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  1. #1726
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I forget where I saw it, but the Russo's claim they can't write powerful characters and don't know how to utilize or challenge them properly, and that's why they sidelined Vision so much and knee-capped Hulk and Thor. Given how they handled Thor in Infinity War I think they don't give themselves enough credit though.
    Russo brothers said that Thor during Endgame was the strongest version of Thor.

  2. #1727
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I forget where I saw it, but the Russo's claim they can't write powerful characters and don't know how to utilize or challenge them properly, and that's why they sidelined Vision so much and knee-capped Hulk and Thor. Given how they handled Thor in Infinity War I think they don't give themselves enough credit though.
    I think they can do overpowered characters for brief, cool, moments like we got with Thor in Infinity War or Captain Marvel in Endgame but not on a consistent basis.
    Anyway, I'm not worried about Love & Thunder making the mistakes Aaron did. Half the people Aaron screwed up are dead in the MCU and Endgame already did Unworthy. What I do worry about is Love & Thunder making the same mistakes Taikiti did in Ragnarok, and driving the comedy in so hard all the emotional impact is sucked out.
    I think this is a more valid worry, especially with the MCU predilection toward constant jokes.
    L&T is gonna be a "girl power" movie, but that's not a bad thing unless you're scared of strong women (and if you are grow the f**k up). And before the hammer was destroyed in Ragnarok we did see Taikiti have it fly around on its own (when Thor is fighting Surtur's minions), so we'll probably get more of that. And the comedy bent for Thor's character will likely continue in some way, though not necessarily in the same form as Endgame's broken idiot or Ragnarok's fratboy idiot. Taikiti and Hemsworth both love comedy so we're damn unlikely to dodge that bullet.
    I'm not against "girl power," but it's like the same issue I have with how Aaron handled Jane, I'm not a fan of it at the expense of Thor himself. Like, hey, Valkyrie and Sif can be these super powerful bad@#$%# and I'll be totally down for that, but I'd rather it not make Thor look like an incompetent idiot by comparison.

    I didn't like him just giving the kingship over to Valkyrie at the end of Endgame.
    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    Russo brothers said that Thor during Endgame was the strongest version of Thor.
    I have may...doubts .

  3. #1728
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I have may...doubts .
    I'm pretty sure directors and writes don't look at PL like we do

    which is great in a long run.

  4. #1729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I have may...doubts .
    Yup me too, hulks reasoning for Thor not to snap contradicts this
    Cyclops was right

  5. #1730
    Fantastic Member PlatinumThorns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciscostudent561 View Post
    Which odd considering they were chosen to depict the avengers battle a cosmic entity in Thanos, oh well.
    Sad part is minus some of the nerfing, Battle on Titan was spectacular.
    The final battle in endgame was woefully dissappointing.
    Really? Captain America with Mjolnir Vs. Thanos was pretty much Iconic.

  6. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumThorns View Post
    Really? Captain America with Mjolnir Vs. Thanos was pretty much Iconic.
    A huge missed opportunity.
    Thats something you're supposed to build up towards.
    It happened on sucha whim. In fact i would go as far as to say the way that cap lifted mjolnir is the epitome of why eg was underwhelming

    First like i said they shoulda built up to it with say some basic storytelling techniques like foreshadowing, within the context of the movie.

    Second it shoulda happened at a dire point in the battle, with all the other heroes beat and Thanos toying with Cap.. he slaps caps away, monologues and cap crawls to Mjornir and Cap reminisces to the foreshadowed event and lifts the hammer and brings a thunderbolt crashing down on the titan...

    Sigh, talk about a ruined moment... cause then afger that he coulda proclaimed Avengers assemble.

    Im not saying the way i jst put it together was the only way , just as long as it was built right
    Cyclops was right

  7. #1732
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think they can do overpowered characters for brief, cool, moments like we got with Thor in Infinity War or Captain Marvel in Endgame but not on a consistent basis.
    I dont think they give themselves enough credit. I mean, Infinity War is basically Thanos' movie, and he's interesting, compelling, challenged emotionally, and even challenged physically....and that dude was literally throwing moons at people.

    I think the Russos *can* do high powered characters. Maybe it's harder for them, but they can do it when they have to.

    I think this is a more valid worry, especially with the MCU predilection toward constant jokes.

    I'm not against "girl power," but it's like the same issue I have with how Aaron handled Jane, I'm not a fan of it at the expense of Thor himself. Like, hey, Valkyrie and Sif can be these super powerful bad@#$%# and I'll be totally down for that, but I'd rather it not make Thor look like an incompetent idiot by comparison.
    I don't want any character made less than they are for the benefit of another. But I'm less worried about Taikiti screwing Thor over for Jane's benefit than I am worried about Taikiti's heavy handed humor sucking the gravitas out of everything.

    This is a "passing the torch" and "girl power" kinda thing so I do expect to see Jane do some damn cool stuff, and because Hemsworth loves doing comedy I do expect to see some "pratfalls" from Thor. But as long as Thor doesn't obviously and painfully job for Jane's benefit I'll be satisfied. The MCU has rarely given Thor his due and he's been a joke since he got hit by Jane's van in the first film, so it's not like Thor taking one for Jane's benefit will be anything new. MCU Thor is far removed from comic Thor, and always has been. As long as Taikiti doesn't go overboard, I'll live with it.

    I didn't like him just giving the kingship over to Valkyrie at the end of Endgame.
    Just one more example of the MCU providing a really cool concept and then moving on without exploring it. Hell, I'm still pissed that we never got to spend any time with the New Avengers. The one single scene with them (Civil War) doesn't even use the whole roster.

    See, this is why I want Fiege and Marvel to work out a few "flashback" OGN's set in the MCU that can explore the stuff the movies skipped over.

    I have may...doubts .
    Eh, I'm sure duel wielding Thor was more powerful in Endgame than at any other point in the films....on paper. But what's he doing? Fighting a guy we know is vastly superior physically, or fighting low-end minions *I* could kill with a good rifle. The only way to really show that Thor was more powerful would have been to have him throwing lightning and hurricanes around the battlefield....and the movies have often shied away from that side of his abilities for some reason.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  8. #1733
    Incredible Member Wall-Crawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciscostudent561 View Post
    A huge missed opportunity.
    Thats something you're supposed to build up towards.
    It happened on sucha whim. In fact i would go as far as to say the way that cap lifted mjolnir is the epitome of why eg was underwhelming

    First like i said they shoulda built up to it with say some basic storytelling techniques like foreshadowing, within the context of the movie.

    Second it shoulda happened at a dire point in the battle, with all the other heroes beat and Thanos toying with Cap.. he slaps caps away, monologues and cap crawls to Mjornir and Cap reminisces to the foreshadowed event and lifts the hammer and brings a thunderbolt crashing down on the titan...

    Sigh, talk about a ruined moment... cause then afger that he coulda proclaimed Avengers assemble.

    Im not saying the way i jst put it together was the only way , just as long as it was built right
    No offense but aside from the foreshadowing, your version doesn't sound nearly as good as what we got in the film and takes away the importance of the portals scene and the proclamation of "Avengers Assemble" which is the single most epic moment in the MCU. Captain America lifting Mjolnir and fighting Thanos is iconic, hailed and loved worldwide, if you don't like it that's fine, it's your opinion, as it is mine liking it, but saying it as if it was a "fact" that they didn't put the scene right is not the way to go.

  9. #1734
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont think they give themselves enough credit. I mean, Infinity War is basically Thanos' movie, and he's interesting, compelling, challenged emotionally, and even challenged physically....and that dude was literally throwing moons at people.

    I think the Russos *can* do high powered characters. Maybe it's harder for them, but they can do it when they have to.



    I don't want any character made less than they are for the benefit of another. But I'm less worried about Taikiti screwing Thor over for Jane's benefit than I am worried about Taikiti's heavy handed humor sucking the gravitas out of everything.

    This is a "passing the torch" and "girl power" kinda thing so I do expect to see Jane do some damn cool stuff, and because Hemsworth loves doing comedy I do expect to see some "pratfalls" from Thor. But as long as Thor doesn't obviously and painfully job for Jane's benefit I'll be satisfied. The MCU has rarely given Thor his due and he's been a joke since he got hit by Jane's van in the first film, so it's not like Thor taking one for Jane's benefit will be anything new. MCU Thor is far removed from comic Thor, and always has been. As long as Taikiti doesn't go overboard, I'll live with it.



    Just one more example of the MCU providing a really cool concept and then moving on without exploring it. Hell, I'm still pissed that we never got to spend any time with the New Avengers. The one single scene with them (Civil War) doesn't even use the whole roster.

    See, this is why I want Fiege and Marvel to work out a few "flashback" OGN's set in the MCU that can explore the stuff the movies skipped over.



    Eh, I'm sure duel wielding Thor was more powerful in Endgame than at any other point in the films....on paper. But what's he doing? Fighting a guy we know is vastly superior physically, or fighting low-end minions *I* could kill with a good rifle. The only way to really show that Thor was more powerful would have been to have him throwing lightning and hurricanes around the battlefield....and the movies have often shied away from that side of his abilities for some reason.
    The MCU has wasted quite a few interesting concepts imo.

    Every character above Spider-Man's tier has nerfed abilities in the MCU. Just ask any Odin, Thanos or Ultron fan.
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 06-29-2020 at 01:25 PM.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    New Dreadstar comic book https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-graphic-novel
    Cosmic Marvel is best Marvel
    #RememberThor
    Marvel please stop using Thanos.

  10. #1735
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont think they give themselves enough credit. I mean, Infinity War is basically Thanos' movie, and he's interesting, compelling, challenged emotionally, and even challenged physically....and that dude was literally throwing moons at people.

    I think the Russos *can* do high powered characters. Maybe it's harder for them, but they can do it when they have to.
    I think they make more allowances for the villains so the heroes can come off more of an underdog.
    I don't want any character made less than they are for the benefit of another. But I'm less worried about Taikiti screwing Thor over for Jane's benefit than I am worried about Taikiti's heavy handed humor sucking the gravitas out of everything.

    This is a "passing the torch" and "girl power" kinda thing so I do expect to see Jane do some damn cool stuff, and because Hemsworth loves doing comedy I do expect to see some "pratfalls" from Thor. But as long as Thor doesn't obviously and painfully job for Jane's benefit I'll be satisfied. The MCU has rarely given Thor his due and he's been a joke since he got hit by Jane's van in the first film, so it's not like Thor taking one for Jane's benefit will be anything new. MCU Thor is far removed from comic Thor, and always has been. As long as Taikiti doesn't go overboard, I'll live with it.
    It'd be kind of hilarious if we don't get comic!Jane Thor either .

    I mean, as it is she might get a blonde wig/hair when she transforms but probably not the whole acting like Thor part of the transformation. Even the cartoon didn't do that (which I was actually a little disappointed in, but there was a lot I was disappointed in regarding how they handled Jane in Avengers: Secret Wars).

    I'm hoping she's not an instantly amazing Thor and more on the level of the new JSA in Stargirl.
    Just one more example of the MCU providing a really cool concept and then moving on without exploring it. Hell, I'm still pissed that we never got to spend any time with the New Avengers. The one single scene with them (Civil War) doesn't even use the whole roster.

    See, this is why I want Fiege and Marvel to work out a few "flashback" OGN's set in the MCU that can explore the stuff the movies skipped over.
    There's a lot of stuff in the MCU that's left underdeveloped or undercooked because of all the time-skipping around and every movie needing to be an "event" level story for the character/property involved.
    Eh, I'm sure duel wielding Thor was more powerful in Endgame than at any other point in the films....on paper. But what's he doing? Fighting a guy we know is vastly superior physically, or fighting low-end minions *I* could kill with a good rifle. The only way to really show that Thor was more powerful would have been to have him throwing lightning and hurricanes around the battlefield....and the movies have often shied away from that side of his abilities for some reason.
    Infinity War Thor with Stormbreaker felt on par with Thanos...Endgame Thor? Not so much.

  11. #1736
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    Russo brothers said that Thor during Endgame was the strongest version of Thor.
    I heard that too, but considering the condition he was in physically that just does not scan at all

    And his feats were better in other films like him dropping thanos and tanking the star to make storm breaker

    I know that's what they said, but it isn't what they shown
    Last edited by kilderkin; 06-29-2020 at 04:24 PM.

  12. #1737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think they make more allowances for the villains so the heroes can come off more of an underdog.

    It'd be kind of hilarious if we don't get comic!Jane Thor either .

    I mean, as it is she might get a blonde wig/hair when she transforms but probably not the whole acting like Thor part of the transformation. Even the cartoon didn't do that (which I was actually a little disappointed in, but there was a lot I was disappointed in regarding how they handled Jane in Avengers: Secret Wars).

    I'm hoping she's not an instantly amazing Thor and more on the level of the new JSA in Stargirl.

    There's a lot of stuff in the MCU that's left underdeveloped or undercooked because of all the time-skipping around and every movie needing to be an "event" level story for the character/property involved.

    Infinity War Thor with Stormbreaker felt on par with Thanos...Endgame Thor? Not so much.
    Agreed, in fact he had him beaten

    Tactics cost him, not power

  13. #1738
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    My only real concern about L and T aside from the things I've already seen about Thor in other films, is that I have no interest in Natalie Portman as Jane since it's been so let my since she was properly part of the MCU

    Really feels like a nothing character to me

    Now if they had maybe given the hammer to the lead Dora or maybe Valkyrie I'd be much more interested

    I guess I just never rated portmans foster
    Last edited by kilderkin; 06-30-2020 at 07:30 AM.

  14. #1739
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    I heard that too, but considering the condition he was in physically that just does not scan at all

    And his feats were better in other films like him dropping thanos and tanking the star to make storm breaker

    I know that's what they said, but it isn't what they shown
    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    Agreed, in fact he had him beaten

    Tactics cost him, not power
    I don't think they look at feats at all which is fine tbh.

    I'll just focus on the comic one.

    MCU doesn't interest me anymore.
    Last edited by GodThor; 06-29-2020 at 05:51 PM.

  15. #1740
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think they make more allowances for the villains so the heroes can come off more of an underdog.
    Certainly, but they still write it. If they can write "powerful" for Thanos, they can do it for the heroes.

    I have faith in you, Russo's! You can write powerful protagonists if you try!

    It'd be kind of hilarious if we don't get comic!Jane Thor either .
    To a degree we won't be. Or at least the character beats will be a little different; there's no Odin to bitch about, no Warriors Three to show up, Thor's worthy......but I'm sure she'll find other ways to be obnoxious.

    I'm hoping she's not an instantly amazing Thor and more on the level of the new JSA in Stargirl.
    I'd like the same thing....but I don't think we're gonna get it. I think they're gonna want to move the story along, get to the punching, and use the "worthy" enchantment as an excuse to explain why she's so badass out of the gate; power *and skill* of Thor. Sadly, in this I expect the film to mirror the comics quite a bit. Might be one of the few places where the plots really align, but I doubt we get a "training montage" much less real screen time dedicated to Jane learning.

    There's a lot of stuff in the MCU that's left underdeveloped or undercooked because of all the time-skipping around and every movie needing to be an "event" level story for the character/property involved.
    Yeah, and it keeps things from getting stale. Encourages people to watch each film too, so they don't miss stuff. But still. There's so much we never got to see. I'm telling ya, a OGN that actually got a little effort (unlike those bad prequel comics they do) would sell. Some of those DC OGN's have sold quite well, and with the marketing power of the MCU behind it, a "missing chapter" MCU OGN would put some damn solid money in the bank.

    Infinity War Thor with Stormbreaker felt on par with Thanos...Endgame Thor? Not so much.
    I don't disagree. Now, keeping in mind that the first time Thor fought Thanos he got his ass completely beat to hell, and the second and third times he sucker punched Thanos, I do think the last fight went pretty well for Thor, at least in comparison. He held his own better than Tony and Steve (before Steve picked up Mjolnir anyway) and there was a time or two Thor almost got the killing blow. But that's thin praise, especially when his planned "big moment" was all the way back at the end of Infinity War and Tony and Steve both got their big moments right there in Endgame's final sequences (Thor being such a mess through Endgame didnt help the optics any either). So yeah, I believe the Russo's intent was for Thor to be at an all-time power high, but they really didn't sell it. Just like how their intent was for Hulk to refuse to come out because he was tired of Banner's bullsh*t, but it ended up looking like Hulk was just afraid.

    I feel like if they had just put a big storm and a bunch of lightning strikes into that last fight, the idea of Thor being more powerful would've been clear. Typical of the MCU to ignore and downplay Thor's abilities.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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