his show is hot, and unlike John Stewart who will be replaced as GL as soon as is comic sales are low by Hal or Kyle, Black Lightning will just get cancelled and rebooted in 2 to 5 years because he is one of a kind, an all original, who will be a permanent fixture of the JLA.

I say push both John Stewart and Jefferson Pierce, give them their own titles, but don’t get upset when John is replaced in a few years times by another GL. That can’t happen with BL, because as stated, he’s one of a kind.

Both Jeff & John should be pushed.

However, Jeff is no longer one of a kind with super-powered daughters in the mix. Jeff can be replaced by one of them. The BL family dynamic becomes the Flash family dynamic where the main character can be switched out with a relative. In the case with Jeff, he can aged out of his role as a hero with teenage/adult offspring.

[The no face guy]

Both Jeff & John should be pushed.

However, Jeff is no longer one of a kind with super-powered daughters in the mix. Jeff can be replaced by one of them. The BL family dynamic becomes the Flash family dynamic where the main character can be switched out with a relative. In the case with Jeff, he can aged out of his role as a hero with teenage/adult offspring.

Yes both characters should be given their own titles, now preferably, but the difference is, is that BL doesn't have duplicate heroes with large fan bases to contend with. John, could be replaced either in GL title, or as we have seen with the JLA, by a number of other popular Green Lanterns with large fan bases, that doesn't exist for BL.

The argument was essentially it is better to have an original character as DC's number one African American hero, than a duplicate, because you don't have them waiting for their day in the background. (30 years for John Stewart) which is unfair to the fans.

Meanwhile Marvel plugs ahead, with Black Panther & Luke Cage, who are original heroes, who can be put up front and center at anytime, given a new title at anytime, because there is no duplicate competition, DC should follow suit.

[Cosmic Emerald 23]

Guess it's time to come back to the ol' stompin' grounds for old times sake.
Idk why there's such a big fuss going on here about Black Lightning being the premier black DC hero. As we've been over for years now, we've seen decades upon decades of evidence that supports weariness of John's stability. It's already been made painfully clear that a character can have all the potential and fanbase activity in the world, but it doesn't mean a damn thing if the company is not behind said character (ie John Stewart, or even Wally West). John fans have been vocal for years and all that was given were crumbs and false promises in favor of other lanterns, now we have even MORE lanterns to deal with. Hal and Jess are the two big competitors for the spotlight mainly in outside media because Hal checks the OG/"core of franchise" box, and Jess checks the female box with the Latina part being an added bonus.

Again, we've been over this for years now, Dc doesn't have the slightest idea how to handle the GL franchise, which is why we have like 10 earth lanterns now instead of developing the 4 they had. Also the franchise is not popular enough to sustain all those titles like Spiderman can, it's inevitable that whatever lantern in front is gonna be swapped out for whatever DC wants to push at the time as we saw with the launch of rebirth where Hal was replaced by Simon and Jess on the Justice League and then John replaced them later on. Yeah DC has a new gm that seems to be behind Stewart but I've learned to not hang my hat on stuff like that. You want stable black heroes at DC? You get to keep Black Lightning as a guaranteed lock and POSSIBLY John Stewart as an added bonus, but there lies the issue....."possibly".

[SecretWarrior]

We’ve had this conversation before, Jessica isn’t White and she’s not seen as White! You can’t just move the goal post on race and suddenly claim that those who have Native American ancestry are now White. I’ve seen many Black American try to make that claim, call clearly Mestizo/Native people White when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Look at the above, she’s clearly not White... she’s darker than the White characters.

Like I said they could swoop in and replace John with Hal again (they did that for the past 20 years), Jessica/Kyle (to appeal to Latinos both in the USA and Latin America) or Simon Baz to appeal to the Middle East. John has competition that Jefferson or Vic or Michael do not. That being said I think it would be a good idea to keep John with the JL because he looks good with the other 4.

Jessica is white Latina, like Taylor Lautner and Ariana Grande are white non-hispanic/non-latin.





Antonio Banderas was surprised when he wasn't considered white when moving to the U.S.

In Braziland other South American countries, Jessica Cruz would count as white.

I have a friend who uses the term "spicy whites," lol

Jessica's going to be prominent in the franchise, but I doubt she'll be treated as the lead.

[SecretWarrior]

Why are you so opposed to having Black Lightning permanent member of the Justice League? Surely it is better to have two African American males on the team, especially when one (John Stewart) is going to be circulated in and out of the league for other GL's regularly.

They are never going to make a Duplicate Hero for Black Lightning. Can you imagine the uproar if they replaced one of the few popular African American heroes with a duplicate, it's not going to happen.

Right now Black Lightning is more popular than John, because he's into his fourth season at Netflix, he was also the first Black superhero in DC to get his own series.

Black Lightning needs a title now! While his show is hot, and unlike John Stewart who will be replaced as GL as soon as is comic sales are low by Hal or Kyle, Black Lightning will just get cancelled and rebooted in 2 to 5 years because he is one of a kind, an all original, who will be a permanent fixture of the JLA.

I say push both John Stewart and Jefferson Pierce, give them their own titles, but don’t get upset when John is replaced in a few years times by another GL. That can’t happen with BL, because as stated, he’s one of a kind.

Guess it's time to come back to the ol' stompin' grounds for old times sake.
Idk why there's such a big fuss going on here about Black Lightning being the premier black DC hero. As we've been over for years now, we've seen decades upon decades of evidence that supports weariness of John's stability. It's already been made painfully clear that a character can have all the potential and fanbase activity in the world, but it doesn't mean a damn thing if the company is not behind said character (ie John Stewart, or even Wally West). John fans have been vocal for years and all that was given were crumbs and false promises in favor of other lanterns, now we have even MORE lanterns to deal with. Hal and Jess are the two big competitors for the spotlight mainly in outside media because Hal checks the OG/"core of franchise" box, and Jess checks the female box with the Latina part being an added bonus.

Again, we've been over this for years now, Dc doesn't have the slightest idea how to handle the GL franchise, which is why we have like 10 earth lanterns now instead of developing the 4 they had. Also the franchise is not popular enough to sustain all those titles like Spiderman can, it's inevitable that whatever lantern in front is gonna be swapped out for whatever DC wants to push at the time as we saw with the launch of rebirth where Hal was replaced by Simon and Jess on the Justice League and then John replaced them later on. Yeah DC has a new gm that seems to be behind Stewart but I've learned to not hang my hat on stuff like that. You want stable black heroes at DC? You get to keep Black Lightning as a guaranteed lock and POSSIBLY John Stewart as an added bonus, but there lies the issue....."possibly".

Yes both characters should be given their own titles, now preferably, but the difference is, is that BL doesn't have duplicate heroes with large fan bases to contend with. John, could be replaced either in GL title, or as we have seen with the JLA, by a number of other popular Green Lanterns with large fan bases, that doesn't exist for BL.

The argument was essentially it is better to have an original character as DC's number one African American hero, than a duplicate, because you don't have them waiting for their day in the background. (30 years for John Stewart) which is unfair to the fans.

Meanwhile Marvel plugs ahead, with Black Panther & Luke Cage, who are original heroes, who can be put up front and center at anytime, given a new title at anytime, because there is no duplicate competition, DC should follow suit.

Marvel didn't care when they made Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel as their premier female character. Do you really think she's going to be replaced at any time now that she's well known in the public consciousness?

You can have multiple minorities in the League, but we're pushing for a Black paragon decision maker on the level of the Trinity, not just Black b-listers following orders.

[SecretWarrior]

[Shockingjustice]

I like this, but isn't John supposed to be younger than Hal and Guy?

[Cosmic Emerald 23]

Marvel didn't care when they made Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel as their premier female character. Do you really think she's going to be replaced at any time now that she's well known in the public consciousness?

You can have multiple minorities in the League, but we're pushing for a Black paragon decision maker on the level of the Trinity, not just Black b-listers following orders.

The thing with Carol is that she doesn't have like 5 other active characters with the exact same powers/name ready to take her spot whenever the writers feel like it. Captain Marvel was always a singular character with one person holding the mantle at a time. Also, Marvel tried to manufacture Carol's importance and popularity over night to quickly put her in that spot without earning it, which proved to be a polarizing move at best as her comics consistently bomb (not necessarily unique to just her but bad for a "premier" character nonetheless). Not a single Captain Marvel has ever been all that iconic or important to the Marvel universe ever, but now all of a sudden she's the best thing since sliced bread? Gimme a break, Marvel.

I get what you mean and I want that too a WHOLE LOT, but they'd be better off making a brand new character from scratch at this point then, because DC has already proven that they're not interested in making John central to the GL mythos, and even THAT won't save him because Hal can't even guarantee his spot on the league anymore. I think we gotta face it, the GL franchise is an unstable mess with too many characters to accommodate. If one lantern is placed above the rest, then fans of others will be upset, just look at these threads. Even of the franchise was nuked and completely redone with all characters having equal importance to the mythos, they'd still be swapped out left and right because of that. If we want better black characters, then we should look to establish them in far more stable and streamlined franchises like Black Panther has done.

[Shockingjustice]

The thing with Carol is that she doesn't have like 5 other active characters with the exact same powers/name ready to take her spot whenever the writers feel like it. Captain Marvel was always a singular character with one person holding the mantle at a time. Also, Marvel tried to manufacture Carol's importance and popularity over night to quickly put her in that spot without earning it, which proved to be a polarizing move at best as her comics consistently bomb (not necessarily unique to just her but bad for a "premier" character nonetheless). Not a single Captain Marvel has ever been all that iconic or important to the Marvel universe ever, but now all of a sudden she's the best thing since sliced bread? Gimme a break, Marvel.

I get what you mean and I want that too a WHOLE LOT, but they'd be better off making a brand new character from scratch at this point then, because DC has already proven that they're not interested in making John central to the GL mythos, and even THAT won't save him because Hal can't even guarantee his spot on the league anymore. I think we gotta face it, the GL franchise is an unstable mess with too many characters to accommodate. If one lantern is placed above the rest, then fans of others will be upset, just look at these threads. Even of the franchise was nuked and completely redone with all characters having equal importance to the mythos, they'd still be swapped out left and right because of that. If we want better black characters, then we should look to establish them in far more stable and streamlined franchises like Black Panther has done.

People are upset in this thread because the only thing John Stewart is remembered for in comics is letting a planet blow up and his wife dying from his friends girlfriend. We aren't asking for him to replace Hal, we just want something that makes him more memorable. Even John Ridley remarks on how all he did was blow up a planet.

What we get instead is years of being in books written by Geoff Johns doing nothing, Even though Johns first green lantern book starred John Stewart, and people telling us in a John Stewart appreciation thread to not expect much for him and go support other black heroes.